Series Thread: Red Sox invade new rotation Rangers 6/24-6/26

[saddles]

How was the wedding, Bennie? Hope you brought a hanky!

It was great. It was a lot of work, but it was worth it. I managed to hold up pretty well, better than I thought. Thanks for asking.

 

[Bmurph]

Roth gets the shutout only giving up 2 hits total. It only took him 102 pitches so he might have even got to complete the game had Banister been managing. Banny likes keeping guys right in that range or lower usually.

Thats so he can use the BP guys even more

 

[saddles]

Thats so he can use the BP guys even more

Exactly.

 

[RevSader]

Exactly.

no...the reason most of our guys get pulled then is they have major injury history. They also usually hit 100 pitches in the 6th inning. Stress pitches after 100 increase the injury factor a great deal. If a starter other than Colby could routinely make the 8th inning under 95 pitches I am positive Banny would let them go.

 

[RevSader]

We took 2 of 3 from Boston and should have been 3 of 3. That happened with the likes of Martinez Ramos Perez Griffin and a tired BP. I'd say we did very well considering. Got a stretch to go with the addition of Gonzales. This will be a test for the team going forward. It is conceivable to think we split with NY Twins and Boston. If so that will be a success on this road trip.

Cannot fall victim to the fallacy of pre-determined outcomes. Maybe Texas had a fire lit under them after the comeback and wanted to stick it to Boston the next two games.

 

[Bmurph]

no...the reason most of our guys get pulled then is they have major injury history. They also usually hit 100 pitches in the 6th inning. Stress pitches after 100 increase the injury factor a great deal. If a starter other than Colby could routinely make the 8th inning under 95 pitches I am positive Banny would let them go.

I tend to agree mostly with Jeff's thought process here but at some point you have to let these guys go a bit longer. Teen probably could have thrown another 10-15 pitches today and maybe thats another inning but who knows. No need to chance it at that point though, probably. Leaving Bush in to start another inning after he got his job done though was probably unnecessary stressful pitches on him, so it seems it should work the same w the BP as well? Second guessing will never go away with managers decisions and baseball, however

 

[RevSader]

I tend to agree mostly with Jeff's thought process here but at some point you have to let these guys go a bit longer. Teen probably could have thrown another 10-15 pitches today and maybe thats another inning but who knows. No need to chance it at that point though, probably. Leaving Bush in to start another inning after he got his job done though was probably unnecessary stressful pitches on him, so it seems it should work the same w the BP as well? Second guessing will never go away with managers decisions and baseball, however

As long as baseball exists there will be debates on how and why managers did things.

 

[Bmurph]

As long as baseball exists there will be debates on how and why managers did things.

Its why these boards have that many more posts, second guessing is first nature

 

[RevSader]

Its why these boards have that many more posts, second guessing is first nature

I am way less critical when they are 22 over .500 haha. I trust the process for the most part. Even Prince, who has deserved much of the malign...well the number speak for themselves

 

[Bmurph]

I am way less critical when they are 22 over .500 haha. I trust the process for the most part. Even Prince, who has deserved much of the malign...well the number speak for themselves

Meh....its just my nature to be critical at every opportunity. I mean how else would I be able to give credit and recognition when it is due? HAHA

 

[RevSader]

Meh....its just my nature to be critical at every opportunity. I mean how else would I be able to give credit and recognition when it is due? HAHA

I have really tried to become less of a nitpicker, but that's only for my personal mental health. I tended to not keep things in perspective and would let a bad loss ruin my mood for a week. Now I get mad for an hour and then I can see the forest despite the trees again.

I have no problem with objective criticism. That's how we learn and grow as individuals. As long as we don't fall into the trap of critiquing the process because the results were unfavorable every time then our discussions stay grounded in mostly rational debate.

 

[Bmurph]

I have really tried to become less of a nitpicker, but that's only for my personal mental health. I tended to not keep things in perspective and would let a bad loss ruin my mood for a week. Now I get mad for an hour and then I can see the forest despite the trees again.

I have no problem with objective criticism. That's how we learn and grow as individuals. As long as we don't fall into the trap of critiquing the process because the results were unfavorable every time then our discussions stay grounded in mostly rational debate.

A week is probably excessive and your rationale makes sense about the process. Staying grounded is the best bet in most situations in which you have no control

 

[jta4437]

I am way less critical when they are 22 over .500 haha. I trust the process for the most part. Even Prince, who has deserved much of the malign...well the number speak for themselves

Yeah I had posted numbers up to his last AB and I thought he had looked better and looking up the numbers verified it, wish they would just actually play the best 9 guys depending on the handedness of the pitcher, and that wouldn't include Prince every time against LHPs

 

[RevSader]

Yeah I had posted numbers up to his last AB and I thought he had looked better and looking up the numbers verified it, wish they would just actually play the best 9 guys depending on the handedness of the pitcher, and that wouldn't include Prince every time against LHPs

That would be the best idea. Joe Maddon was good at that with the Rays when they were good.

 

[saddles]

I tend to agree mostly with Jeff's thought process here but at some point you have to let these guys go a bit longer. Teen probably could have thrown another 10-15 pitches today and maybe thats another inning but who knows. No need to chance it at that point though, probably. Leaving Bush in to start another inning after he got his job done though was probably unnecessary stressful pitches on him, so it seems it should work the same w the BP as well? Second guessing will never go away with managers decisions and baseball, however

That's the problem I have. I am not asking them to go old school and go 125-135 pitches. I think 110 with an occasional 120 is not asking too much at all. Everything is fine now because the biggest drawback to his game plan won't show up until the last few weeks of the regular season and the postseason. It won't help to win 100 games if our bullpen is wasted. This being satisfied with 95 pitches in 6 innings is going to kill the pen I think.

 

[saddles]

Prince may have a good month or two now and then, but overall he is a shadow of his former self. He will probably always be prone to give us another awful 2 or more months at a time from here on out. Let's get through this year and get rid of him.

 

[jta4437]

Prince may have a good month or two now and then, but overall he is a shadow of his former self. He will probably always be prone to give us another awful 2 or more months at a time from here on out. Let's get through this year and get rid of him.

RHPs and low velocity pitchers and he should be ok going forward, but that requires a manager actually willing to look at the matchups

 

[romeo212000]

That's the problem I have. I am not asking them to go old school and go 125-135 pitches. I think 110 with an occasional 120 is not asking too much at all. Everything is fine now because the biggest drawback to his game plan won't show up until the last few weeks of the regular season and the postseason. It won't help to win 100 games if our bullpen is wasted. This being satisfied with 95 pitches in 6 innings is going to kill the pen I think.

It's catch 22. Banister may be thinking about keeping the rotation arms fresh for the home stretch. Relievers are easier to find than starters after all.

 

[fordman84]

Prince may have a good month or two now and then, but overall he is a shadow of his former self. He will probably always be prone to give us another awful 2 or more months at a time from here on out. Let's get through this year and get rid of him.

Maybe he has the same issue Big Papi did a few years ago, where he just flat out sucks the first two months and then gets hot the rest of teh season. If that is the case, I'm ok with sticking with him. Or selling him at the end of the year if we can.

either way, my best takeaway from yesterday was that Bush and Tolleson both looked like their old stud selfs. Maybe the BP will focus a little extra now that they have A) blown one for us and B) know the SP is going to need extra help.

 

[jta4437]

Maybe he has the same issue Big Papi did a few years ago, where he just flat out sucks the first two months and then gets hot the rest of teh season. If that is the case, I'm ok with sticking with him. Or selling him at the end of the year if we can.

either way, my best takeaway from yesterday was that Bush and Tolleson both looked like their old stud selfs. Maybe the BP will focus a little extra now that they have A) blown one for us and B) know the SP is going to need extra help.

Bush looked good the 1st inning, but not so much the 2nd inning, Diekman didn't look all that sharp (again) and got lucky after he threw a meatball to Ortiz

I'm just glad we didn't see Dyson at all this series