Rookies being a starter

[TCB]

sorry last season it was the entire NFL not conferences as the coaches rice and sanders selected them

when they selected them by conference you had 3 players picked and the next were alternates

You have missed the point completely.
Here are the outside linebackers listed in the probowl for last year.

Von Miller
Tamba Hali
Robert Mathis
Justin Houston
Aldon Smith
Demarcus Ware
Clay Mathews
Chad Greenway
Anthony Spencer
Ryan Kerrigan

Ahmad Brooks dropping out opened the door for Rak. That would put Rak at 10-12.

 

[Sharkinva]

Neither are Elite for me. Kerrigan had more of an impact this past season and was recognized for it. If you want Rak to be a pass rushing specialist and he gets home 15 times, we can talk. Does that mean that we will sit him on 1st and 2nd down? How will he play the run? Does he play the screen pass well. Getting to rush the passer will help his stats. I want to see how he does on every play.

Dude, of the elite OLB you have listed, most play the run on the way to the QB almost every down. But their primary role is to rush the passer, not contain, not coverage. Rak has been tasked with reading the play, play contain, THEN rush the passer. If he played every down and was given the same instructions as Ware, HAli or a slew of other "Elite" OLB's, he would have sack numbers to match.

 

[j_y19]

Dude, of the elite OLB you have listed, most play the run on the way to the QB almost every down. But their primary role is to rush the passer, not contain, not coverage. Rak has been tasked with reading the play, play contain, THEN rush the passer. If he played every down and was given the same instructions as Ware, HAli or a slew of other "Elite" OLB's, he would have sack numbers to match.

While i agree with you that our OLBs over the last few years were used differently than most of these others, I'm not convinced that Rak would have put up similar sack numbers as some of these other guys. Primarily because RAK has never developed other rushing moves. His numbers would have definitely increased, but not to the 15-20 sack level, I don't think. We should know more this year. Hasslett claims he is taking the leash off of him and going to be using him more aggressively. He also has more talent around him so defenses can't just focus in on him with double teams. If he doesn't get 15+ sacks this year, he never will.

 

[Kevin12773]

While i agree with you that our OLBs over the last few years were used differently than most of these others, I'm not convinced that Rak would have put up similar sack numbers as some of these other guys. Primarily because RAK has never developed other rushing moves. His numbers would have definitely increased, but not to the 15-20 sack level, I don't think. We should know more this year. Hasslett claims he is taking the leash off of him and going to be using him more aggressively. He also has more talent around him so defenses can't just focus in on him with double teams. If he doesn't get 15+ sacks this year, he never will.

I agree with this but I don't have a stick up my ass about Rak like someone around here does.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

He is in the good-very good range for me. Give me an all pro, or a pro bowl start, and I will throw that elite word around. If he was snubbed but past my personal eye test for elite, I would sing it until even Skinsdad told me to shut up.

I understand where you're coming from better. Thanks.

While i agree with you that our OLBs over the last few years were used differently than most of these others, I'm not convinced that Rak would have put up similar sack numbers as some of these other guys. Primarily because RAK has never developed other rushing moves. His numbers would have definitely increased, but not to the 15-20 sack level, I don't think. We should know more this year. Hasslett claims he is taking the leash off of him and going to be using him more aggressively. He also has more talent around him so defenses can't just focus in on him with double teams. If he doesn't get 15+ sacks this year, he never will.

This is more along the lines of how I think about Rak. This year will prove interesting.

 

[Sharkinva]

If some one is one demensional (which is the main complaint I hear about Rak) and yet they still produce on par with the more diverse pass rushers... whats the real gripe?? After all, if a guy only has one move, yet he was putting up 15 sacks a year with every one KNOWing his one move, would any one really complain??

 

[Caliskinsfan]

If some one is one demensional (which is the main complaint I hear about Rak) and yet they still produce on par with the more diverse pass rushers... whats the real gripe?? After all, if a guy only has one move, yet he was putting up 15 sacks a year with every one KNOWing his one move, would any one really complain??

Legitimate point if he gets the sacks. But if he doesn't this year, then the complaint is valid. Makes it easier to shut him down if he is not versatile.

 

[TCB]

If some one is one demensional (which is the main complaint I hear about Rak) and yet they still produce on par with the more diverse pass rushers... whats the real gripe?? After all, if a guy only has one move, yet he was putting up 15 sacks a year with every one KNOWing his one move, would any one really complain??

Here is where one of the critical differences in our views lie. You think that those are style points(the lack of diversity in his rush, or at least that we view his having one move mostly). Those of us who think his game is lacking believe he must improve his technique in order to obtain those numbers, along with being complete in the rest of his game. Without those improvements, his achieving elite status, is not possible. He has to expand his repertoire.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Here is where one of the critical differences in our views lie. You think that those are style points(the lack of diversity in his rush, or at least that we view his having one move mostly). Those of us who think his game is lacking believe he must improve his technique in order to obtain those numbers, along with being complete in the rest of his game. Without those improvements, his achieving elite status, is not possible. He has to expand his repertoire.

Stating your view well here. I can see where you're coming from with this perspective.

 

[skinsdad62]

Here is where one of the critical differences in our views lie. You think that those are style points(the lack of diversity in his rush, or at least that we view his having one move mostly). Those of us who think his game is lacking believe he must improve his technique in order to obtain those numbers, along with being complete in the rest of his game. Without those improvements, his achieving elite status, is not possible. He has to expand his repertoire.

the result show he pushes elite . if he gets 14 sacks this year it wont change your opinion

you are one of the mistaken people that thinks rob jackson will make our defense elite

 

[TCB]

the result show he pushes elite . if he gets 14 sacks this year it wont change your opinion

you are one of the mistaken people that thinks rob jackson will make our defense elite

No my man. I ain't ready to go all Rob Jackson up in here. Unless he hooks me up with some tickets.

 

[Sharkinva]

Here is where one of the critical differences in our views lie. You think that those are style points(the lack of diversity in his rush, or at least that we view his having one move mostly). Those of us who think his game is lacking believe he must improve his technique in order to obtain those numbers, along with being complete in the rest of his game. Without those improvements, his achieving elite status, is not possible. He has to expand his repertoire.

But again dude, you are in effect talking about style points. The gripe has been, well he only has one style of rushing the passer. But the reality is, he put up double digit sacks, with his only one move and rushing the passer only 75% as much as a guy like Hali who is considered elite. If you dont think he would have put up five more sacks with the extra 100 or so chances he would have had at rushing the passer, I dont know what to tell you. As for him having a complete game.. again aside from your style points, how much more complete does it need to be?? He is good at rushing the passer, plays run contain and even drops back into pass coverage. Aside from switching over to play offense what more could he do?? I know I know, develop another pass rushing move. But reality is, I dont care if a guy only has one move if that one move produces. Which in this case it does.

 

[TCB]

But again dude, you are in effect talking about style points. The gripe has been, well he only has one style of rushing the passer. But the reality is, he put up double digit sacks, with his only one move and rushing the passer only 75% as much as a guy like Hali who is considered elite. If you dont think he would have put up five more sacks with the extra 100 or so chances he would have had at rushing the passer, I dont know what to tell you. As for him having a complete game.. again aside from your style points, how much more complete does it need to be?? He is good at rushing the passer, plays run contain and even drops back into pass coverage. Aside from switching over to play offense what more could he do?? I know I know, develop another pass rushing move. But reality is, I dont care if a guy only has one move if that one move produces. Which in this case it does.

I don't care about his numbers. I want him to rush inside to open up things for others, as well as keep his guy guessing. I want him to use his hands better to separate from lineman instead of try to get the holding call because I believe he can get home more. If he wants to get better, it will be by adding to his game. Not style points.

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't care about his numbers. I want him to rush inside to open up things for others, as well as keep his guy guessing. I want him to use his hands better to separate from lineman instead of try to get the holding call because I believe he can get home more. If he wants to get better, it will be by adding to his game. Not style points.

So basically you want him to play like Ware. Forget assignment of which Rak has ALWAYS been tasked with contain first then rushing the passer.

 

[TCB]

So basically you want him to play like Ware. Forget assignment of which Rak has ALWAYS been tasked with contain first then rushing the passer.

He will have his hand in the ground now right? Well, everything we have heard now is Rak will be let loose. That can not just mean reps rushing the passer. What ever helps the defense be more dynamic, unpredictable, effective, yada.
He is the best athlete in our front 7 right? Let's see what he can do?