The SportsHoopla QB Rankings: Pt. 6

[SonnyCID]

Read the parameters for the voting. Not talking about longevity and ignoring surrounding talent (clearly Brady's lack of weapons were an issue last year)

Of course guys like him and Peyton can't keep this up forever. But right now, I'd say that Tom Brady is a better QB than Wilson and I'm not sure how anyone else can dispute that. To be honest, I'm shocked that you even brought this up. I mean...Tom Brady is better than Russell Wilson (right now)...he just is. If there was one thing I would hope that (objective) football fans can agree on, it's that Tom Brady is better than Russell Wilson (right now).

Now if I was starting a franchise right now, I would definitely want a younger guy like Wilson, but that's not what this is about.

Kaep was available to vote for at #4 and nobody (including me) voted for him.

Brady wasnt better than Wilson last year.


GASP!!!!! Oh lord, the audicity!

 

[Xponentialchaos]

If you understand it, then why carry on about it like a 2 y/o? Most of us said up front there was no way this was going to be some non biased accurate representation of the national consensus. It's done for fun knowing full well that people are going to share their opinions and that those opinions are going to vary widely and be heavily influenced by their own biases.

I thought you said you were so upset by this that you weren't going to vote anymore? At what point will you then stop bitching over the results thus far? We don't seem to have reached that plateau yet.

Only 2 year-olds are allowed to have an opinion? I was bored, so I provided my opinion. I got a response to my opinion, so I responded back. If that means that I'm carrying on about it like a 2 year old, then you're guilty of the exact same thing. Not sure why you're opposed to discussing the topic on a MESSAGE board.

Where did I say that I was upset by this?

 

[WizardHawk]

I had the option of making the polls public but I felt that some people would not vote if it was a public poll. They have their biases and having their name under the vote might feel that it would appear they were voting only on bias. So if a Seahawks fan really thought that he was number five on the list and the poll was public, then maybe he won't vote because he thinks that people will just see him as a homer. Most people don't care and they will just vote and try to back it up, but I was trying to get everyone possible.

Well we are seeing that far less people are willing to put 10 names on a list. Some might be because of the loss of anonymity, but probably more of it is how much easier it is to click a button than to actually think and put 10 names on a list to begin with.

 

[MHSL82]

Brady wasnt better than Wilson last year.

GASP!!!!! Oh lord, the audicity!

If it is based upon winning, this poll doesn't take that into account. It is just the quarterback and the hypothetical is on a team with average talent everywhere. So if Seattle has a really great defense and the Patriots don't and the winning results are based upon that, that would be irrelevant in this discussion.

Another way I could put it is how would Tom Brady fair compared to Wilson if he were on the 2013 Seahawks team? Winning-wise he couldn't do any better than winning the SB, but performance wise? One might say that Tom Brady is more experienced, but that's what this poll is about. Right now, experience counts. I know the counterpoint would be the fact that Seattle's offensive line isn't as good as the Patriots' and Brady isn't as mobile as Wilson. While the receiving corps for Seattle isn't that great especially when you take out Harvin, one could say that the Patriots receivers are worse.

 

[SonnyCID]

If it is based upon winning, this poll doesn't take that into account. It is just the quarterback and the hypothetical is on a team with average talent everywhere. So if Seattle has a really great defense and the Patriots don't and the winning results are based upon that, that would be irrelevant in this discussion.

Another way I could put it is how would Tom Brady fair compared to Wilson if he were on the 2013 Seahawks team? Winning-wise he couldn't do any better than winning the SB, but performance wise? One might say that Tom Brady is more experienced, but that's what this poll is about. Right now, experience counts. I know the counterpoint would be the fact that Seattle's offensive line isn't as good as the Patriots' and Brady isn't as mobile as Wilson. While the receiving corps for Seattle isn't that great especially when you take out Harvin, one could say that the Patriots receivers are worse.

Wins are part of it. So is production.

63.1% / 8.25 YPA / 26-9 / 101.2 QB rating / Ring

60.2% / 6.92 YPA / 25-11 / 87.3 QB rating

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Wins are part of it. So is production.

63.1% / 8.25 YPA / 26-9 / 101.2 QB rating / Ring

60.2% / 6.92 YPA / 25-11 / 87.3 QB rating

You completely missed his point...

 

[SonnyCID]

You completely missed his point...

... and you're missing ours. Just because Brady was better than Wilson a couple years ago doesn't mean he still is.

 

[SonnyCID]

If it is based upon winning, this poll doesn't take that into account. It is just the quarterback and the hypothetical is on a team with average talent everywhere. So if Seattle has a really great defense and the Patriots don't and the winning results are based upon that, that would be irrelevant in this discussion.

Another way I could put it is how would Tom Brady fair compared to Wilson if he were on the 2013 Seahawks team? Winning-wise he couldn't do any better than winning the SB, but performance wise? One might say that Tom Brady is more experienced, but that's what this poll is about. Right now, experience counts. I know the counterpoint would be the fact that Seattle's offensive line isn't as good as the Patriots' and Brady isn't as mobile as Wilson. While the receiving corps for Seattle isn't that great especially when you take out Harvin, one could say that the Patriots receivers are worse.

Experience should be counted. But so should the possibilities of improvement and regression.

 

[MHSL82]

Well we are seeing that far less people are willing to put 10 names on a list. Some might be because of the loss of anonymity, but probably more of it is how much easier it is to click a button than to actually think and put 10 names on a list to begin with.

Yeah, that is exactly why I did the poll this way instead of what you did. To be honest, I have not provided a list on your thread because I want a specific quarterback to be somewhere between 10 and 15 on your list and they're not there because no one votes for them to be in the top 10. But could I put him as 10th to get him on that list? No. So when you compile your list, it pushes him back. When I found myself thinking about that, I realized that there be no way for me to objectively vote. I might do it later without him on the list because that's not a real list, but not right now.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

... and you're missing ours. Just because Brady was better than Wilson a couple years ago doesn't mean he still is.

Please show me where you think I said that or even implied that.

It's explicitly stated in the parameters that it's about this coming year and not about their body of work.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Some people are just always behind whats actually going on. They're called suckers and they are the reason that Vegas takes bets on sports.

Exactly right, folks are always behind the curve and have to get hit between the eyes before they recognize what is happening. All those going OMG over these polls are going to feel different at the end of next season IMO.

 

[SonnyCID]

Please show me where you think I said that or even implied that.

It's explicitly stated in the parameters that it's about this coming year and not about their body of work.

Of course guys like him and Peyton can't keep this up forever. But right now, I'd say that Tom Brady is a better QB than Wilson and I'm not sure how anyone else can dispute that. To be honest, I'm shocked that you even brought this up. I mean...Tom Brady is better than Russell Wilson (right now)...he just is. If there was one thing I would hope that (objective) football fans can agree on, it's that Tom Brady is better than Russell Wilson (right now).

I wasn't just letting you know that Brady wasn't better that Wilson last year. So he's not better now.

 

[WizardHawk]

Russell Wilson is the #5 QB in the league.

Say that out loud and realize how stupid that sounds. This happened for the exact same reason that Russell Wilson beat out Peyton Manning in the bracketology thing on NFL.

Now before you bash me, just know that I think I'm higher on Wilson than most non-Seahawk fans. I think he's an excellent young quarterback and I'd definitely say that he's one of the better QB's in the league. Furthermore, as much as it pains me to say it, I think he's significantly better than Kaepernick right now. But #5?!?! That's just stupid.

MHSL, I'm not sure exactly what you were intending to accomplish with this poll idea, but I think it may have just been greatly skewed by homer bias and imo, it's no longer credible. Good luck with this, but I'm not going to be contributing anymore.

Yeah, that is exactly why I did the poll this way instead of what you did. To be honest, I have not provided a list on your thread because I want a specific quarterback to be somewhere between 10 and 15 on your list and they're not there because no one votes for them to be in the top 10. But could I put him as 10th to get him on that list? No. So when you compile your list, it pushes him back. When I found myself thinking about that, I realized that there be no way for me to objectively vote. I might do it later without him on the list because that's not a real list, but not right now.

Well you are free to do your own lists your way. While we are both looking at next season I limited mine to just the top 10. Partially because even less people would respond if it was 15 or more and partially because there is likely far less interest beyond the top 10 or so.

My list has names beyond the first 10, but as you go deeper down it is less relevant because 15th doesn't mean most people feel they will be 15th best, but rather they were the 15th person with votes placing them somewhere in the top 10.

 

[WizardHawk]

Please show me where you think I said that or even implied that.

It's explicitly stated in the parameters that it's about this coming year and not about their body of work.

And what criteria do people use to forecast next season? Oh that's right, this season.

When you are trying to decide who will have the better season next year you have to look at what they did with the team they had this year and project it into your best guess about what they might do next year with what pieces they might have around them. That's the point.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

I wasn't just letting you know that Brady wasn't better that Wilson last year. So he's not better now.

The bolded part clearly says "right now". I was talking about right now.

Your statement was: "... and you're missing ours. Just because Brady was better than Wilson a couple years ago doesn't mean he still is."

Again. Did I, at any point, refer to Brady's level of play "a couple years ago" as a reason to say that Brady is better than Wilson?

 

[SonnyCID]

The bolded part clearly says "right now". I was talking about right now.

Your statement was: "... and you're missing ours. Just because Brady was better than Wilson a couple years ago doesn't mean he still is."

Again. Did I, at any point, refer to Brady's level of play "a couple years ago" as a reason to say that Brady is better than Wilson?

No, but you said that he's better right now. I pointed to last year as an argument as to why that's wrong.

When you're done playing these semantics games perhaps you can tell me why Brady is better right now even though he wasn't last year. I just assumed that you were using previous years as reference since that's all there is. to go of if we're ignoring last year.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The bolded part clearly says "right now". I was talking about right now.

Your statement was: "... and you're missing ours. Just because Brady was better than Wilson a couple years ago doesn't mean he still is."

Again. Did I, at any point, refer to Brady's level of play "a couple years ago" as a reason to say that Brady is better than Wilson?

Paint anyway you want, It is not unreasonable for someone to think Brady best days are behind him and he won't be a top 5 QB next year. Change is coming, don't get all upset because you don't agree, just bookmark these polls for down the road if you like.

 

[MHSL82]

And what criteria do people use to forecast next season? Oh that's right, this season.

When you are trying to decide who will have the better season next year you have to look at what they did with the team they had this year and project it into your best guess about what they might do next year with what pieces they might have around them. That's the point.

You are absolutely right when you say that you have to look at last year. However, I was trying to make their surrounding cast irrelevant. So I would be looking at how they are as a quarterback. That includes maturity, physical skills, decision-making, mental aptitude, etc.

I know that sounds weird and it's hard to put a gauge on it. But if I were to say who has the most yards or who has the least interceptions or had the most touchdowns, or who would win most, this would be heavily dependent upon system and surrounding cast. A better quarterback on a worse team would fare worse.

Often the better quarterback will make the team better and so therefore the team will not struggle too much, however every quarterback would do better with a better surrounding cast. Matt Stafford would lead the in yards, but I wouldn't say he's the best quarterback. I would say that he has a good system for yards production and a great receiver. He has a strong arm and a willingness to take risks, but that doesn't make him better quarterback per se.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

And what criteria do people use to forecast next season? Oh that's right, this season.

When you are trying to decide who will have the better season next year you have to look at what they did with the team they had this year and project it into your best guess about what they might do next year with what pieces they might have around them. That's the point.

No idea what you're objecting to from me in this post. Of course we use this season to forecast next season.

I was just telling your fellow brethren that I'm not basing future projections on a body of work. Recent history, sure. But I'm not saying Tom Brady is better than Wilson right now simply because he has 3 rings that he won several years ago.

Again, my belief that Tom Brady is better than Wilson right now is about my perception of how good Tom Brady is right now, not on his Hall of Fame career accomplishments.

 

[RoboticDreams]

... and you're missing ours. Just because Brady was better than Wilson a couple years ago doesn't mean he still is.

But but, he is, right?