Why go to 2nd for third out???

[ElTexan]

Edwards induces fielder's choice

Scenario: Two outs, runner on first, routine grounder to the left side.

The infielder will almost always go to 2nd for the third out. It's my contention that they should go to 1st. I show an example above of when the throw to 2nd goes as routinely as possible. Even in that example, you see 2B hurrying to beat the runner, trying to catch the ball and find the bag at the same time as the runner is sliding in right behind.

Add to that, what if the 2B is playing deep, or the runner gets a great jump, it gets dicier.

This is MLB, not little league. A throw to 1st is longer, but just as routine as a throw to second.

To recap:
2b might be playing deep
Runner might get a great jump
2b has a much longer path to the base than 1b
2b has to be catching the ball while searching for the bag
Runner is almost always sliding in as the play is made at 1b

You take all those variables out if you just take that routine grounder and make a routine throw to first for the third out.

FYI: The Cubs lost a game this year on a play to 2nd where 2b was playing deep and the runner beat the throw to 2nd.

 

[Omar 382]

I didn't read your whole post, but I think I understand your question. It's just a quicker throw, and if the throw is a bad throw, then the the right fielder can back the throw up much better than at first base.

Also, I guess it's just been happening so long with ~zero repercussions/problems that it will continue to happen, much like smokeless/chewing/dipping tobacco. I mean Tony Gwynn and a few others have been the only ones to die from it. It will just take a bigger impact to change something that's been going on in the game for almost 150 years

 

[ElTexan]

Here's the Cubs loss:
Must C: LA wins by a 'toenail'

 

[calsnowskier]

Here's the Cubs loss:
Must C: LA wins by a 'toenail'

And, of course, there has never been a game that ended on an error throw to first.

Proof!

 

[broncosmitty]

"Take the easy out"

Shortest throw falls under that. Play could be close, go to first.

Humans make errors though.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

People make mistakes. He should have known that Gonzalez is a horrible runner and the throw to 1st would have been easier. It really just depends on how good the guys on the bases are at running.

 

[Shanemansj13]

It's common sense. You take the shorter throw, the easier out. You learn that when you are young, it's fundamentals. Now if you have a speedy runner at first sometimes the right baseball play is to first, but it all depends on the circumstances, but 99% of the time if you pick the ball clean you go to second.

 

[ElTexan]

"Take the easy out"

Shortest throw falls under that. Play could be close, go to first.

Humans make errors though.

The claim is that the other is easier. You can't just announce something as evidence. You have to make an argument.
I've laid mine out as to why the other is easier.

You bring up shorter throw, and I bring up a half dozen variables that could go wrong in the throw to 2nd.

So let's take the shirt throw argument: Similarly, taking an 18" step is three times as long as taking a 6" step... but both are trivial for a person to do.

 

[ElTexan]

It's common sense. You take the shorter throw, the easier out. You learn that when you are young, it's fundamentals. Now if you have a speedy runner at first sometimes the right baseball play is to first, but it all depends on the circumstances, but 99% of the time if you pick the ball clean you go to second.

That's my point. You learn it when young because a throw to first is an adventure for a child. It's not for an MLB player

 

[ElTexan]

People make mistakes. He should have known that Gonzalez is a horrible runner and the throw to 1st would have been easier. It really just depends on how good the guys on the bases are at running.

So just take all those variables out and decision making, -and just throw a routine throw to first. That's my entire point

 

[broncosmitty]

The claim is that the other is easier. You can't just announce something as evidence. You have to make an argument.
I've laid mine out as to why the other is easier.

You bring up shorter throw, and I bring up a half dozen variables that could go wrong in the throw to 2nd.

So let's take the shirt throw argument: Similarly, taking an 18" step is three times as long as taking a 6" step... but both are trivial for a person to do.

There's no argument.

You take the easy out. Which in the case you're whining about is the shortest throw. Unless the defender feels it may be a close play with the short throw. Then you go to first.

 

[tducey]

i'd go to wherever I thought I could get the 3rd out.

 

[JohnU]

The only times I see a problem with the short throw to 2nd is when the fielders are being lazy or careless.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

The variables don't really matter here. If the runner is fast and gets a big jump, the SS is more likely to just go to first anyway. Most big league shortstops have great internal clocks and visualize the play even before it happens.
As for the distance to the bag and catching the ball on the fly, it's irrelevant. Middle infielders are always much better athletically than 1b and can make up the distance faster. They also practice the play thousands of times in their careers and rarely have trouble with it. I think those cancel themselves out.
As for the routine grounder, I've seen a lot more throwing errors on the routine ones than the hard ones over the years. Very often, when a SS has extra time to think, they nonchalant the throw and it tails into the baseline or sort hops or worse, flies over everything. Even on out plays, how many hundred times a year do we see the 1b digging balls out of the dirt or getting pulled off the bag and having to tag the runner anyway? I don't know the actual stats on it but I would bet there are far more throwing errors from short to first than there are to second. I just don't think you can say it's easier based on a half dozen ifs and maybes.
Ok, the Cubs lost a game because of your scenario. So be it. We have all seen many more games lost because of other scenarios over the years. A throwing error to first on that longer throw puts guys at 2nd and 3rd and the floodgates open. That one incident doesn't change the percentages enough to make the argument valid, imo.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

As if the game thread wasn't enough...

SportsHoopla's resident dumbass creates a thread rehashing his stupidity.

Congrats Texan

 

[ElTexan]

Oh. Guess what just happened to the Dodgers to bring Bryce FUCKING Harper to the plate as the tying run with two outs instead of ending the inning

 

[ElTexan]

...and now a walk to load them, and a hit by pitch to score a run

 

[ElTexan]

And now a hit for another 2 scores to tie the ELIMINATION game

 

[ElTexan]

@Nosferatu

 

[Nosferatu]

Oh. Guess what just happened to the Dodgers to bring Bryce FUCKING Harper to the plate as the tying run with two outs instead of ending the inning

Do you honestly think he had a play at first? Fucking clown you are.