2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[knowyourenemy]

Here's the original quotes. LeBron was obviously talking about bench guys, 9th-12th in the rotation:



He also name-dropped Raymond Felton, Michael Beasley, and Dahntay fucking Jones as examples of veteran bodies that can help you get through the grind of a regular season.

James added the team needs “a [bleeping] playmaker. I’m not saying you can just go find one, like you can go outside and see trees. I didn’t say that.”

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Because I listened to the actual words that came out of LeBron's mouth.

This is the problem. Everyone gets their news from sensationalized headlines and pontificating pundits instead of paying attention to the actual source.

There's your mistake IMO.
Lets see how it plays out, then we'll see.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Strictly my opinion, but I don't think its any coincidence that both he and Wade went the route they did at basically the same time.

I think Wade could be had without the Cavs giving up any major assets.
I believe the issue is what it would cost Gilbert next season, which would be a fortune adding 25M base plus taxes.

i dont think you understand how that works- how would they go about getting wade? only way would be for them to send out comparable money- and chicago isnt taking shumpert and frye- and even that wouldnt be enough salary.

thats why the Cavs cant make a trade for an Anthony or Wade or whoever.

 

[knowyourenemy]

His specific examples were Raymond Felton, Michael Beasley, and Dahntay Jones. I'll let you decide if he was talking about a star.

Was LeBron absent during this offseason? He has lobbied for the front office to sign or re-sign players in the past. Beasley played in 20 games last year. Suddenly he would have been a great signing? Raymond Felton had a terrible year last year and he's playing well this year. It's amazing how LeBron cherry picked cheap players who are having solid seasons. No one knows that going into the season. As far as Jones, the Cavaliers signed him and waived him. He hasn't played elsewhere since.

The team has a bunch of players that fit that mold -- Richard Jefferson, Mike Dunleavy/Kyle Korver, Channing Frye, Birdman, James Jones. Some of them work out and some of them don't. It's weak for James to look back on the offseason with hindsight and suggest they could have made stronger players for specific aging, mediocre players who happen to be having solid seasons this year.

 

[gordontrue]

Was LeBron absent during this offseason? He has lobbied for the front office to sign or re-sign players in the past. Beasley played in 20 games last year. Suddenly he would have been a great signing? Raymond Felton had a terrible year last year and he's playing well this year. It's amazing how LeBron cherry picked cheap players who are having solid seasons. No one knows that going into the season. As far as Jones, the Cavaliers signed him and waived him. He hasn't played elsewhere since.

The team has a bunch of players that fit that mold -- Richard Jefferson, Mike Dunleavy/Kyle Korver, Channing Frye, Birdman, James Jones. Some of them work out and some of them don't. It's weak for James to look back on the offseason with hindsight and suggest they could have made stronger players for specific aging, mediocre players who happen to be having solid seasons this year.

I mean, yeah, I agree.

The fact is the Cavs are dealing with multiple injury issues on top of an already incomplete roster. They are hurting for bodies, especially veteran bodies. Its nothing that's going to impact the playoffs much, but it certainly helps getting through the reg season, which I think is his point.


This is just pure speculation, and who knows... but maybe LeBron was vocal about wanting some veteran depth back in the offseason. Just min vet guys, or exception-level guys. I could see Griffin wanting to wait for mid-season because a lot more options open up between trades and teams that aren't working out blowing up, etc. It also gives them a chance to see how Felder/Liggins/McRae do. So maybe Griffin convinced him to be patient and let them find the depth mid-season. IF that happened (and its nothing but a guess)... I could see LeBron getting mad when the losses start to pile up that they haven't filled out the roster yet.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I mean, yeah, I agree.

The fact is the Cavs are dealing with multiple injury issues on top of an already incomplete roster. They are hurting for bodies, especially veteran bodies. Its nothing that's going to impact the playoffs much, but it certainly helps getting through the reg season, which I think is his point.


This is just pure speculation, and who knows... but maybe LeBron was vocal about wanting some veteran depth back in the offseason. Just min vet guys, or exception-level guys. I could see Griffin wanting to wait for mid-season because a lot more options open up between trades and teams that aren't working out blowing up, etc. It also gives them a chance to see how Felder/Liggins/McRae do. So maybe Griffin convinced him to be patient and let them find the depth mid-season. IF that happened (and its nothing but a guess)... I could see LeBron getting mad when the losses start to pile up that they haven't filled out the roster yet.

The market also may not be what Griffin expected it to be. 11 non-playoff teams are within 4.5 games of a playoff seed. Some of those teams are desperate to make the playoffs to at least placate the fanbase (Knicks, maybe the Heat?, Detroit, Sacramento, Portland, Dallas, New Orleans) and some are up-and-coming teams that want to see what their team can do (Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Orlando, Minnesota.) There may not be many teams that will deal role players to a team like Cleveland in exchange for virtually nothing. Take a look at the T.J. McConnell rumors. Who would have thought that the 76ers would be turning down trade offers for him? But Cleveland allegedly offered Jordan McRae, which is a joke of an offer, and they were probably laughed of the phone.

The perfect guy for them to trade for would be someone like Lou Williams. He's in the last year of his deal, the Lakers are in full tank mode, and he's a legitimate playmaker/scorer that can light it up from anywhere on the court. But he's got a $7 million salary . . . so they really can't trade for him even though he's a pretty good player with a team-friendly contract.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I mean, yeah, I agree.

The fact is the Cavs are dealing with multiple injury issues on top of an already incomplete roster. They are hurting for bodies, especially veteran bodies. Its nothing that's going to impact the playoffs much, but it certainly helps getting through the reg season, which I think is his point.


This is just pure speculation, and who knows... but maybe LeBron was vocal about wanting some veteran depth back in the offseason. Just min vet guys, or exception-level guys. I could see Griffin wanting to wait for mid-season because a lot more options open up between trades and teams that aren't working out blowing up, etc. It also gives them a chance to see how Felder/Liggins/McRae do. So maybe Griffin convinced him to be patient and let them find the depth mid-season. IF that happened (and its nothing but a guess)... I could see LeBron getting mad when the losses start to pile up that they haven't filled out the roster yet.

thats the thing

they wanted to keep developmental spots open for Felder and McRae as they think down the line those guys can help.

Once Mo and Anderson went down- that took away from the healthy bodies on the roster- not that Mo and Anderson are guys thare gonna play much during the playoffs- but at least they would have been competent players to suck up some regular season minutes.

Combine that with Jr Smith going down- and the Cavs keeping James Jones as almost a coach- the depth all of a sudden became an issue--- then put on top the Korver deal- and integrating him- and it became even more of an issue.

If Mo Williams had been healthy and Jr had not gotten hurt- we are not even having this discussion that is for sure.

 

[trojanfan12]

LeBron joining the Heat and Cavs- is a lot different then joining a ready-made championship team. As we all said a couple weeks ago- there probably has never been a team with 4 top 20 players. Durant joining a ready-made championship team is MILES different than joining a Cavs team

What a load of crap. Lebron didn't join the Cavs team that went to the lottery 4 straight years, he joined the Cavs team that had 2 all stars in Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love. You can spare me the "Love signed after Lebron" crap too. Without Love being all but assured of coming, Lebron stays in Miami.

There's no difference.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The market also may not be what Griffin expected it to be. 11 non-playoff teams are within 4.5 games of a playoff seed. Some of those teams are desperate to make the playoffs to at least placate the fanbase (Knicks, maybe the Heat?, Detroit, Sacramento, Portland, Dallas, New Orleans) and some are up-and-coming teams that want to see what their team can do (Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Orlando, Minnesota.) There may not be many teams that will deal role players to a team like Cleveland in exchange for virtually nothing. Take a look at the T.J. McConnell rumors. Who would have thought that the 76ers would be turning down trade offers for him? But Cleveland allegedly offered Jordan McRae, which is a joke of an offer, and they were probably laughed of the phone.

The perfect guy for them to trade for would be someone like Lou Williams. He's in the last year of his deal, the Lakers are in full tank mode, and he's a legitimate playmaker/scorer that can light it up from anywhere on the court. But he's got a $7 million salary . . . so they really can't trade for him even though he's a pretty good player with a team-friendly contract.

yah

some clowns on here just act like its a given the Cavs can go out and get a veteran point guard that can contribute- that teams are just aching to dump a guy like that---- when that is certainly NOT the case- especially- like you said- a ton of teams are either A. still i nthe playoff race or B. have to get up to the salary cap floor.

I wish it was as easy as calling the Nuggets and asking for Jameer Nelson--- but they have no incentive to trade him and actually NEED his contract to get to the min. salary line.

 

[WiggyRuss]

What a load of crap. Lebron didn't join the Cavs team that went to the lottery 4 straight years, he joined the Cavs team that had 2 all stars in Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love. You can spare me the "Love signed after Lebron" crap too. Without Love being all but assured of coming, Lebron stays in Miami.

There's no difference.

we are just gonna have to agree to disagree

i think that it is different joining two All Stars that have never made the playoffs before--- as opposed to joining 3 All Stars that had just won a title and got back to the Finals.

maybe you dont think that is different. Its highly doubtful we can ever agree on that.

 

[gordontrue]

You can spare me the "Love signed after Lebron" crap too. Without Love being all but assured of coming, Lebron stays in Miami.

Minnesota was literally still trying to work out trades with other teams after LeBron signed. Minnesota had a say in all of this too.

You can call it crap all you want, doesn't change the fact that LeBron absolutely signed without assurance of Love being on the team.

 

[trojanfan12]

we are just gonna have to agree to disagree

i think that it is different joining two All Stars that have never made the playoffs before--- as opposed to joining 3 All Stars that had just won a title and got back to the Finals.

maybe you dont think that is different. Its highly doubtful we can ever agree on that.

An all star team is an all star and that's what Lebron joined in Cleveland. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that if Love and Kyrie had both been on the Cavs before Lebron joined instead of Love coming with Lebron, he would have been joining a team that had made the playoffs.

 

[trojanfan12]

Minnesota was literally still trying to work out trades with other teams after LeBron signed. Minnesota had a say in all of this too.

You can call it crap all you want, doesn't change the fact that LeBron absolutely signed without assurance of Love being on the team.

Not buying it. If the Love trade didn't work out, they'd have gotten someone else. Also, if you think there wasn't something already in place when Lebron signed, then you're being pretty naive. It's not as if Lebron signed early in FA and then the Cavs started working on a trade. The trade was being worked on while Lebron and the Cavs were still negotiating Lebron's deal.

You know as well as I do that there is no way in hell that Lebron returns without some kind of assurance that he'd get what he wanted.

 

[gordontrue]

Not buying it. If the Love trade didn't work out, they'd have gotten someone else. Also, if you think there wasn't something already in place when Lebron signed, then you're being pretty naive. It's not as if Lebron signed early in FA and then the Cavs started working on a trade. The trade was being worked on while Lebron and the Cavs were still negotiating Lebron's deal.

You know as well as I do that there is no way in hell that Lebron returns without some kind of assurance that he'd get what he wanted.

What I'll concede to is that LeBron knew that it was a very real possibility. And like you said, he knew that even if it didn't work out... they were in a good position to find someone else. The Cavs had LeBron & Kryie and a good amount of leftover money... they were gonna find someone to fill out a big 3... even if they had to wait till the next off-season. I agree that was a big part of LeBron being willing to make the move.

It wasn't assured that they would have Love though.

 

[gordontrue]

Whatever move the Cavs do make in the next couple weeks will probably seem underwhelming to nba fans in general.

The moves will be more about depth and getting through the regular season than anything. I'll be surprised if we see anything that dramatically alters the Cavs playoff rotation.

 

[trojanfan12]

What I'll concede to is that LeBron knew that it was a very real possibility. And like you said, he knew that even if it didn't work out... they were in a good position to find someone else. The Cavs had LeBron & Kryie and a good amount of leftover money... they were gonna find someone to fill out a big 3... even if they had to wait till the next off-season. I agree that was a big part of LeBron being willing to make the move.

It wasn't assured that they would have Love though.

That's the point. It really didn't matter if Love was assured or not, some all star level talent was coming. So, either way, he joined an all star team. Just because KD went to one that was already established and didn't have to wait for anyone else, doesn't change the fact that both joined all star teams.

 

[trojanfan12]

Whatever move the Cavs do make in the next couple weeks will probably seem underwhelming to nba fans in general.

The moves will be more about depth and getting through the regular season than anything. I'll be surprised if we see anything that dramatically alters the Cavs playoff rotation.

Agree. Considering they need a big and a backup PG, I wonder if they are regretting letting Delly and Mozgov go?

I wouldn't expect them to give Mozgov the money that the Lakers gave him, but I'd bet they could have worked something out with him. He likely wouldn't be part of the playoff rotation (unless his not being part of it last year was because he came back too early from his injury), but they could use him for depth in the regular season.

 

[bksballer89]

Whatever move the Cavs do make in the next couple weeks will probably seem underwhelming to nba fans in general.

The moves will be more about depth and getting through the regular season than anything. I'll be surprised if we see anything that dramatically alters the Cavs playoff rotation.

Rumors are that they're bringing Smush Parker in for a workout

 

[gordontrue]

That's the point. It really didn't matter if Love was assured or not, some all star level talent was coming. So, either way, he joined an all star team. Just because KD went to one that was already established and didn't have to wait for anyone else, doesn't change the fact that both joined all star teams.

I agree with that. But I also think there is a difference between joining up with stars to try to start something new vs joining up with a team of stars that has already been tearing up the league.

For the record, I am totally fine with either one. Players should do what they want and they have a limited subset of opportunities to chose from. But I do think the perception of the two situations can be different for a lot of people.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i dont think you understand how that works- how would they go about getting wade? only way would be for them to send out comparable money- and chicago isnt taking shumpert and frye- and even that wouldnt be enough salary.

thats why the Cavs cant make a trade for an Anthony or Wade or whoever.

Wade can force a buyout.