has it already begun?

[SoCalWizFan]

I disagree. The defense got carved up by a rookie 4th round draft pick QB and and a rookie RB. Both of these guys played in just their 2nd game and looked like Pro Bowlers. KC played terrible but the defense was awful.

If SM had a brain, he would draft DL, OL, DL, OL, DL, OL next year. For heaven sakes, we are terrible up front.

Are you also suggesting that the O line was also terrible yesterday? Totally disagree. They gave Cousins loads of time to throw the ball. The rushing was not great, but it was also not awful. The O line perhaps needs some tweaking but certainly not a total overhaul like the D line.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Wow, you guys sound like us (Eagle fans). No one thought the Skins would win the East last year, I thought it was a fluke, and Tony Romo getting hurt did not help. The Eagles did their part by giving up on Chip Kelly midway thru the year. SM needs an opportunity to make some drafts. You can't fix everything in a couple of drafts. I was never sold on KC. I thought he was playing above his skill level last year.
As a fan of an opposing team, I am sorry to say, this time, I think the boy owner, got it right with SM. I am not sure about Gruden, but I think he may end up being a decent coach.
I would love to see Danny Boy fire both of them because that would suggest he is going back to his old ways and the Skins would be irrelevant again.

Great post & probably because it is an objective one & not one motivated by emotions (I include myself in that area). If they fire both the GM & coach after this season then they will basically be at square one & there is no guarantee that they find suitable replacements. Heck - Snyder then may be inclined to hire the next big sexy thing at that pt & dig an even bigger hole.

Might as well stick it out at least one more season with SM & probably Gruden regardless of the results and rants of the fans & media. Cousins future will depend on how he plays for the remainder of this season.

 

[j_y19]

Great post & probably because it is an objective one & not one motivated by emotions (I include myself in that area). If they fire both the GM & coach after this season then they will basically be at square one & there is no guarantee that they find suitable replacements. Heck - Snyder then may be inclined to hire the next big sexy thing at that pt & dig an even bigger hole.

Might as well stick it out at least one more season with SM & probably Gruden regardless of the results and rants of the fans & media. Cousins future will depend on how he plays for the remainder of this season.

Nothing is ever gained by firing a coach mid season. I do disagree with your post about the Oline a bit. The center of our line cannot maintain a pocket. Licht is continually pushed back into KCs face so the pocket is not always clean. It inhibits KC's ability to step into many passes, leading to poor mechanics and missed throws, primary dirt balls. However, KC is also not doing a good job of moving in the pocket so he deserves some of the blame.

I know many view Callahan as a OL coaching guru. I haven't seen it yet. When he turns a Long or Moses into consistent, productive players, I'll change my mind.

 

[Mskins]

Are you also suggesting that the O line was also terrible yesterday? Totally disagree. They gave Cousins loads of time to throw the ball. The rushing was not great, but it was also not awful. The O line perhaps needs some tweaking but certainly not a total overhaul like the D line.

I agree . Matt Jones had 4.7 yards per carry and Cousins has been sacked only twice in 89 pass attempts. The OL is fine but they certainly could find better than Lichtensteiger at OC.

 

[Breed]

Wow, overreaction thread here. People should take a deep breath and calm down. Yes it was a very disappointing loss and starting the season 0-2 is clearly no the best way to repeat as NFC East champion but asking for heads to roll just 2 games into the season is just ridiculous. That time might come soon enough if they can't improve but let them finish the season first. That loss was a collective effort, from the players to the coaching staff, and they all better wake up quickly for sure.

With a below average defense and a QB who showed last year he's at his best when they have a good balance between run and pass I'm really surprised we are not running the football more than 15 times per game. I thought the plan was to build an identity as a smashmouth running team, right ? So far we are seeing them trying to be "the greatest show on turf" and it's not gonna work. I saw someone blamed Matt Jones but 61 yards and a TD on 13 carries isn't that bad. The main problem is that he had only 13 carries.

I would expect them to return to what worked last year. Be more balanced in the playcalling, eat the clock and prevent our defense to spend too much time on the field.

Players are openly commenting as well as showing frustration on the shitty play of Cousins. And while I haven't heard it. It was reported Gruden publicly voiced his dissatisfaction with Cousins play as well. I think in part, the frustration (and this is my biggest issue with KC even if its not theirs) has to come from Cousins missing what looks to be like some very simple reads that were there to be made. Vernon Davis being wide open last week for an easy TD. Yet Cuz throws to Reed surrounded by 3 players and the ball is picked. Multiple plays yesterday involving multiple players being wide open and Cuz missing them or getting the ball there very late/not at all.

Right now Cousins is playing like a freakin starry-eyed rookie that's dazed and confused. Everyone knows Cuz doesn't have the game's strongest arm. Its adequate and he's shown he can be an effective deep ball passer. The thing is he has a window of when he must throw the ball on a deep route. It really has never been a big issue the last couple seasons. He's done whatever it is he's needed to do to get the ball deep. This year he's been outright terrible in that aspect.

Now you can talk all about progressions and going through his reads and keys. The fact is, players at times have to make adjustments or cheat a little bit. Hell, its just a fact of life for everyone in some aspect of their life. Cuz isn't even looking for the deep strike it seems or he's looking very late.

Again, I'm not calling for any players to be benched or any coach or GM to be fired. And Cuz is not being benched anytime soon. Not making 19 million dollars this year he ain't. But its time for him to pull his head out his ass and start playing QB like he's showed last year...................unless last year was a complete and total fluke. And its time for coaches to stop crossing their fingers and hoping the same ol' shit they are calling works this this time.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Nothing is ever gained by firing a coach mid season. I do disagree with your post about the Oline a bit. The center of our line cannot maintain a pocket. Licht is continually pushed back into KCs face so the pocket is not always clean. It inhibits KC's ability to step into many passes, leading to poor mechanics and missed throws, primary dirt balls. However, KC is also not doing a good job of moving in the pocket so he deserves some of the blame.

I know many view Callahan as a OL coaching guru. I haven't seen it yet. When he turns a Long or Moses into consistent, productive players, I'll change my mind.

OK - perhaps but I would consider that tweaking & not an overall. I guess that my main pt is that they don't need to draft O lineman in bulk, but yes you are correct in that they need a new center.

 

[Mskins]

Breed, no doubt Cousins isn't playing well and I'm not defending him. To me he's just a younger version of Ryan Fitzpatrick, nothing more. But I want him to play a full season and then we will be able to judge. I sure hope he shows me wrong and turn out to be a franchise QB but I have serious doubt, especially if you ask him to carry the team on his shoulders and throw 45 times per game. That's not who he is.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Its not an overreaction to be calling KC out for his play. It is an overreaction to be calling for his benching or the firing of anyone just yet.

Oh I totally agree. The problem here Kirk Cousins is all we have, there is no Plan B other than starting over with another QB. Again. That is why the reaction to Kirk's play is not an overreaction at all. It's completely understandable.

There is no reason why a QB in this era of the NFL should not be able to stand back behind good protection and throw the ball 45 times on a team with this many weapons. If he can't do this then he is useless as far as long term plans are concerned, he is not the answer. And that is what is so upsetting. This isn't a young QB anymore, that excuse ship has sailed. He is in year 5, he has had plenty of time to be groomed and he has had 32 games to show who he is. Sadly this is who he is and as a result we are screwed.

 

[Stymietee]

[QUOTE="Breed, post: 8921174, member

Again, I'm not calling for any players to be benched or any coach or GM to be fired. And Cuz is not being benched anytime soon. Not making 19 million dollars this year he ain't. But its time for him to pull his head out his ass and start playing QB like he's showed last year...................unless last year was a complete and total fluke. And its time for coaches to stop crossing their fingers and hoping the same ol' shit they are calling works this this time.[/QUOTE]

Let me ask this question, Considering most people had expectations that KC would necessarily have to step up his game thus becoming the franchise player based upon these known factors:

1. A head coach who clearly believes in a pass heavy offensive scheme (Arena league and Bengals history)
2. A suspect running game from a season ago.
3. A developing offensive line.
4. A front office that essentially is paying him a one year prove it deal.

The question(s) are, was that honestly a realistic position to take in asking him to do more than he already proved that he was able to do?.......Are we now seeing that it is better to limit his game to what we know he can do instead of taking chances on his ability or inability to perform otherwise?.....Were you bothered by the on-field report that after the int. Kirk was inattentive to was being said to him, instead looking skyward and towards the ground?.....What do you believe that dissatisfaction (Gruden, Garcon so far) on the field and in the locker room will have on his confidence? Finally, Is it possible that Kirk doesn't have his head up his ass, but is doing his best, albeit under pressure? (he's playing for a huge payday) Thanks!!

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

[QUOTE="Breed, post: 8921174, member

Again, I'm not calling for any players to be benched or any coach or GM to be fired. And Cuz is not being benched anytime soon. Not making 19 million dollars this year he ain't. But its time for him to pull his head out his ass and start playing QB like he's showed last year...................unless last year was a complete and total fluke. And its time for coaches to stop crossing their fingers and hoping the same ol' shit they are calling works this this time.

Let me ask this question, Considering most people had expectations that KC would necessarily have to step up his game thus becoming the franchise player based upon these known factors:

1. A head coach who clearly believes in a pass heavy offensive scheme (Arena league and Bengals history)
2. A suspect running game from a season ago.
3. A developing offensive line.
4. A front office that essentially is paying him a one year prove it deal.

The question(s) are, was that honestly a realistic position to take in asking him to do more than he already proved that he was able to do?.......Are we now seeing that it is better to limit his game to what we know he can do instead of taking chances on his ability or inability to perform otherwise?.....Were you bothered by the on-field report that after the int. Kirk was inattentive to was being said to him, instead looking skyward and towards the ground?.....What do you believe that dissatisfaction (Gruden, Garcon so far) on the field and in the locker room will have on his confidence? Finally, Is it possible that Kirk doesn't have his head up his ass, but is doing his best, albeit under pressure? (he's playing for a huge payday) Thanks!![/QUOTE]

As I said in another thread I don't think it is unreasonable to ask our QB of the future to play well enough to lead us to a win or 2 against a team with a winning record. Again this is year 5, the "young QB" excuse is no longer valid. This was a "show me" year. So show me.

If he is a QB who will always need the perfect situation around him then he's not much of a QB. For all the negative you pointed out I can counter by noting that his pass protection has been close to great. Even when it kind of broke down like it did against the infamous 3 man rush, throw out of the end zone against Pittsburg Kirk needs to read the pocket better and make a play. He panicked and left points on the field. Again. In addition to good protection he has perhaps the best weapons of any QB in the league. How many short throws behind the first down mark did those guys turn into first downs already in 2 games? His running game average 4.7 YPC yesterday. It was hardly a liability.

 

[Stymietee]

Let me ask this question, Considering most people had expectations that KC would necessarily have to step up his game thus becoming the franchise player based upon these known factors:

1. A head coach who clearly believes in a pass heavy offensive scheme (Arena league and Bengals history)
2. A suspect running game from a season ago.
3. A developing offensive line.
4. A front office that essentially is paying him a one year prove it deal.

The question(s) are, was that honestly a realistic position to take in asking him to do more than he already proved that he was able to do?.......Are we now seeing that it is better to limit his game to what we know he can do instead of taking chances on his ability or inability to perform otherwise?.....Were you bothered by the on-field report that after the int. Kirk was inattentive to was being said to him, instead looking skyward and towards the ground?.....What do you believe that dissatisfaction (Gruden, Garcon so far) on the field and in the locker room will have on his confidence? Finally, Is it possible that Kirk doesn't have his head up his ass, but is doing his best, albeit under pressure? (he's playing for a huge payday) Thanks!!

As I said in another thread I don't think it is unreasonable to ask our QB of the future to play well enough to lead us to a win or 2 against a team with a winning record. Again this is year 5, the "young QB" excuse is no longer valid. This was a "show me" year. So show me.

If he is a QB who will always need the perfect situation around him then he's not much of a QB. For all the negative you pointed out I can counter by noting that his pass protection has been close to great. Even when it kind of broke down like it did against the infamous 3 man rush, throw out of the end zone against Pittsburg Kirk needs to read the pocket better and make a play. He panicked and left points on the field. Again. In addition to good protection he has perhaps the best weapons of any QB in the league. How many short throws behind the first down mark did those guys turn into first downs already in 2 games? His running game average 4.7 YPC yesterday. It was hardly a liability.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, however, considering everything that you've just written and the amount of dissatisfaction thus far, maybe your line..."a QB who will always need the perfect situation around him" applies. As you've pointed out when he has been given nearly great protection....."He panicked and left points on the field." I'm just asking if there is too much being asked of a guy who is limited that's all?

 

[Sharkinva]

Thanks, however, considering everything that you've just written and the amount of dissatisfaction thus far, maybe your line..."a QB who will always need the perfect situation around him" applies. As you've pointed out when he has been given nearly great protection....."He panicked and left points on the field." I'm just asking if there is too much being asked of a guy who is limited that's all?

I dont think Kirk always needs a perfect situation around him. But lets take a few names here

Would you realistically try and run a read option with Peyton Manning as your QB?? Or Brady??

Would you put Russell Wilson in a straight drop back offense??


Realizing what Cousins strong points are ( Quick passes, play action, and occasionally the deep ball), it just makes no since to have him throwing the ball 40+ times a game with little to no commitment to the run. 5 wide three times on goal to go was asinine to say the least. You ask is too much being asked of him?? I say a 75/25 pass to run ration is a bit much. Every QB is limited in some capacity. Smart coaches and teams play within those limits and DONT put their QB in situations like we have the past two weeks.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I haven't seen anyone argue that they should have thrown it more. That's not the discussion. The discussion is centered around is this our QB of the future, a guy we are prepared to make a huge financial commitment to or not? If he's not, well then we are screwed and starting over. If he is then he better start acting like it. The posts saying we need to coddle him when he has great weapons and needs to start taking advantage of them are getting a bit much. As I said the bar is too low around here. A QB in this age throwing 45 passes, the vast majority short underneath stuff just isn't asking too much guys.

 

[Stymietee]

I dont think Kirk always needs a perfect situation around him. But lets take a few names here

Would you realistically try and run a read option with Peyton Manning as your QB?? Or Brady??

Would you put Russell Wilson in a straight drop back offense??


Realizing what Cousins strong points are ( Quick passes, play action, and occasionally the deep ball), it just makes no since to have him throwing the ball 40+ times a game with little to no commitment to the run. 5 wide three times on goal to go was asinine to say the least. You ask is too much being asked of him?? I say a 75/25 pass to run ration is a bit much. Every QB is limited in some capacity. Smart coaches and teams play within those limits and DONT put their QB in situations like we have the past two weeks.

There was some mention of Theisman earlier who was a limited QB but played on terrific teams.....This is not a terrific team, especially on defense, I could not agree with you more but given that, what are the options? In other words they dug this hole in building as they have. They didn't play down expectations by asking their fan base to be patient and they ONLY implied that they had found their QB, while the contract, or lack therein spoke volumes!

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Are you suggesting they made a mistake and should have given him a huge deal last summer?

 

[Sharkinva]

Are you suggesting they made a mistake and should have given him a huge deal last summer?

Define a Huge Deal??? Tyrod Taylor just got $90 million or $18 million a year. After all it has been said on more than one occasion, if Cousin doest work out, we are screwed any way. So how smart was it to play him on the tag, when reality says we would have had the cap space to address the D-line had we signed him long term. Never mind that Cousins might actually be pressing to prove he is worth a long term deal. And guess what the kicker is... Taylor could totally shit the bed and IF the BIlls cut him, they take a $2.5 million cap hit in 2017. But even if he is simply average, it gives them 2-3 years where they are NOT in the position where they have to find a QB or else.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

A quick look at yesterday's box score shows:

Fitzpatrick threw it 35 times
Daulton threw it 54 times
Tannehill threw it 45 times
Alex Smith threw it 37 times
Winston threw it 52 times
Derek Carr threw it 54 times
In his very first game with zero preseason Carson Wentz threw it 37 times

Are these guys all players who should be coddled too? Apparently their coaches don't believe so. And none are being confused with Tom Brady.

Is 46 passes and 15 runs out of balance? Of course it is. But you guys need to stop with this "poor little Kirk was treated unfairly" bit. He's a big boy with great weapons who was asked to throw mostly short underneath stuff for 2 weeks now.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

skins add innodis to roster

 

[Sharkinva]

A quick look at yesterday's box score shows:

Fitzpatrick threw it 35 times
Daulton threw it 54 times
Tannehill threw it 45 times
Alex Smith threw it 37 times
Winston threw it 52 times
Derek Carr threw it 54 times
In his very first game with zero preseason Carson Wentz threw it 37 times

Are these guys all players who should be coddled too? Apparently their coaches don't believe so. And none are being confused with Tom Brady.

Is 46 passes and 15 runs out of balance? Of course it is. But you guys need to stop with this "poor little Kirk was treated unfairly" bit. He's a big boy with great weapons who was asked to throw mostly short underneath stuff for 2 weeks now.

Fitzpatrick threw it 35 times won
Daulton threw it 54 times Lost
Tannehill threw it 45 times Lost
Alex Smith threw it 37 times Lost
Winston threw it 52 times Blown the Fuck OUT Lost
Derek Carr threw it 54 times Lost
In his very first game with zero preseason Carson Wentz threw it 37 times Won


So lets see, aside from Fitz, who ALSO had a running game, and Wentz... who also had a running game, most of your 35 passes or more club lost. No one is saying Coddle Kirk. But even you have to agree its dumb as fuck to ask and expect your QB to play a game that doesnt fit his skill set. IM really to the point where i hope they just give up on him though, and we can draft the shiny new QB with the new coaching staff, I just hope it also means we get some one picking players that realizes a defense giving up 32 points a game is not an indication that you need another WR.

 

[Breed]

Let me ask this question, Considering most people had expectations that KC would necessarily have to step up his game thus becoming the franchise player based upon these known factors:

1. A head coach who clearly believes in a pass heavy offensive scheme (Arena league and Bengals history)
2. A suspect running game from a season ago.
3. A developing offensive line.
4. A front office that essentially is paying him a one year prove it deal.

I'll give opinions to your 4 points as well.

1 & 2 ) While it certainly hasn't revealed itself in the two games we've played. As I recollect. Gruden always gave the impression that he wanted the Skins to be a capable running team. Can they be from the players they've drafted and signed via FA the last 2 years? I don't know and I have my doubts, but he certainly hasn't given establishing a running game much of a chance up to this point in the season.

3) And far too prone to making penalties. If a run game is truly something Gruden desires. Why not move Scherff to left guard and let him and Trent try and establish themselves as a run blocking tandem. Pass blocking-wise the has been nice. Is that a product of Dallas and Pitt playing more prevention defense as opposed to pressure defense? Maybe. We might get some type of answer when the Skins see the Giants this weekend.

4) I thought putting him on a one year prove it deal was the most prudent and sound business decisionj to make. Regardless what happens I can't fault the FO for that.

The question(s) are, was that honestly a realistic position to take in asking him to do more than he already proved that he was able to do?

I don't think anyone myself included wanted him to do anything he hasn't done necessarily. Just speaking for myself now. I just wanted him to do against top tier teams what I saw him do against 2nd tier and lower teams last year. I was looking at it as a gradual, but necessary step that he has to take. Maybe that was asking too much because up to this point. I don't think the Skins have faced a top defensive team. Although Pitt's defense looked pretty good against Cincy.

Are we now seeing that it is better to limit his game to what we know he can do instead of taking chances on his ability or inability to perform otherwise?

To answer the question above as thoroughly as possible. I think we first would have to establish some type of baseline of what we all think is KC's ability. For right now though. If by limit his game, you mean run the ball more. Than yes, I would've liked to have seen more of a run game in our first 2 games. The situation is fluid though. I can't say the Skins need to run the ball X amount of times every game. I'll say this as well. Right now KC is tied for the league lead in both pass attempts (89) and pass completions (58). While 31st as a team in rushing attempts (29 att) 26th in team rushing yards per game (68.5 yd per game) and 6th in team yards per carry (4.72 ypc) That's too much of an imbalance if for no other reason than it would help keep our defense off the field

Were you bothered by the on-field report that after the int. Kirk was inattentive to was being said to him, instead looking skyward and towards the ground?

I was unaware of that, but I can't say that I am. I'm sure KC knows he fucked up.

What do you believe that dissatisfaction (Gruden, Garcon so far) on the field and in the locker room will have on his confidence?

I dunno except to say nothing good. KC doesn't have a gunslinger mentality and that can be both good and bad. Right now I think its bad. He holds onto to shit, at least the bad shit it seems. He needs to be like, Fuck Breed, fuck Stymietee, fuck em all! I got this and now I'm bout to show all you bitches. Just watch. You'll like this!

Finally, Is it possible that Kirk doesn't have his head up his ass, but is doing his best, albeit under pressure? (he's playing for a huge payday) Thanks!!

Good grief I hope not.