Keeper Help: TKO

[tlance]

I have to disagree with the thought of upgrading Cam.

What constitutes an upgrade? He might be down a little this year, but there is not a QB in the league that I would rather own for the next 10. Upgrading to Brees or Rodgers is a short term move.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I have to disagree with the thought of upgrading Cam.

What constitutes an upgrade? He might be down a little this year, but there is not a QB in the league that I would rather own for the next 10. Upgrading to Brees or Rodgers is a short term move.

Good point. But how about stafford. Should be better than cam this season(fantasy wise) and won't be going anywhere for a while.

Also I don't like the logic of let's play for the distant future in fantasy sports. IMO you should always be playing first for now 2nd for the future.

No matter what tko chooses he will have very good keepers. But he definitely has too many and if trades are allowed he should definitely do what he can to improve.

I just see the position he is most likely to improve on is QB just because the one he has already is a pretty solid young qb. Don't see him getting a big RB or big WR. Because although he is deep with keepers none are really solid first rounders in a 12 team league. All are 2-4 rounders.

 

[leftypower]

I have to disagree with the thought of upgrading Cam.

What constitutes an upgrade? He might be down a little this year, but there is not a QB in the league that I would rather own for the next 10. Upgrading to Brees or Rodgers is a short term move.

Not that it makes any difference since you are keeping Cam, and perhaps it's just me, but I can't see any owner of those guys making that trade straight up. ... I certainly wouldn't because in the Not For Long league, new shining stars will be available before they are shelved.

 

[TKOSpikes]

I just see the position he is most likely to improve on is QB just because the one he has already is a pretty solid young qb. Don't see him getting a big RB or big WR. Because although he is deep with keepers none are really solid first rounders in a 12 team league. All are 2-4 rounders.

The one I already have is a solid, young, durable, mostly top five guy.... and I should trade him? Don't understand your reasoning. And this is an 18 team league.

I certainly wouldn't because in the Not For Long league, new shining stars will be available before they are shelved.

yeah, but more so in the RB/WR capacity... whereas I would need the top pick to get a Luck-like QB.



anyway, this is moot because I'm neither trading nor throwing back Mr. Newton.

on to the Vereen/Stacy/Crabby/Percy/Keenan debate!

 

[SteelersPride]

stacy vereen cam gio

 

[SteelersPride]

vereen poised for big year, and is gonna at least catch 70

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The one I already have is a solid, young, durable, mostly top five guy.... and I should trade him? Don't understand your reasoning. And this is an 18 team league.



yeah, but more so in the RB/WR capacity... whereas I would need the top pick to get a Luck-like QB.



anyway, this is moot because I'm neither trading nor throwing back Mr. Newton.

on to the Vereen/Stacy/Crabby/Percy/Keenan debate!

My point got confusing due to angst about not drafting in the suicide league.

I know you are an 18 team league. My point was to say you have 8 very good keepers but you don't exactly have any studs. So it would be very hard to improve on WR or RB. The only position I could see you being able to improve on via trade is QB since yours right now has the value that one may be wiling to downgrade to. And by packaging in your other potential keepers who u can't keep you can make the package very appealing.

I hope that explains what I was trying to say better. If not I will try again when I get home and can use a computer.

 

[TKOSpikes]

oh, I hear ya now milk... that makes more sense... I still disagree, but I do understand now.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Just wondering. If you do keep 3 RBs what WRs would u expect in the 6th round??

 

[tlance]

I get what you are saying Milk. My point is that Cam may not be as good as Stafford this year, but he is not significantly worse and his long term value is higher. Why pay to upgrade when the guy you are getting is more of a lateral move? I think you are way too low on Cam for this year, and that is weighing heavily on your advice here.

Lefty, I agree that nobody would trade any of the elite QB options for Cam, he would have to give up a high end keeper to make a deal like that, and that simply would not be a good way to use resources.

Here is another thought with regards to preseason trading in general:

Most think that when you have 5 or 6 keepers and you can only retain 4, then you need to make a 2 for 1 trade. The logic is that you can't keep them all, so giving the extra player carries no cost to your team.

Keep in mind though, there is a downside to this move. Trading 2 for 1 where your 2 are keepers for the other guy waters down the quality of the draft pool. When picking late in the first round, a deal like this could reduce the odds that you get the WR you want in round 1.

If the upgrade you receive in the deal is only a marginal one, then the cost of weakening the draft pool could actually nullify the gain in the trade.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I get what you are saying Milk. My point is that Cam may not be as good as Stafford this year, but he is not significantly worse and his long term value is higher. Why pay to upgrade when the guy you are getting is more of a lateral move? I think you are way too low on Cam for this year, and that is weighing heavily on your advice here.

I hope for TKO's sake you are right... I knew i was low on him, but i was surprised to see how low i am on him... And i had him in all my fantasy leagues since he was a rookie... Just not sure what it is about the 2014 season that i just dont like him at all...

 

[averagejoe]

My brain is having trouble articulating, that's my disclaimer before I give my 2 cents:

Cam
Some coaches run an offense with a pedal-to-the-floor mentality. Other coaches run an offense of ball control and rely on their defense. I feel that Cam's coach is in the latter description. This doesn't make Cam a worse play. It was his circumstances last season that dictated his play, and he still did well. Much can change in a season.

Gio
The fact that the Bengals drafted Jeremy Hill in the 2nd round of a weak 2014 RB class raises a red flag to me. (As well as two other UFA RB's.)

Crabtree
My gut says he has a monster year. I like him. My gut also loves White Castle sliders. I love them.

This was probably no help.

 

[TREFF]

My gut also loves White Castle sliders. I love them.

This was probably no help.

That was amazingly helpful, now we all know where to take you when you come to town!

As for Gio, I think the drafting of Hill is much more telling on what they think of BJGE being worth a roster spot than it is any reflection of what Gio's role will be (or won't be)

 

[The Foot]

TKO sorry for the late response I just noticed this post. I would keep Cam Newton Gio, Harvin, n Decker,
Harvin is a huge risk but if he stays healthy it could be a magical combo of Wilson to Harvin all day long. Decker should do well with D's having to focus on my boy Johnson. It would help if Vick gets the nod too.

That's what i woulod do just my opinion! Good luck!

 

[TKOSpikes]

Don't worry Foot, you're not late... I have two months to decide

 

[wilwhite]

I liked Stacy as a sleeper last year, and he should be good this year, but in a keeper league I'm not sure he has the same PPR value as Gio or Vereen. The guys in front of Stacy last year were barely NFL caliber, so I think he got what he got by default.

I'm not excited about Cam but you have no choice.

So it's a question of whether Stacy is better than one of the WRs. Allen probably has the highest upside, Harvin is the most likely to win you games on his own if he plays (the Michael Vick of WRs), Crabtree is the best candidate for moderate improvement. Close call all around.

In an 18-team league, though, it's easier to scrounge for WRs than to scrounge for RBs. The 50th-best WR consistently outscores the 50th-best RB, and by a wide margin (about 125-75 in PPR). I'd much rather start two scrub WRs than a scrub WR and a scrub RB.

So yeah, Cam, Gio, Vereen, Stacy.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I liked Stacy as a sleeper last year, and he should be good this year, but in a keeper league I'm not sure he has the same PPR value as Gio or Vereen. The guys in front of Stacy last year were barely NFL caliber, so I think he got what he got by default.

I'm not excited about Cam but you have no choice.

So it's a question of whether Stacy is better than one of the WRs. Allen probably has the highest upside, Harvin is the most likely to win you games on his own if he plays (the Michael Vick of WRs), Crabtree is the best candidate for moderate improvement. Close call all around.

In an 18-team league, though, it's easier to scrounge for WRs than to scrounge for RBs. The 50th-best WR consistently outscores the 50th-best RB, and by a wide margin (about 125-75 in PPR). I'd much rather start two scrub WRs than a scrub WR and a scrub RB.

So yeah, Cam, Gio, Vereen, Stacy.

Wil, just want to debate a couple of your points... Will help me later on in drafts...

1. You would prefer Vereen over Stacy?? It may be a PPR league but it is also a carries league, so 20 carries=10 Receptions... so in fact I think reception+ carries works better for stacy, so then it really is about who is better In a non PPR league... I personally would prefer Stacy

2. you say you would rather keep 3 RBs than 2 RBs and one WR?? But that means your #2 WR may be weak... so would you rather get your flex before your 2nd WR?? that's really what TKO's main question is!!!

3. What WR would you expect to get in the 6th+ round in such a deep league?? Question 3 has no basis for the keeper list just wondering what type of WR would still be around in a league like this...

 

[tlance]

Wil, just want to debate a couple of your points... Will help me later on in drafts...

1. You would prefer Vereen over Stacy?? It may be a PPR league but it is also a carries league, so 20 carries=10 Receptions... so in fact I think reception+ carries works better for stacy, so then it really is about who is better In a non PPR league... I personally would prefer Stacy

2. you say you would rather keep 3 RBs than 2 RBs and one WR?? But that means your #2 WR may be weak... so would you rather get your flex before your 2nd WR?? that's really what TKO's main question is!!!

3. What WR would you expect to get in the 6th+ round in such a deep league?? Question 3 has no basis for the keeper list just wondering what type of WR would still be around in a league like this...

I am not Wil, but since I had the same advice, I will answer.

If he goes WR/WR with his first two picks, he can probably get one of the guys that he drops and one another solid WR. The elite rookies will all surely go before TKO picks, but I bet there will be some really solid WR vets there for the taking. Also, since I would bet that most everybody is going to be keeping a QB, I will also bet there will be other quality WRs in the draft pool in addition to TKO's guys.

If Stacy or Vereen get dropped, they are likely to be the first overall pick in the re-draft (especially Stacy). Those WRs are all the same, IMO.

Like Wil says, it is easier to fill those WR spots, so that is how I would go. You will have a great RB core and I bet the WRs that you end up with will be comparable to the guys you dump, assuming you fill those spots with your first two picks.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I am not Wil, but since I had the same advice, I will answer.

If he goes WR/WR with his first two picks, he can probably get one of the guys that he drops and one another solid WR. The elite rookies will all surely go before TKO picks, but I bet there will be some really solid WR vets there for the taking. Also, since I would bet that most everybody is going to be keeping a QB, I will also bet there will be other quality WRs in the draft pool in addition to TKO's guys.

If Stacy or Vereen get dropped, they are likely to be the first overall pick in the re-draft (especially Stacy). Those WRs are all the same, IMO.

Like Wil says, it is easier to fill those WR spots, so that is how I would go. You will have a great RB core and I bet the WRs that you end up with will be comparable to the guys you dump, assuming you fill those spots with your first two picks.

the way I see it, there will be 10-15 QBs kept, 5-8 TEs kept,30-35 RBs kept, 30-35 WRs kept

 

[wilwhite]

Did I answer? Guess not...

1. You would prefer Vereen over Stacy?? It may be a PPR league but it is also a carries league, so 20 carries=10 Receptions... so in fact I think reception+ carries works better for stacy, so then it really is about who is better In a non PPR league... I personally would prefer Stacy

Vereen over Stacy especially as a PPR keeper value, because I think Stacy (much like Moreno last year) is in the right place at the right time but not much more than a placeholder for the Rams.

2. you say you would rather keep 3 RBs than 2 RBs and one WR?? But that means your #2 WR may be weak... so would you rather get your flex before your 2nd WR?? that's really what TKO's main question is!!!

I'd ABSOLUTELY get my flex before my second WR, especially if my flex was a top-25 PPR RB in an 18-team league. In this case I'd get him before my first WR. Late WRs are not so bad - the dropoff is shallow - and late RBs are awful, falling right of the cliff into oblivion. What happens when one of his RBs gets hurt? Keeping three RBs, he has options. Otherwise he'd end up starting Peyton Hillis and praying he gets eight touches.

3. What WR would you expect to get in the 6th+ round in such a deep league?? Question 3 has no basis for the keeper list just wondering what type of WR would still be around in a league like this...

Guy like Hartline, probably.