QB contracts

[gkekoa]

Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

This is why I think you guys are way over pricing KC.

Where do you put him in this group? Every guy making 16 mil/season, has earned it, except maybe Alex Smith. They are all multi-year starters with NFL arms, which KC may not have.

 

[deanpet21]

His age will be a big factor.

 

[Sharkinva]

As will the market, the state of the team as a whole, and the available alternatives.

 

[j_y19]

As will the market, the state of the team as a whole, and the available alternatives.

If anything drives his price up, and I honestly don't know what that number should be, will be the market. It is a very weak FA and draft market this offseason. That will have an impact.

Let me clarify. As I originally posted on this subject, I believe we wait to try and sign kirk until after the season has ended. Lets see how he closes this out. but if he finishes with a production similar to what he has furnished to date, he is our best bet as starter going forward until we can draft and groom his replacement. And if he is our best bet, you pay him as a starter.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

If anything drives his price up, and I honestly don't know what that number should be, will be the market. It is a very weak FA and draft market this offseason. That will have an impact.

Let me clarify. As I originally posted on this subject, I believe we wait to try and sign kirk until after the season has ended. Lets see how he closes this out. but if he finishes with a production similar to what he has furnished to date, he is our best bet as starter going forward until we can draft and groom his replacement. And if he is our best bet, you pay him as a starter.

Again - when you state that if his production is similar to what it has been to date please objectively consider all of the games. Will you (or they) be happy w/ a QB who basically has a roller coaster type season (partially his fault & partially due to others)? If he finishes with all road losses with multiple turnovers while winning a few home games with good numbers will that be considered a success? Will that perhaps lower his contract numbers a bit? Let me know your thoughts.

 

[j_y19]

Again - when you state that if his production is similar to what it has been to date please objectively consider all of the games. Will you (or they) be happy w/ a QB who basically has a roller coaster type season (partially his fault & partially due to others)? If he finishes with all road losses with multiple turnovers while winning a few home games with good numbers will that be considered a success? Will that perhaps lower his contract numbers a bit? Let me know your thoughts.

no GM or coach can be happy with a rollercoaster season. But if you look objectively at KCs play, it hasn't been the rollercoaster that the team has. He has had bad games, but not really for 4 or 5 games now. He has played rather consistently since game 6. In fact, he has only had 1 INT that was his fault in the last 4 games. I can only think of one other QB that can make that claim who plays regularly, Brady. One wait, he threw another one last night so he has had 2 INTs in the last 4 games. So if he continues with his same level of play, he has played well enough for this team to win. SO the real question is are we losing because the rest of the team is bad? Im not prepared to say what we should do with KC, I have always maintained that we need to wait to the end of the season and objectively look at his play against the situation he was in. All I maintain is after that analysis, if you deem him your starter, then you pay him as a starter. I have also maintained that we need to get a young QBon this roster that has potential that we can groom as KCs replacement. And he should replace KC as soon as he gives the team a better chance at winning.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I see your pt J_Y & agree to a pt. However - I wouldn't give Cousins a total pass on some of the recent losses. Also - if he is to warrant a big, longer term contract he needs to show that he is actually helping the team win & not just against really bad teams. He needs to show more than simply that the losses were not his fault. I believe that he is capable of this assuming that he gets a little help.

 

[gkekoa]

Big contracts are given to proven commodities with a larger body of work than a season. Not one of those guys getting paid over 16 million per season had a small body of unsuccessful work like KC does. Then you look at physical attributes...

He lacks ideal size.
He lacks arm strength.
His decision making has been questionable.

This will lead teams to think Brian Hoyer. We will see who ends up being correct.

 

[j_y19]

I know it may seem like it, but I'm not a KC or bust proponent. I'm for what ever makes the redskins best. In fact, I had serious reservations about him when the season started. But I have been pleasantly surprised by his play. I do also believe that if his growth continues on this same trajectory, we may have something. Maybe not a true franchise QB who can carry a team to victory just by being behind center, but a good QB that can productively lead the offense and move the ball. He is not there yet, but anyone objectively looking at his performance this season has to admit that he is improving.

My concern is if he continues to grow and he lose him, we have nothing. There is no one out there that will be available as of today that is better than him and we will be starting over, stunting the growth of the rest of the team.

 

[gkekoa]

I know it may seem like it, but I'm not a KC or bust proponent. I'm for what ever makes the redskins best. In fact, I had serious reservations about him when the season started. But I have been pleasantly surprised by his play. I do also believe that if his growth continues on this same trajectory, we may have something. Maybe not a true franchise QB who can carry a team to victory just by being behind center, but a good QB that can productively lead the offense and move the ball. He is not there yet, but anyone objectively looking at his performance this season has to admit that he is improving.

My concern is if he continues to grow and he lose him, we have nothing. There is no one out there that will be available as of today that is better than him and we will be starting over, stunting the growth of the rest of the team.

Let's say he does grow the remainder of this season and peaks...we sign him to a five year, 85 million dollar contract, with 30 million in guarantees...we win 8 games next season...8 the year after...because he has peaked. Doesn't that really stunt the growth of this team?

 

[j_y19]

What if he doesn't peak? What if he gets injured? What if he goes to another team and leads them to a SB? What If his replacement turns out to be John beck or Mcnabb?

We can play the what if game all day long.

I don't know what the number should be, I just know that if you deem him your starter, then don't insult him by offering him back up money. Pay him starter money. Believe me, if you aren't willing to pay a player their market value, the rest of the players see this....it's not just KC you are affecting.

 

[Sharkinva]

Let's say he does grow the remainder of this season and peaks...we sign him to a five year, 85 million dollar contract, with 30 million in guarantees...we win 8 games next season...8 the year after...because he has peaked. Doesn't that really stunt the growth of this team?

This assumes we dont or cant improve the team in any other areas. Lets be real here, if your QB is completing 70% or more of his passes, most teams will take that any given day and twice on Sundays.

Now lets look at the flip side and say we draft a QB with our first rounder

Yeah.. hope is revived, we now have the next great savior.... only we still go 8-8 the next two years because we also were not able to draft that top flight pass rusher, DB or WR this year, and our rookie is taking the normal 2-3 year growth span.... Aside from spending a few dollars less what did we really accomplish??

Because like as not that is what this really boils down to.. .do we throw more time and draft picks at the QB position, or do we resign Kirk and continue to build the team around him.

 

[gkekoa]

As usual...I believe you guys are overvaluing our players...like you did with RAK and Riley.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

This assumes we dont or cant improve the team in any other areas. Lets be real here, if your QB is completing 70% or more of his passes, most teams will take that any given day and twice on Sundays.

Now lets look at the flip side and say we draft a QB with our first rounder

Yeah.. hope is revived, we now have the next great savior.... only we still go 8-8 the next two years because we also were not able to draft that top flight pass rusher, DB or WR this year, and our rookie is taking the normal 2-3 year growth span.... Aside from spending a few dollars less what did we really accomplish??

Because like as not that is what this really boils down to.. .do we throw more time and draft picks at the QB position, or do we resign Kirk and continue to build the team around him.

If possible I would also combine this with Kaepernick type contract where there is only a substantial cap hit in the first few years if Cousins fails & has to be released or traded. This allows you to still build the team if he fails. Sure he will take up big money initially but that can be supplemented somewhat by obtaining cheaper players in the draft. If Cousins is a success they won't mind paying the big bucks in year 3 and beyond. Now it may not have to be $17M or more per year - they might be able to get somewhat of a home town discount if dealing in good faith.

Allen is a guru with the cap and can figure out a way to be creative in this area.

 

[j_y19]

If possible I would also combine this with Kaepernick type contract where there is only a substantial cap hit in the first few years if Cousins fails & has to be released or traded. This allows you to still build the team if he fails. Sure he will take up big money initially but that can be supplemented somewhat by obtaining cheaper players in the draft. If Cousins is a success they won't mind paying the big bucks in year 3 and beyond. Now it may not have to be $17M or more per year - they might be able to get somewhat of a home town discount if dealing in good faith.

Allen is a guru with the cap and can figure out a way to be creative in this area.

I'm fine with that.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

What would a Kirk Cousins contract extension look like?

I'm sure that this was posted somewhere on this forum previously, but I have not seen it. Anyhow - this guy is usually very in touch with the Redskins & this was posted prior to the Panthers game when Cousins mania was at an all time high. Anyhow - he is maintaining that Cousins will likely get a contract more in the $12-13 million per year range.

One of the reasons noted is something a lot of you mention related to Cousins' growth & reason to forgive some of his mistakes - he really only has the equivalent amt of starts as a 2 year player. Therefore - he should not be commanding the same salary as a 4th year player who has started all/most games. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Sharkinva]

As usual...I believe you guys are overvaluing our players...like you did with RAK and Riley.

Nigatta please... Rak has 7 sacks. At the moment I think Joe Barry would sell his first born for ANY LB on this team to have 7 sacks. He got $7.75 average per year. He was asking for $8 million average and most around here thought he was worth no more than $5 and that was being generous.

So yes as per the norm I think people around here are under valueing our own which has been a common theme since DAnny boy came to town. Low ball our own, find the next big flashy thing.

 

[gkekoa]

Nigatta please... Rak has 7 sacks. At the moment I think Joe Barry would sell his first born for ANY LB on this team to have 7 sacks. He got $7.75 average per year. He was asking for $8 million average and most around here thought he was worth no more than $5 and that was being generous.

So yes as per the norm I think people around here are under valueing our own which has been a common theme since DAnny boy came to town. Low ball our own, find the next big flashy thing.

Contract wise. People were talking how he was going to get 10mil/season...there he is at 7.

People were talking about Riley getting 7 mil/season...here he is at 4 mil/season.

I am not for low-balling and bringing in any thing flashy. I am for paying people their value. You guys just have a distorted idea of the value of our own, normally.

 

[Sharkinva]

Contract wise. People were talking how he was going to get 10mil/season...there he is at 7.

People were talking about Riley getting 7 mil/season...here he is at 4 mil/season.

I am not for low-balling and bringing in any thing flashy. I am for paying people their value. You guys just have a distorted idea of the value of our own, normally.

And like i said, most people realized his market value was in the $7-8 million range which is what he was asking. Alot of fans thought he shouldnt get half that, you were among those if I recall.

As I have stated, alot of people around here are quick to discard our own and move on to the next new hotness. I think Kirk falls into that category.

And I will ask you right now, with the fact that Rak has more sacks alone, than our entire LB group combined... you still think he would have been over paid even at $10 million a season??

 

[gkekoa]

And like i said, most people realized his market value was in the $7-8 million range which is what he was asking. Alot of fans thought he shouldnt get half that, you were among those if I recall.

As I have stated, alot of people around here are quick to discard our own and move on to the next new hotness. I think Kirk falls into that category.

And I will ask you right now, with the fact that Rak has more sacks alone, than our entire LB group combined... you still think he would have been over paid even at $10 million a season??

I believe the series of events went like this. People were saying he would get 10...I said offer 5...and sign him for 7-8...maybe I am wrong. Yes...he would have been vastly overpaid at 10 million.

I will say again what I believe on the Kirk front...at the end of the season, sign him for 10...acceptable is 12. And he may not even get that in base and signing.