I still trust Scot.

[kbso83432]

Yes his first two free agent hauls have been major disappointments. But none of those deals have really killed us cap wise like in the past. He just swung and missed on some mid-level guys. He did close the deal on Norman though.

When it comes to the draft I was one of the one's on the draft a d-lineman train. I knew that the crew we had was not going to get it done. I must admit I didn't see it being THIS bad. However, I did a little research and Butler, Billings, Robinson, Reed, Adolphus Washington, Jones, Ridgeway, are doing nothing. Now Doctson really hasn't done much but be hurt, and that depends on who you ask, but I love that we have someone in place for Garcon who I love but think will go elsewhere. Not to mention we are going to have a hard time convincing Jackson to come back when he could choose to chase a ring with a Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, or teams like Carolina or Minnesota.

The guy we missed on was Williams from the 15 draft, but I love having Scherff too. Gone are the days of Chester and Polumbus being a turnstile over on the right side. Kirk has helped with his timing as opposed to RG3, but Scherff has been a much needed upgrade over there and will be in the pro bowl before it's all said and done. Getting Gurley would have been nice, but remember, he was coming off a nasty knee injury and no one knew Morris was going to fall off a cliff at that time.

There are some real nice NT's in free agency this year. Poe, Ian Williams, Hankins from NY, Brandon Williams from BLT who is 340, not to mention Short who I expect to be franchised. But then again Jackson and Norman fell into our laps so you never know.

I am not advocating letting Garcon go. He is money on 3rd down, tough and our best down field blocker, but taking his 10 mil and getting a NT in here and drafting a stud DE this year is possible because of the Doctson pick.

 

[Stymietee]

I wonder what SM expectations were going in for this year's team? If as I suspect he was/is well aware of the now obvious weaknesses, I wish he had taken a more proactive approach and had a short fire sale in trading next season's projected losses in personnel for future picks. Jackson or likely Garcon, possibly Kerrigan and or Paul come to mind. This right now is a bad team, especially on defense. Expectations were high in some quarters, but not in my neck of the woods. (6-10) Some are convinced that we are in fact in the middle of a rebuild and I have no argument with that. However, if you combine those projected (traded for) picks and cap savings with whatever draft position we have by finishing somewhere in the 6-10 range plus our already projected cap money, that rebuild would be hastened as a result.

BTW: I said the same thing in the year before they let A. Morris go. Dude had value to some team but of course we held on too long and lost him to FA without a return. I also like those defensive guys that you've listed (especially Poe and Williams) at good prices, may have to overpay those two though.

 

[Breed]

Stymie,

Your scenario sounds like it has a whole lotta moving parts, and needs a couple of ifs, with an I hope so thrown in. In short, it too fantasy footballish. Far as whether the Skins are in rebuild mode. I'd opine they've been there, regardless if they needed to be or not ever since Joe Gibbs came back. I know this is a novel idea and all, but perhaps we could rebuild via the draft ad FA. As opposed to wheelin n dealin which the Skins have done plenty of since Gibbs 2.0 with not a whole lotta success.

You're right about the Skins being a bad defensive team, I think the offense has potential. A good way though to make the Skins an even worse team is to trade away the few solid players we have and what? An extra 3rd and 4th rd pick in next's year draft? Or are you thinking the players you mentioned would garner 1st and 2nd rd picks?

kbso,

Garcon is due 10 mill next year eh. I can't see too many teams paying him that. Hopefully he and the Skins can work something out. I hope we keep Djax as well. I can envision what you speak about Djax. But I can also envision him staying in DC if Kirk gets his shit together. I would like to see what Ross can do

Whether its FA or the draft though. A stout big ugly is mandatory for acquiring this year.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm still firmly in SM's camp and it is way to early to draw any conclussions. But the truth is the early returns are not good. He didn't appear to improve this team much at all, his only good free agents of the last two years fell in his lap with DJax and Norman. Even with all the picks given away in the Griffin trade the most productive players on this team were drafted by Shanny. Scherff is rock solid, I watch him a lot. But is anyone seeing greatness worthy of the 5th overall pick there at this point?

 

[kbso83432]

One could make a case for Williams and not be wrong. I'm not sure Scot was even here when we got Jax. That was Bruce. Correct me if I'm wrong. Scot's best player available approach will hurt us immediately but probably help us in the long run.

This team passed on Peterson because we needed a safety. Landry has come and gone. We passed on J.J. Watt too. What if Doctson blows up next year and we are sitting here with Billings or one.of the other NT's that havent panned out yet.

Like Scherff, Crowder should be a 1,000 yard receiver next year and was an absolute steal. Gotta think Docston and Sua will be key cogs moving forward for the next 10 plus. Jarrett was another steal, but just took a vicious shot.in that Cowboys game.

You could do worse than Matt Jones in the 3rd, and Preston is definitely in a sophomore slump but we all saw what he is capable of down the stretch last year.

Not to mention him bringing in Nsekhe, Dunbar, Blackmon, Foster, Hopkins, etc....basically of the scrap heap.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Washington Redskins All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

You have to view this in terms of the Redskins history with the draft & how they previously built the team. Until the last several years just about everything appears to have been focused on near term & the Redskins draft history has been atrocious. From the early 2000s - 2010 the Redskins had very little to show as a result. You had some standout picks like Williams or Sean Taylor but just about nothing else.

Shanahan had what appeared to be an excellent draft in 2011. However - as it turn out only Kerrigan & Paul remain. Allen had a good draft in 2014 & SM had an even better one in 2015. It is way too early to judge the 2016 draft. However - they are retaining most of their picks, and it is likely that the Redskins will find major contributors in the draft moving forward. They obviously can do better in free agency.

I truly believe that they are in the middle of a rebuild & you need to give SM probably at least 2 more years. The current team is younger & has talent in some spots & holes in others - that should be expected of a rebuilding team. Getting rid of RG3 over the offseason was the first step in making a commitment to the long term. We need to ride this out a little longer regardless of the results this season (and enough already with the "woulda shouldas" - you can't go back in time).

HTTR

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm still firmly in SM's camp and it is way to early to draw any conclussions. But the truth is the early returns are not good. He didn't appear to improve this team much at all, his only good free agents of the last two years fell in his lap with DJax and Norman. Even with all the picks given away in the Griffin trade the most productive players on this team were drafted by Shanny. Scherff is rock solid, I watch him a lot. But is anyone seeing greatness worthy of the 5th overall pick there at this point?

Let me clarify, he did not improve this team that much since last year. And I know there will be Scherff defenders and even though I brought it up I hope it does not turn into another Scherff debate that takes over the thread.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Let me clarify, he did not improve this team that much since last year. And I know there will be Scherff defenders and even though I brought it up I hope it does not turn into another Scherff debate that takes over the thread.

Agree & again you can't really judge drafts until probably at least 3 years after they occur.

 

[skinsdad62]

Just how much do you think Williams would've helped this d/line ? So we end up the 20th ranked defense

 

[kbso83432]

The RG3 trade and the Mora cap penalty set this team back 5 to 6 years. Not sure about you guys but I'm prepared for a slow but steady rebuild. Scot must do better in FA though. I've stated that in previous threads.

 

[Stymietee]

Anyone remember wht SM's first statement about this team was? Well, I do....he said that his no.1 priority was to make this team bigger everywhere and that he envisioned a team that physically wore down opponents. The problem with his vision and reality is that he doesn't have coaches that fit his philosophy. Think about that for a second, big physical offensive lines are able to run the ball effectively, but is that really JG's game? Big physical defenses make others work hard to gain yardage, but given what we have, can anyone really say that were it not for a few fortunate turnovers, this team could be 0-4? That gets too far away from the issue though. The current problem for this management group is a poor fit in philosophy. By now everyone should be convinced that JG wants a quick strike offense that becomes more lethal when a few nice runs are sprinkled in, not a ball control pound it out type and our offensive team kinda reflects that. Interestingly enough, I'm not sure if anyone knows what JB's defensive philosophy is and on that side of the ball the players reflect that perfectly!

 

[kbso83432]

I think Barry knows he doesn't have anywhere near the talent to stop people so he's just coaching his players to force turnovers. You bring up an interesting point about Gruden and Scot's different visions on the make-up of this team.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Been concerned about potential differing philosophies for Jay and Scot for awhile now myself. Mentioned it a few times already.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I think we got spoiled by a late run last year and FORGOT that we have a ways to go before we are competitive year in and out.

We really saw a lot of production from our 2015 rookie class, have had some really unfortunate injuries that have hindered the growth process and haven't done particularly well with most of our FA pickups to fill in the gaps where talent lacked.

See enough positives that I'm ok with our progress given that context.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Just speculating here, but really think Barry likely pushed for Reyes over Paea (cuz of the SD connection) and I think that was likely a mistake.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Compilation of all of Scots FA signings...






THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Washington Redskins safety Jeron Johnson was one of the worst free-agent signings of the Scot McCloughan era.




Posted: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 2:17 pm

By MICHAEL PHILLIPS
Richmond Times-Dispatch

Washington Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan has made no secret of his desire to build through the draft. However, free agency is a necessity in the NFL, and he's made a number of significant signings.

Signings ranked worst to best:

Busts:

S Jeron Johnson - McCloughan brought Johnson from Seattle, where he was a bit player. Expectations were high in Washington but he quickly fell out of favor.

DL Kendall Reyes - Like Johnson, this one was a big whiff from the front office, which expected much more out of Reyes.

S David Bruton - A special-teams specialist in Denver, Bruton won the starting safety job during training camp in D.C., but struggled once the season began.

DL Stephen Paea - The defensive lineman never broke through in Washington, and now plays in Cleveland, where he’s a regular in their rotation.

NT Terrance Knighton - Knighton wasn’t a total bust, but “Pot Roast” fell far short of the hype.

CB Chris Culliver - The cornerback played for McCloughan in San Francisco. He was productive in 2015, but never reached the value of the contract he was given. Culliver tore his ACL at the end of the season.

To be determined:

LB Terence Garvin - A 2016 signing, Garvin hasn’t had the opportunity to prove himself either way on the field yet.

OL Vinston Painter - Signed the week before the first game of this season, Painter is still acclimating.

DL Cullen Jenkins - Like Painter, the jury is still out on Jenkins, who was signed right before the 2016 season began.

OLB Junior Galette - The jury is still out on Galette, who has missed both his seasons in Washington with Achilles injuries.

Positive signings:

CB Greg Toler - The Redskins have already gotten more than they bargained for out of Toler, who wasn’t projected to make the roster but has slid into a regular role because of injuries.

TE Vernon Davis - Through four games, Davis has been a bit player in the Redskins offense, but an effective one.

S Deshazor Everett - A second-year player who was cut by Tampa Bay, Everett has carved himself out a role on special teams as a hard hitter.

DL Ziggy Hood - Early returns are positive on the veteran Hood, who played in Pittsburgh, but he’s part of a run defense that has struggled.

DL Ricky Jean Francois - Not an every-down player, but a solid player who is about as good as you can expect on the open market.

CB Will Blackmon - Blackmon was the duct tape that held Washington’s secondary together last year, but has struggled this year in his move to safety.

OL Ty Nsekhe - The veteran’s job is to back up Trent Williams, so he doesn’t get much action, but coaches rave about his raw talent.

LB Mason Foster - A mid-season addition, Foster won a starting job from Perry Riley and has held on to it ever since.

CB Josh Norman - The decision to sign Norman wasn’t hard, but getting the job done was a tribute to the front office. He’s already paying dividends

 

[kbso83432]

Of course I have no proof, just pure speculation but I still think Barry stood on the table for Reyes and Dan forced Scot''s hand on the RG3 extension.

 

[Stymietee]

What we do not know, and likely never will, is how much influence our HC and Coordinators have on which players SM drafts or signs. I tend to think that internally SM has less say than we want to believe.......right now. This coaching staff hired by JG, who himself was hired by BA, must be given every opportunity to succeed on their own terms. To me that means that the GM has a duty to get them the guys that they want. Now, he might agree that this player or that one are nice pieces based on his scouting considerations, but if we measure his stated philosophical vision to that of the HC, there can only be one conclusion...Gruden's future and the future of his hires won't succeed or fail because of an uncooperative GM.

 

[j_y19]

Compilation of all of Scots FA signings...






THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Washington Redskins safety Jeron Johnson was one of the worst free-agent signings of the Scot McCloughan era.




Posted: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 2:17 pm

By MICHAEL PHILLIPS
Richmond Times-Dispatch

Washington Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan has made no secret of his desire to build through the draft. However, free agency is a necessity in the NFL, and he's made a number of significant signings.

Signings ranked worst to best:

Busts:

S Jeron Johnson - McCloughan brought Johnson from Seattle, where he was a bit player. Expectations were high in Washington but he quickly fell out of favor.

DL Kendall Reyes - Like Johnson, this one was a big whiff from the front office, which expected much more out of Reyes.

S David Bruton - A special-teams specialist in Denver, Bruton won the starting safety job during training camp in D.C., but struggled once the season began.

DL Stephen Paea - The defensive lineman never broke through in Washington, and now plays in Cleveland, where he’s a regular in their rotation.

NT Terrance Knighton - Knighton wasn’t a total bust, but “Pot Roast” fell far short of the hype.

CB Chris Culliver - The cornerback played for McCloughan in San Francisco. He was productive in 2015, but never reached the value of the contract he was given. Culliver tore his ACL at the end of the season.

To be determined:

LB Terence Garvin - A 2016 signing, Garvin hasn’t had the opportunity to prove himself either way on the field yet.

OL Vinston Painter - Signed the week before the first game of this season, Painter is still acclimating.

DL Cullen Jenkins - Like Painter, the jury is still out on Jenkins, who was signed right before the 2016 season began.

OLB Junior Galette - The jury is still out on Galette, who has missed both his seasons in Washington with Achilles injuries.

Positive signings:

CB Greg Toler - The Redskins have already gotten more than they bargained for out of Toler, who wasn’t projected to make the roster but has slid into a regular role because of injuries.

TE Vernon Davis - Through four games, Davis has been a bit player in the Redskins offense, but an effective one.

S Deshazor Everett - A second-year player who was cut by Tampa Bay, Everett has carved himself out a role on special teams as a hard hitter.

DL Ziggy Hood - Early returns are positive on the veteran Hood, who played in Pittsburgh, but he’s part of a run defense that has struggled.

DL Ricky Jean Francois - Not an every-down player, but a solid player who is about as good as you can expect on the open market.

CB Will Blackmon - Blackmon was the duct tape that held Washington’s secondary together last year, but has struggled this year in his move to safety.

OL Ty Nsekhe - The veteran’s job is to back up Trent Williams, so he doesn’t get much action, but coaches rave about his raw talent.

LB Mason Foster - A mid-season addition, Foster won a starting job from Perry Riley and has held on to it ever since.

CB Josh Norman - The decision to sign Norman wasn’t hard, but getting the job done was a tribute to the front office. He’s already paying dividends

What is interesting about this is every one of SM's FA signings is on defense, with the exception of Nsekhe, Davis, and Jackson. Think about that for a second.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Compilation of all of Scots FA signings...






THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Washington Redskins safety Jeron Johnson was one of the worst free-agent signings of the Scot McCloughan era.




Posted: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 2:17 pm

By MICHAEL PHILLIPS
Richmond Times-Dispatch

Washington Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan has made no secret of his desire to build through the draft. However, free agency is a necessity in the NFL, and he's made a number of significant signings.

Signings ranked worst to best:

Busts:

S Jeron Johnson - McCloughan brought Johnson from Seattle, where he was a bit player. Expectations were high in Washington but he quickly fell out of favor.

DL Kendall Reyes - Like Johnson, this one was a big whiff from the front office, which expected much more out of Reyes.

S David Bruton - A special-teams specialist in Denver, Bruton won the starting safety job during training camp in D.C., but struggled once the season began.

DL Stephen Paea - The defensive lineman never broke through in Washington, and now plays in Cleveland, where he’s a regular in their rotation.

NT Terrance Knighton - Knighton wasn’t a total bust, but “Pot Roast” fell far short of the hype.

CB Chris Culliver - The cornerback played for McCloughan in San Francisco. He was productive in 2015, but never reached the value of the contract he was given. Culliver tore his ACL at the end of the season.

To be determined:

LB Terence Garvin - A 2016 signing, Garvin hasn’t had the opportunity to prove himself either way on the field yet.

OL Vinston Painter - Signed the week before the first game of this season, Painter is still acclimating.

DL Cullen Jenkins - Like Painter, the jury is still out on Jenkins, who was signed right before the 2016 season began.

OLB Junior Galette - The jury is still out on Galette, who has missed both his seasons in Washington with Achilles injuries.

Positive signings:

CB Greg Toler - The Redskins have already gotten more than they bargained for out of Toler, who wasn’t projected to make the roster but has slid into a regular role because of injuries.

TE Vernon Davis - Through four games, Davis has been a bit player in the Redskins offense, but an effective one.

S Deshazor Everett - A second-year player who was cut by Tampa Bay, Everett has carved himself out a role on special teams as a hard hitter.

DL Ziggy Hood - Early returns are positive on the veteran Hood, who played in Pittsburgh, but he’s part of a run defense that has struggled.

DL Ricky Jean Francois - Not an every-down player, but a solid player who is about as good as you can expect on the open market.

CB Will Blackmon - Blackmon was the duct tape that held Washington’s secondary together last year, but has struggled this year in his move to safety.

OL Ty Nsekhe - The veteran’s job is to back up Trent Williams, so he doesn’t get much action, but coaches rave about his raw talent.

LB Mason Foster - A mid-season addition, Foster won a starting job from Perry Riley and has held on to it ever since.

CB Josh Norman - The decision to sign Norman wasn’t hard, but getting the job done was a tribute to the front office. He’s already paying dividends

I think that list is a way too forgiving. Just how much of a contribution have many of these "hits" really made? Beating out Perry Riley, while still being well below average, is not much of a "hit" in my opion. Norman fell in his lap, the players they targeted and signed to nice deals with the plan for them to play key roles just haven't worked out.