special teams

[Darrell Green Fan]

too bad we didnt have patience with him . i dont have a big issue with forbath . we just need to cover kicks better to make up for it

This is exactly my point on Forbath. We bailed on Suisham too soon and Pittsburg has had a damn solid kicker for years as we ran through a dozen failures. We bailed on Gano too early too. Now some want to make the same mistake with Cobra Kain.

 

[skinsdad62]

This is exactly my point on Forbath. We bailed on Suisham too soon and Pittsburg has had a damn solid kicker for years as we ran through a dozen failures. We bailed on Gano too early too. Now some want to make the same mistake with Cobra Kain.

no we dont need to bail on the guy . he is having a slow camp that is all . better to struggle in camp then in games . this will get sorted out

 

[martinez]

If he's missing fgs in preseason id start to worry. But not yet

 

[Breed]

too bad we didnt have patience with him . i dont have a big issue with forbath . we just need to cover kicks better to make up for it

I'll second this emotion as I think Forbath has been both consistent and clutch. His long range FG kicking may still be a bit of a mystery, but I can live with missed FGs 50 or beyond. A whole lot easier than missed FGs from 40 yards or 30 yards or less than 30 yards. And the Skins have had plenty of all thress far to many times in the last decade

 

[Stymietee]

Typical Washington football disconnect. If the norm now is practically zero returns on kick-offs because they are unreturnable, why should we not expect at least that? Covering kicks with great results is wonderful........that is until......you consider the risks associated with HAVING to do so. No chance of contact injury if the resultant kick is out of the end zone. Of course this is DC so settling for less than, has become customary. I'm hoping that SM has immunosuppressives that prevents this sick culture from infecting him.

 

[martinez]

Typical Washington football disconnect. If the norm now is practically zero returns on kick-offs because they are unreturnable, why should we not expect at least that? Covering kicks with great results is wonderful........that is until......you consider the risks associated with HAVING to do so. No chance of contact injury if the resultant kick is out of the end zone. Of course this is DC so settling for less than, has become customary. I'm hoping that SM has immunosuppressives that prevents this sick culture from infecting him.

So you would rather have a guy that kicks touchbacks and misses fgs.

 

[Stymietee]

So you would rather have a guy that kicks touchbacks and misses fgs.

Why are so many fans of this team so comfortable with mediocrity? This is not an either or question, but rather one about competency. When other teams are able to find a kicker who's able to do both, we want to debate WHICH we should settle for. Here's a novel idea, let's stop making excuses for sub par performers!

 

[skinsdad62]

Typical Washington football disconnect. If the norm now is practically zero returns on kick-offs because they are unreturnable, why should we not expect at least that? Covering kicks with great results is wonderful........that is until......you consider the risks associated with HAVING to do so. No chance of contact injury if the resultant kick is out of the end zone. Of course this is DC so settling for less than, has become customary. I'm hoping that SM has immunosuppressives that prevents this sick culture from infecting him.

you know they have covered kicks for years and the world didnt spin off its access with injuries . there isnt a lot of kickers out there who can do both and the ones that do cost . so its hardly "settling for mediocrity".

 

[Stymietee]

you know they have covered kicks for years and the world didnt spin off its access with injuries . there isnt a lot of kickers out there who can do both and the ones that do cost . so its hardly "settling for mediocrity".

The NFL doesn't agree with you, in fact they changed to make it easier for kickers to kick the ball out of the endzone. Why this has become an issue here stumps me because of the new kickoff rules. If this team is truly in upgrade mode, there can be no position nor job that is beyond scrutiny.

 

[Breed]

Typical Washington football disconnect. If the norm now is practically zero returns on kick-offs because they are unreturnable, why should we not expect at least that? Covering kicks with great results is wonderful........that is until......you consider the risks associated with HAVING to do so. No chance of contact injury if the resultant kick is out of the end zone. Of course this is DC so settling for less than, has become customary. I'm hoping that SM has immunosuppressives that prevents this sick culture from infecting him.

I think the disconnect lies with those who believe there are practically zero KO ret in the NFL today.

Looks like a decent number of placekickers are around the 50/50 mark far as TBs and KOs returned.
2014 NFL Kickoff Statistics - The Football Database

2014 NFL Kickoff Return Statistics - The Football Database

Using the ol' cuts down on the risk of injury excuse eh. That just sounds like an excuse to me and a weak one at that. And that's not to say I don't care about player injury, but until the NFL gets rid of a football uniform's without question most dangerous and deadly weapon, the helmet. Or they change tackle football to touch football and allow no blocking or hitting whatsoever below the waist. As well as outlaw blindside blocks of any kind. All the talk about player safety/making the game safer is just that, talk. So I fail to see why the NFL is doing away with arguably the most exciting play in football.

 

[Stymietee]

I think the disconnect lies with those who believe there are practically zero KO ret in the NFL today.

Looks like a decent number of placekickers are around the 50/50 mark far as TBs and KOs returned.
2014 NFL Kickoff Statistics - The Football Database

2014 NFL Kickoff Return Statistics - The Football Database

Using the ol' cuts down on the risk of injury excuse eh. That just sounds like an excuse to me and a weak one at that. And that's not to say I don't care about player injury, but until the NFL gets rid of a football uniform's without question most dangerous and deadly weapon, the helmet. Or they change tackle football to touch football and allow no blocking or hitting whatsoever below the waist. As well as outlaw blindside blocks of any kind. All the talk about player safety/making the game safer is just that, talk. So I fail to see why the NFL is doing away with arguably the most exciting play in football.

Until there is a better explanation as to why ball placement was moved for kick-offs, I'll go with the stated goals. Of course if you have some rational theroy beyond the one given, let's hear it. BTW: isn't it true that DC is below the average? ( my original point)

 

[countryroads316]

Forbath sucks he is a huge part of the reason the special team sucks he barely gets the kick to the 20 yard line by the time our guys get down there to make a tackle its at the 30-35 yard line

 

[Breed]

Until there is a better explanation as to why ball placement was moved for kick-offs, I'll go with the stated goals. Of course if you have some rational theroy beyond the one given, let's hear it. BTW: isn't it true that DC is below the average? ( my original point)

Concerning your original point. I live in the southlands of Cali so I can't call it.

What was irrational about anything I've said on the subject? But OK, I will give you a theory, you judge whether its rational or not for yourself, concerning safety. As safety, was also a justification you used for the elimination of kick offs.

Why don't owners want to remove the most dangerous piece of equipment, a football helmet, from the football uniform?

Because they fear that removing the helmet and allowing the faces of players to plainly be seen. Would greatly lessen a psychological enforcement within fans that football is the ultimate team game. All players wearing the same helmet with the same logo/emblem, same color facemask etc on the same team. Helps in creating or promoting the illusion that. The team is not a collection of individuals, but individuals that have come together to become a team.

If they were to remove the helmet from the uniform a day before the season starts. The means of tackling, blocking, hitting, would literally change over-night. As players would now have to become responsible for protecting their own head. As opposed to thinking the helmet is doing that job for them.

That not to say that head/neck injuries would be completely eliminated. But players would have to begin to use a part of the body that has in a lot of ways become foreign to NFL tackle football. That being their arms/hands to wrap up and/or grab the player with the ball in order to bring him down. And instead of leading directly or slightly off center with their heads in certain types of tackles. They would now make sure to lead with their shoulder or even a body block.

The removal of the helmet from the uniform would be the single greatest thing football could do to far as player safety goes. But due to a fear of lessening the belief of unification of all players voluntarily coming together to form a single unit. The owners will not allow that to happen. They would simply rather implement fake ass and bullshit initiatives like eliminating one of the most exciting plays in football. As the owners know they have our (the fans) noses wide open and we;ll fall for damn near anything when it comes to professional football. Which is America's favorite blood-sport.

 

[skinsdad62]

Concerning your original point. I live in the southlands of Cali so I can't call it.

What was irrational about anything I've said on the subject? But OK, I will give you a theory, you judge whether its rational or not for yourself, concerning safety. As safety, was also a justification you used for the elimination of kick offs.

Why don't owners want to remove the most dangerous piece of equipment, a football helmet, from the football uniform?

Because they fear that removing the helmet and allowing the faces of players to plainly be seen. Would greatly lessen a psychological enforcement within fans that football is the ultimate team game. All players wearing the same helmet with the same logo/emblem, same color facemask etc on the same team. Helps in creating or promoting the illusion that. The team is not a collection of individuals, but individuals that have come together to become a team.

If they were to remove the helmet from the uniform a day before the season starts. The means of tackling, blocking, hitting, would literally change over-night. As players would now have to become responsible for protecting their own head. As opposed to thinking the helmet is doing that job for them.

That not to say that head/neck injuries would be completely eliminated. But players would have to begin to use a part of the body that has in a lot of ways become foreign to NFL tackle football. That being their arms/hands to wrap up and/or grab the player with the ball in order to bring him down. And instead of leading directly or slightly off center with their heads in certain types of tackles. They would now make sure to lead with their shoulder or even a body block.

The removal of the helmet from the uniform would be the single greatest thing football could do to far as player safety goes. But due to a fear of lessening the belief of unification of all players voluntarily coming together to form a single unit. The owners will not allow that to happen. They would simply rather implement fake ass and bullshit initiatives like eliminating one of the most exciting plays in football. As the owners know they have our (the fans) noses wide open and we;ll fall for damn near anything when it comes to professional football. Which is America's favorite blood-sport.

the only thing you left out is that they are cyber plantation owners LOL, look i think the KO rules stink and again covering kicks and tackling better solves whatever issue forbath has with KO's . are there better all around kicker then kai ? sure but the guy hits a high percentage of his kicks so why worry about it ?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Until there is a better explanation as to why ball placement was moved for kick-offs, I'll go with the stated goals. Of course if you have some rational theroy beyond the one given, let's hear it. BTW: isn't it true that DC is below the average? ( my original point)

The point was contrary to popular belief the vast majority of kickoffs around the league do not end up in touch backs as is commonly believed. Originally I agreed with your post, why should we settle for mediocrity when every other team just bangs it into the end zone every time?

But as Breed's figures show that's not even close to the truth. Fact is virtually every kicker averages between 61 and 66 yards per kickoff, where I went to school that means they land between the 5 and 10 on average.

The post about Forbath's kicks landing on the 20 is so idiotic it's really not worth a response.

 

[Breed]

the only thing you left out is that they are cyber plantation owners LOL, look i think the KO rules stink and again covering kicks and tackling better solves whatever issue forbath has with KO's . are there better all around kicker then kai ? sure but the guy hits a high percentage of his kicks so why worry about it ?

I wasn't insinuating anything to do with slavery if that's how you took it, The owners just want to ensure or at least stack the deck as much as possible. So that no player or players ever becomes as big or bigger than the team in the eyes of the fan......did you ever see the original Rollerball starring James Caan? Something along the lines of that far as Jonathan, Cann's character in the movie, goes.

I'm worried because despite Kai being damn dependable and money far as his FG kicking duties over the last 3 years. On his KO duties he's been a disappointment. So despite all the issues the Skins have had over the last 20 or so years and in particular during the Snyder tenure of ownership when it comes to FG kicking before Kai hit the scene. A good portion of Skins fans are looking for any reason and even making them up, look at countryroads post in post #32 as an example, to justify cutting Forbath. More importantly, I think Gruden is looking to 86 Kai as well.

 

[Breed]

But as Breed's figures show that's not even close to the truth. Fact is virtually every kicker averages between 61 and 66 yards per kickoff, where I went to school that means they land between the 5 and 10 on average.

KOs happen from the kicking team's 35 yard line correct? If so and with the 61 to 66 yards per KO. That would put the KOs between the 4 yd line and one yard in the endzone on average.

It's not so much where you went to school, but how you went to school, short bus.

The post about Forbath's kicks landing on the 20 is so idiotic it's really not worth a response.

I was a little more diplomatic when I made mention of that post, but I'm glad at least 2 posters called shenanagans on it.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

KOs happen from the kicking team's 35 yard line correct? If so and with the 61 to 66 yards per KO. That would put the KOs between the 4 yd line and one yard in the endzone on average.

It's not so much where you went to school, but how you went to school, short bus.



I was a little more diplomatic when I made mention of that post, but I'm glad at least 2 posters called shenanagans on it.

LOL I was thinking they were still kicking from the 30. But the point remains most kickoffs around the league are not automatic touchbacks as people are implying.

 

[Breed]

Its not a huge sample size, but if the KO numbers were to stay relatively consistent and it didn't negatively impact his punting. The Skins should give Tress Way a decent stretch of games or even a season.

On 18 punts Way averaged 65.2 yards per kick compared to Kai's 61.3 yards, and half of his KOs were touchbacks. Whereas Kai's TB percentage was 33.3% 18/54

 

[skinsdad62]

I wasn't insinuating anything to do with slavery if that's how you took it, The owners just want to ensure or at least stack the deck as much as possible. So that no player or players ever becomes as big or bigger than the team in the eyes of the fan......did you ever see the original Rollerball starring James Caan? Something along the lines of that far as Jonathan, Cann's character in the movie, goes.

I'm worried because despite Kai being damn dependable and money far as his FG kicking duties over the last 3 years. On his KO duties he's been a disappointment. So despite all the issues the Skins have had over the last 20 or so years and in particular during the Snyder tenure of ownership when it comes to FG kicking before Kai hit the scene. A good portion of Skins fans are looking for any reason and even making them up, look at countryroads post in post #32 as an example, to justify cutting Forbath. More importantly, I think Gruden is looking to 86 Kai as well.

sorry breed that i wasnt more clear about it being a joke , i didnt take it that way , i saw that line in a movie ,