Game Thread: Wild Card: Packers @ Redskins

[Sportster 72]

Funny thing is I don't hear anyone in Washington advocating that Barry should be fired. Which was the original post.

 

[redskinsfan]

Funny thing is I don't hear anyone in Washington advocating that Barry should be fired. Which was the original post.

That was one of the points I made, but not the principal one, which was that Barry couldn't adjust. I still stand by both my points, but am willing to defer to Scot on what to do with Barry. I've got plenty of backup on the principal point I made, though.

 

[skinsdad62]

i grasp it all
i just think you are wrong period and i answered all the debating points you put forth to support the original post .
because if you werent using those points to support your position then why bring them up ?

 

[redskinsfan]

i grasp it all
i just think you are wrong period and i answered all the debating points you put forth to support the original post .
because if you werent using those points to support your position then why bring them up ?

Well, you didn't, and you didn't come close to answering it. Look at my the post-wrapping up my argument. What you do specifically don't grasp is my reliance on people like Rob Demovsky to support my point that Barry couldn't make appropriate adjustments to GB's short game. You've adduced zero in terms of that. In addition, other posts, such that offered by Krusheasy quoting what Gruden said to Barry when GB went up tempo is telling. In one of the exchanges that Gruden had with Barry then, he told Barry with some NSFW language to stop subbing when GB went no-huddle because you simply can't do it then. This is but one other example that shows that Barry was clueless then.

 

[j_y19]

Well, you didn't, and you didn't come close to answering it. Look at my the post-wrapping up my argument. What you do specifically don't grasp is my reliance on people like Rob Demovsky to support my point that Barry couldn't make appropriate adjustments to GB's short game. You've adduced zero in terms of that. In addition, other posts, such that offered by Krusheasy quoting what Gruden said to Barry when GB went up tempo is telling. In one of the exchanges that Gruden had with Barry then, he told Barry with some NSFW language to stop subbing when GB went no-huddle because you simply can't do it then. This is but one other example that shows that Barry was clueless then.

So how the fuck is Barry supposed to adjust to GB going up tempo if he can't sub and get the players in there that he needs for the situation? This is the crux of this issue I have. You continue to say Barry is incapable of adjusting. My point has been all along that he was unable to adjust given the personnel he had. When all you have left in your tool bag is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. This defense was so ravished by injury and populated with numerous guys right off the street. We did not have the personnel to play the press coverage you suggest. All we had was a hammer. We play press coverage with what we had out there and we give up big play after big play.

 

[j_y19]

He is an interesting stat for you. In the 2nd half, GB passed on only 8 plays. The ran on 23 plays. But you say Barry should have adjusted to play press coverage. It wasn't the "dink and dunk" offense that killed us. It was our inability to tackle and stop their running attack. That is all on the talent we had on defense. Much of their yards came after their RBs broke away from the the first defender to make contact.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

He is an interesting stat for you. In the 2nd half, GB passed on only 8 plays. The ran on 23 plays. But you say Barry should have adjusted to play press coverage. It wasn't the "dink and dunk" offense that killed us. It was our inability to tackle and stop their running attack. That is all on the talent we had on defense. Much of their yards came after their RBs broke away from the the first defender to make contact.

Agree. You also have to consider the ineffectiveness of the Redskins offense especially in the 2nd half. After the Redskins initial TD drive in the 3rd QTR they were basically nonexistent & rarely had the ball. This was due to their lack of a running game, injuries & good defense by the Packers.

This resulted in the Redskins defense being on the field too long & getting tired. It also allowed the Packers to run more since they had a lead. A lot of this can be addressed over the offseason by getting healthy & obtaining key personnel on both sides. This goes way beyond coaching mistakes.

No defense is going to stop a good QB for an entire game in this era. The offense must assist in this area by scoring more pts and/or running the ball well.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

BTW - do you also blame the Cards D coordinator for giving up that Hail Mary & other plays on Sat? Cmon - we are talking about Aaron Freaking Rodgers!

 

[skinsdad62]

redskins fan you forget we live in a free society where everyman's / womans opinion have value and can be expressed at the ballot box

my opinion has value . hence it is as good as any guru / pundit you want to name . it doesnt mean its better , it doesnt mean it is more respected it doesnt mean anything more then " it is good as'

now you can play that " i am not as enlightened as you " card till the cows come home and at the end of the day my position will be the same

i understand everything i get everything , i just dont agree with it so enough of the i am a country bumpkin crap ok?

and i will say again the "expert " you sight for your talking point agrees with me

 

[redskinsfan]

So how the fuck is Barry supposed to adjust to GB going up tempo if he can't sub and get the players in there that he needs for the situation? This is the crux of this issue I have. You continue to say Barry is incapable of adjusting. My point has been all along that he was unable to adjust given the personnel he had. When all you have left in your tool bag is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. This defense was so ravished by injury and populated with numerous guys right off the street. We did not have the personnel to play the press coverage you suggest. All we had was a hammer. We play press coverage with what we had out there and we give up big play after big play.

It's not the uptempo thing I was taking issue with. But that's another important point in demonstrating how Barry was clueless -- i.e., he didn't realize he couldn't sub when they went no huddle, something which was caught on tape when Gruden was cursing him as to that point. With respect to this canard that he didn't have the personnel, he certainly had the personnel when he shut down a more potent Giants receiving corps and passing game didn't he? And how did he do that? He played press coverage and took away the short passing game that Eli loves to throw. My point is -- and it's been echoed by countless commentators -- that he could've done the same thing in the GB game. And if you listen to Shawn Springs who just came on the with the Junkies last week, he said the exact same thing. I'd invite you to listen to him and others on this issue.

 

[redskinsfan]

He is an interesting stat for you. In the 2nd half, GB passed on only 8 plays. The ran on 23 plays. But you say Barry should have adjusted to play press coverage. It wasn't the "dink and dunk" offense that killed us. It was our inability to tackle and stop their running attack. That is all on the talent we had on defense. Much of their yards came after their RBs broke away from the the first defender to make contact.

No, I didn't just say second half. My point was how Rodgers started doing this in the second quarter, perhaps earlier.

 

[skinsdad62]

rodgers has gotten numerous DC's in substitution patterns and getting penalties . it isnt a "barry thing "

 

[redskinsfan]

redskins fan you forget we live in a free society where everyman's / womans opinion have value and can be expressed at the ballot box

my opinion has value . hence it is as good as any guru / pundit you want to name . it doesnt mean its better , it doesnt mean it is more respected it doesnt mean anything more then " it is good as'

now you can play that " i am not as enlightened as you " card till the cows come home and at the end of the day my position will be the same

i understand everything i get everything , i just dont agree with it so enough of the i am a country bumpkin crap ok?

and i will say again the "expert " you sight for your talking point agrees with me

I really don't think you do. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but, in most cases, some opinions are far better than others. For instance, I've got my own opinions on how to invest my money. But I've also got friends who are investment bankers at some of the most prestigious Wall Street and international investments houses and hedge funds in the world. While some of my own personal opinions on investing differ than theirs, I'd be the first to tell you that theirs is far better and more informed than mine.

On a more relevant level, I've expressed my view that Barry should be fired. I think I've got enough good reasons supporting that view. However, if Scot McCloughan decides that Barry should be retained (this year), I'll defer to him. Why? Because I trust his opinion to be better than mine.

What you're doing is conflating two different issues. The first is that any one opinion is as valid as another's in the eyes of the law. This, however, is very different than the issue of the quality of the opinions expressed by any given person. Thus, while the law will view my opinion about Barry equally with others opinion of him, an objective assessment of the contrasting opinions on Barry's tenure will show which opinions are better or worse than another's.

 

[redskinsfan]

rodgers has gotten numerous DC's in substitution patterns and getting penalties . it isnt a "barry thing "

Wow. This isn't an uptempo or substitution thing! It's about playing press coverage and/or squatting on the short passing game. I can't tell you how many persons have weighed on my side of the issue. If you want to hear one of the most recent guys offering his opinion, go queue up the podcast where the Junkies interview Shawn Springs on this issue.

And don't tell me that we didn't have the personnel to play this type of a defense because we certainly did when we played the Giants, who had a far better passing game than GB did when coming into our game with them last week. If you remember, we actually had the Giants down 20-0 at one point. We lost the shutout on a 4th-and-16 play where Eli hit Reuben Randle on -- guess what? -- a soft zone where Blackmon (I believe it was him) just let Randle go streaking by him. If we continued to play press coverage, that almost certainly wouldn't have happened (though it shouldn't have happened anyways).

 

[redskinsfan]

BTW - do you also blame the Cards D coordinator for giving up that Hail Mary & other plays on Sat? Cmon - we are talking about Aaron Freaking Rodgers!

Hey, why not?

 

[skinsdad62]

I really don't think you do. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but, in most cases, some opinions are far better than others. For instance, I've got my own opinions on how to invest my money. But I've also got friends who are investment bankers at some of the most prestigious Wall Street and international investments houses and hedge funds in the world. While some of my own personal opinions on investing differ than theirs, I'd be the first to tell you that theirs is far better and more informed than mine.

On a more relevant level, I've expressed my view that Barry should be fired. I think I've got enough good reasons supporting that view. However, if Scot McCloughan decides that Barry should be retained (this year), I'll defer to him. Why? Because I trust his opinion to be better than mine.

What you're doing is conflating two different issues. The first is that any one opinion is as valid as another's in the eyes of the law. This, however, is very different than the issue of the quality of the opinions expressed by any given person. Thus, while the law will view my opinion about Barry equally with others opinion of him, an objective assessment of the contrasting opinions on Barry's tenure will show which opinions are better or worse than another's.

is this the doctor thing all over again ? now we have moved to wall street ? then we will go to lawyer ? then dog catcher ?

my opinion is as good as so called experts period end of story . you want to follow them blindly be my guest . i will research on my own get different views and make my choice from there

i am not conflating issues . you used experts to back your position and i used my experience to back mine .
pundits and experts arent always right they never will be my opinion is as good as anyone elses . maybe yours isnt but mine sure is

 

[skinsdad62]

Wow. This isn't an uptempo or substitution thing! It's about playing press coverage and/or squatting on the short passing game. I can't tell you how many persons have weighed on my side of the issue. If you want to hear one of the most recent guys offering his opinion, go queue up the podcast where the Junkies interview Shawn Springs on this issue.

And don't tell me that we didn't have the personnel to play this type of a defense because we certainly did when we played the Giants, who had a far better passing game than GB did when coming into our game with them last week. If you remember, we actually had the Giants down 20-0 at one point. We lost the shutout on a 4th-and-16 play where Eli hit Reuben Randle on -- guess what? -- a soft zone where Blackmon (I believe it was him) just let Randle go streaking by him. If we continued to play press coverage, that almost certainly wouldn't have happened (though it shouldn't have happened anyways).

i dont care about shwan springs and what he says we didnt have the people to run what he thinks we should have . [playoff and regular season games are 2 different animals and rodgers presents more problems to a defense then the 36 year old manning

 

[redskinsfan]

He is an interesting stat for you. In the 2nd half, GB passed on only 8 plays. The ran on 23 plays. But you say Barry should have adjusted to play press coverage. It wasn't the "dink and dunk" offense that killed us. It was our inability to tackle and stop their running attack. That is all on the talent we had on defense. Much of their yards came after their RBs broke away from the the first defender to make contact.

By the way, in the second and third quarters, Rodgers either attempted or completed short passes 23 times, including the 10 and 12 yard TD passes he threw in those quarters.

 

[redskinsfan]

is this the doctor thing all over again ? now we have moved to wall street ? then we will go to lawyer ? then dog catcher ?

my opinion is as good as so called experts period end of story . you want to follow them blindly be my guest . i will research on my own get different views and make my choice from there

i am not conflating issues . you used experts to back your position and i used my experience to back mine .
pundits and experts arent always right they never will be my opinion is as good as anyone elses . maybe yours isnt but mine sure is

Yes, we're going back to them because they make sense. And it's not blindly following them. Like the issue regarding Barry getting fired, I actually form my opinion first and then ultimately defer to an expert. This all sounds like some guy I knew that took his ailing kid to a doctor, who then prescribed some medicine and recovery regimen for the kid. But the guy had done some research on the Internet supposedly showing that there was really nothing wrong with the kid. Aside from why the guy took his kid to the doctor in the first place, it's just nuts to think that the guy's opinion was equal -- much less any better -- than the doctor's.

 

[skinsdad62]

Yes, we're going back to them because they make sense. And it's not blindly following them. Like the issue regarding Barry getting fired, I actually form my opinion first and then ultimately defer to an expert. This all sounds like some guy I knew that took his ailing kid to a doctor, who then prescribed some medicine and recovery regimen for the kid. But the guy had done some research on the Internet supposedly showing that there was really nothing wrong with the kid. Aside from why the guy took his kid to the doctor in the first place, it's just nuts to think that the guy's opinion was equal -- much less any better -- than the doctor's.

my above true case , proved it you are using a mythical one

my opinion on my treatment after research proved correct over the doctor's supposedly more informed opinion if i deferred to him i would still be suffering