OK, I'm starting to get a bit worried

[j_y19]

This has nothing to do with their performance against NE these past few days. My concern is with Griffin. He still has issues throwing the ball away. He still exhibits issues with stepping up in the pocket or sliding to buy a few more seconds. In an interview the other day, he said he won't throw the ball away in practice as he sees it as a waste of time. Well, what you practice is usually how you perform. He still is exhibiting the behavior that he knows it all and he can make plays out of trash. He has got to learn that internal clock and when it goes off after a few seconds, he has to throw it away and move on. If he doesn't practice this, we will see more of what we saw last year and he will not last the season. I realize its still early, but if he doesn't change his attitude, then we can't expect his performance to change and he will not develop into a pocket passer.

The good news is that Gruden was asked about this and said that he needed to have a talk with Griffin about it. It will be interesting to see how that goes. They really need to run some drills with a stop watch. When the play hits 3.5 seconds, a loud horn needs to go off. IF Griff hasn't gotten rid of the ball by then, he fails the drill.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not downing the kid (really iM not this time), but old habits are hard to break. Especially if they are habits that have worked for you over most of your career. Its nice to have the confidence that you can always make it work, but if he doesnt either adjust his thinking, or the team adjust around his thinking... it could be a problem.

 

[skinsdad62]

This has nothing to do with their performance against NE these past few days. My concern is with Griffin. He still has issues throwing the ball away. He still exhibits issues with stepping up in the pocket or sliding to buy a few more seconds. In an interview the other day, he said he won't throw the ball away in practice as he sees it as a waste of time. Well, what you practice is usually how you perform. He still is exhibiting the behavior that he knows it all and he can make plays out of trash. He has got to learn that internal clock and when it goes off after a few seconds, he has to throw it away and move on. If he doesn't practice this, we will see more of what we saw last year and he will not last the season. I realize its still early, but if he doesn't change his attitude, then we can't expect his performance to change and he will not develop into a pocket passer.

The good news is that Gruden was asked about this and said that he needed to have a talk with Griffin about it. It will be interesting to see how that goes. They really need to run some drills with a stop watch. When the play hits 3.5 seconds, a loud horn needs to go off. IF Griff hasn't gotten rid of the ball by then, he fails the drill.

no need to be worried . i am sure it will get sorted out . more learning could be in order

 

[j_y19]

Not downing the kid (really iM not this time), but old habits are hard to break. Especially if they are habits that have worked for you over most of your career. Its nice to have the confidence that you can always make it work, but if he doesnt either adjust his thinking, or the team adjust around his thinking... it could be a problem.

Its not that he hasn't broken his old habits, its that he is not practicing to break them. That is what worries me.

 

[skinsdad62]

Its not that he hasn't broken his old habits, its that he is not practicing to break them. That is what worries me.

i dont know what to tell you . he doesnt want to waste practice reps ? i think you simply have to let him learn he isnt superman . but worrying about it wont change a thing

it could be worse , he could be the type that quits on every play

 

[TCB]

This has nothing to do with their performance against NE these past few days. My concern is with Griffin. He still has issues throwing the ball away. He still exhibits issues with stepping up in the pocket or sliding to buy a few more seconds. In an interview the other day, he said he won't throw the ball away in practice as he sees it as a waste of time. Well, what you practice is usually how you perform. He still is exhibiting the behavior that he knows it all and he can make plays out of trash. He has got to learn that internal clock and when it goes off after a few seconds, he has to throw it away and move on. If he doesn't practice this, we will see more of what we saw last year and he will not last the season. I realize its still early, but if he doesn't change his attitude, then we can't expect his performance to change and he will not develop into a pocket passer.

The good news is that Gruden was asked about this and said that he needed to have a talk with Griffin about it. It will be interesting to see how that goes. They really need to run some drills with a stop watch. When the play hits 3.5 seconds, a loud horn needs to go off. IF Griff hasn't gotten rid of the ball by then, he fails the drill.

I look at the last paragraph of what you wrote and see the big positive there. How many times did we have to here Shanny's bullshit every time a specific question was asked. He would make a general comment like, well we are always talking to the players about doing things better. Never talk about the specific comment which in this case would be, throwing the ball away. This is good news. Decisive talk from the coach. No mystery, no bs.

 

[j_y19]

I look at the last paragraph of what you wrote and see the big positive there. How many times did we have to here Shanny's bullshit every time a specific question was asked. He would make a general comment like, well we are always talking to the players about doing things better. Never talk about the specific comment which in this case would be, throwing the ball away. This is good news. Decisive talk from the coach. No mystery, no bs.

I agree. They guys, right now, tells you what he is thinking. My guess is he is a straight shooter with the players, also.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Good thread and exchange of thoughts. I too will be very interested to see this first preseason game and will be looking at Griffins pocket presence and decision making with a very close eye...

 

[Sportster 72]

I think you are justified in worrying about some of Griffins statements. If the coach says I want you to do something a certain way and you refuse in my opinion that is a problem. We heard the same sorts of reports last year. Robert has his own agenda.

They were talking today about when he does scramble he turns his back to the line of scrimmage to run away or back straight up (something we saw last year) both things you don't want to see. You can't look downfield for receivers if your back is facing them and you can't get anything on the ball if you are backing up. Sounds to me like someone needs a large does of humble pie.

 

[skinsdad62]

I think you are justified in worrying about some of Griffins statements. If the coach says I want you to do something a certain way and you refuse in my opinion that is a problem. We heard the same sorts of reports last year. Robert has his own agenda.

They were talking today about when he does scramble he turns his back to the line of scrimmage to run away or back straight up (something we saw last year) both things you don't want to see. You can't look downfield for receivers if your back is facing them and you can't get anything on the ball if you are backing up. Sounds to me like someone needs a large does of humble pie.

sounds to me that we need to let the guy grow up and stop nitpicking every damn thing he says .

the truth is he will need that humble pie served to him . he will need to learn when to give up on a play and make discretion the better part of valor when it needs to be . but losing hair over it solves nothing

if the coach cant live with what he is doing he will be benched period as he should

what i dont get is why is everybody so hell bent on taking away a part of his game he is good at ?

he isnt tom brady or any manning and he wont ever be . the sooner you realize that the better

 

[Sharkinva]

sounds to me that we need to let the guy grow up and stop nitpicking every damn thing he says .

the truth is he will need that humble pie served to him . he will need to learn when to give up on a play and make discretion the better part of valor when it needs to be . but losing hair over it solves nothing

if the coach cant live with what he is doing he will be benched period as he should

what i dont get is why is everybody so hell bent on taking away a part of his game he is good at ?

he isnt tom brady or any manning and he wont ever be . the sooner you realize that the better

Actually I think the sooner he and the coaches realize that the better. I agree that you cant sit here and say RG3 will become a premier pocket passer on the one hand, but then say he will get back to his 2012 form on the other. In 2012 he was NOT a pocket passer. So either he becomes a pocket passer with mobility traits, or he gets back to his 2012 form. But the two are not the same. So the team, coach, QB need to decide what they want and move in that direction. But I think expecting him to perform like he did in 2012... minus the running portion is asking to be let down in some area. He is either the option QB of 2012, or he develops into a more complete QB which will take time and might not be too pretty in the short term.

19 and a half hours until phase one is unveiled... should be interesting.

 

[Sportster 72]

sounds to me that we need to let the guy grow up and stop nitpicking every damn thing he says .

the truth is he will need that humble pie served to him . he will need to learn when to give up on a play and make discretion the better part of valor when it needs to be . but losing hair over it solves nothing

if the coach cant live with what he is doing he will be benched period as he should

what i dont get is why is everybody so hell bent on taking away a part of his game he is good at ?

he isnt tom brady or any manning and he wont ever be . the sooner you realize that the better

dad I respect your support of Griffin and I think you misunderstand what some of us are saying. Nitpicking is part of the NFL, you can't do it to some players and not others.

Not sure who is hell bent on taking away a part of his game. My comments were that he was doing it in a manner that is not good or acceptable. Running is part of his game. All I said is you can't run with your back to the LOS scrimmage because you can't see what is happening down field and you can't back straight up "through" the pocket. There are very sound football reasons for not doing either.

I personally like that Gruden and Allen came out and said Griffin has a long way to go. I prefer that to Shanahan's double talk that says nothing. We don't know but the feeling is he is dealing with Robert in a more straight forward manner. I like that too. The fact remains that some of us were right when we said he was a spread option QB with no pro style QBing experience. That is fine, Gruden can work with that. I think the thing j_y and I are worried about is his willingness to be coached. He seems to keep showing signs of wanting to do it his way. I don't feel any different in my everyday work world. You can bitch and bellyache a certain amount but in the end you need to work within the framework of current managers and if you can't do that you need to go find another job.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

My'daughter thinks rg3 has patrick ramsey disorder , so I said what the hail is that ,she says when qbs takes beatings early in there career and experience a lot of pain they will never ever become a'pocket passer they'are afraid. Some kind of afraid phobia

 

[j_y19]

dad I respect your support of Griffin and I think you misunderstand what some of us are saying. Nitpicking is part of the NFL, you can't do it to some players and not others.

Not sure who is hell bent on taking away a part of his game. My comments were that he was doing it in a manner that is not good or acceptable. Running is part of his game. All I said is you can't run with your back to the LOS scrimmage because you can't see what is happening down field and you can't back straight up "through" the pocket. There are very sound football reasons for not doing either.

I personally like that Gruden and Allen came out and said Griffin has a long way to go. I prefer that to Shanahan's double talk that says nothing. We don't know but the feeling is he is dealing with Robert in a more straight forward manner. I like that too. The fact remains that some of us were right when we said he was a spread option QB with no pro style QBing experience. That is fine, Gruden can work with that. I think the thing j_y and I are worried about is his willingness to be coached. He seems to keep showing signs of wanting to do it his way. I don't feel any different in my everyday work world. You can bitch and bellyache a certain amount but in the end you need to work within the framework of current managers and if you can't do that you need to go find another job.

Sportster, you hit the nail on the head again. Its not that he is still exhibiting habits of being an option QB. Its that he refuses to practice certain aspects of becoming a good pocket passer (pocket awareness, ball security, etc) because he sees it as a waste of time. Almost every one of us have said over the last 2 years, that Robert needs to learn to throw the ball away, he needs to learn to get rid of it quicker, and he needs to learn to move IN the pocket while keeping his eyes down field. Now who thinks he will every become competent in these areas if he doesn't practice them???

Fortunately, it appears Gruden also understands this and will deal with Griff in a more forthright and mature manner. I will be curious to see how Griffin responds when being told what to do on something he disagrees with by a new coach.

 

[Sportster 72]

Funny thing is if he does practice the way the coach wants him to instead of saying "I am going to keep the play alive no matter what" he will get positive re-enforcement from the coaches instead of them having to go have a talk with him.

 

[skinsdad62]

Sportster, you hit the nail on the head again. Its not that he is still exhibiting habits of being an option QB. Its that he refuses to practice certain aspects of becoming a good pocket passer (pocket awareness, ball security, etc) because he sees it as a waste of time. Almost every one of us have said over the last 2 years, that Robert needs to learn to throw the ball away, he needs to learn to get rid of it quicker, and he needs to learn to move IN the pocket while keeping his eyes down field. Now who thinks he will every become competent in these areas if he doesn't practice them???

Fortunately, it appears Gruden also understands this and will deal with Griff in a more forthright and mature manner. I will be curious to see how Griffin responds when being told what to do on something he disagrees with by a new coach.

for the love of god where did you get he doesnt practice pocket awareness or ball security ? because he doesnt want to throw the ball away in practice .

i tell you what lets run throw away the ball drills for him

robert isnt going to get rid of the ball quicker as long as he can make plays with his feet . that is something we will have to live with because he wont want to give up on plays

i got a novel idea , how about the o/line stops allowing instapressure up the mdidlle before his 2nd foot hits the ground ? how about they pick up a stunt or 2 how many times have we seen that in 2 years ?

RG3 has to get better at playing qb as a hole . he needs to make quicker reads , he needs to see things better pre-snap , he needs to keep up with his mechanics and he needs to throw more accurately consistently

but look i wouldnt make a mountain out of a mole hill on throw aways

 

[j_y19]

for the love of god where did you get he doesnt practice pocket awareness or ball security ? because he doesnt want to throw the ball away in practice .

i tell you what lets run throw away the ball drills for him

robert isnt going to get rid of the ball quicker as long as he can make plays with his feet . that is something we will have to live with because he wont want to give up on plays

i got a novel idea , how about the o/line stops allowing instapressure up the mdidlle before his 2nd foot hits the ground ? how about they pick up a stunt or 2 how many times have we seen that in 2 years ?

RG3 has to get better at playing qb as a hole . he needs to make quicker reads , he needs to see things better pre-snap , he needs to keep up with his mechanics and he needs to throw more accurately consistently

but look i wouldnt make a mountain out of a mole hill on throw aways

Dad, how many fumbles did Robert have last year due to hits from behind while he was trying to extend play? A bunch. That's ball security. If he gets rid of it (either by throwing it away or dumping it off) then those fumbles lost go way down.

I don't fault Robert for instapressure up the middle, that's not his fault. I also don't fault him if he doesn't always get rid of it right away. He's a young QB and this is a learning process. I fault him for not practicing it. What you practice becomes second nature. IF you don't practice pocket presence, then you don't learn it. Am I clear now?

Its the same attitude that we have seen from Robert that concerns many of us. He tends to project that he knows it all and will do it his way. Well, he doesn't and he needs to recognize that otherwise Shark's prediction about the guy will prove true.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Dad, how many fumbles did Robert have last year due to hits from behind while he was trying to extend play? A bunch. That's ball security. If he gets rid of it (either by throwing it away or dumping it off) then those fumbles lost go way down.

I don't fault Robert for instapressure up the middle, that's not his fault. I also don't fault him if he doesn't always get rid of it right away. He's a young QB and this is a learning process. I fault him for not practicing it. What you practice becomes second nature. IF you don't practice pocket presence, then you don't learn it. Am I clear now?

Its the same attitude that we have seen from Robert that concerns many of us. He tends to project that he knows it all and will do it his way. Well, he doesn't and he needs to recognize that otherwise Shark's prediction about the guy will prove true.

Truth. I agree. We shall see...soon enough

 

[skinsdad62]

Dad, how many fumbles did Robert have last year due to hits from behind while he was trying to extend play? A bunch. That's ball security. If he gets rid of it (either by throwing it away or dumping it off) then those fumbles lost go way down.

I don't fault Robert for instapressure up the middle, that's not his fault. I also don't fault him if he doesn't always get rid of it right away. He's a young QB and this is a learning process. I fault him for not practicing it. What you practice becomes second nature. IF you don't practice pocket presence, then you don't learn it. Am I clear now?

Its the same attitude that we have seen from Robert that concerns many of us. He tends to project that he knows it all and will do it his way. Well, he doesn't and he needs to recognize that otherwise Shark's prediction about the guy will prove true.

so what you are saying is he cant run at all because he may fumble it ? come on you cant take that part of his game away . or you wont get the run vs minny as a rookie . you dont think he practices ball security ? that is foolishness of course he does

according to espn , he had 5 fumbles with one being lost in 580 touches (pass rush sacks ) he had 12 picks

so by my count it happened one time vs detroit so how many hours do we need to devote to that ?

you dont think he practices pocket presence ? again that is foolishness . and how much of that is natural ?

i think you are wrong . i think he does practice it and you are hung up on throwing the ball away drills

again , you arent going to see much improvement in "throwing the ball away " until he figures out he isnt superman . he is a young colt and he will use his legs to make plays because that is his best attribute at this time

and until he can make defenses do what he wants them to do and knows what they are doing to him he will rely on his best attribute which is running

with a new offense it will take some time to be fluid in that

 

[j_y19]

so what you are saying is he cant run at all because he may fumble it ? come on you cant take that part of his game away . or you wont get the run vs minny as a rookie . you dont think he practices ball security ? that is foolishness of course he does

according to espn , he had 5 fumbles with one being lost in 580 touches (pass rush sacks ) he had 12 picks

so by my count it happened one time vs detroit so how many hours do we need to devote to that ?

you dont think he practices pocket presence ? again that is foolishness . and how much of that is natural ?

i think you are wrong . i think he does practice it and you are hung up on throwing the ball away drills

again , you arent going to see much improvement in "throwing the ball away " until he figures out he isnt superman . he is a young colt and he will use his legs to make plays because that is his best attribute at this time

and until he can make defenses do what he wants them to do and knows what they are doing to him he will rely on his best attribute which is running

with a new offense it will take some time to be fluid in that

Once again you've missed my point. I have no problem with Robert running if the pocket breaks down. But there is a difference between the pocket breaking down and one where pressure requires the QB to step up or to the side to buy that extra second for a play to develop. And if it doesn't, the good ones know to trash the play and regroup. Robert has not learned this yet and if he wants to become a pocket passing QB, he must. The vast majority of this learning curve happens in practice.

As for how much time do I want him to devote to this? Anything more than nothing is a start. Again, dad, it's less about what he does and more about the attitude.