look at these cuts

[Sharkinva]

No one is beating anyone out by June 1. They won't even have begun practice by then. This means that Chester has to go into training camp and you lose your cap savings this year. What are you trying to save? The worst offensive guard in the league? The $4M that you save by cutting him this year can land a pretty darn good, experienced guard like wade smith or jon asamoah, or even ritchie incognito (if you were so inclined). There are 7 ro 8 FA guards available that would all come in for the savings on Chester that would out perform him.

they dont have to be beat out BY june first, just after June first. What Im trying to save is us from being forced to overpay a FA because we over reacted and assumed that any one would be better. If we bring some one in and they get beat out fine, cut them. But if we cut them under the assumption that any one on the planet could do better, I would bet the title to my car we get fucked.

 

[j_y19]

Dude, it seems to me that you the one that is being emotional here. Who says overpay? I can't understand what you are trying to maintain by advocating keeping proven under performers that are overpaid. Chester, Bowen and Carriker and not linchpins to some great team. They represent the type of players that are keeping us from advancing.

 

[Sharkinva]

Dude, it seems to me that you the one that is being emotional here. Who says overpay? I can't understand what you are trying to maintain by advocating keeping proven under performers that are overpaid. Chester, Bowen and Carriker and not linchpins to some great team. They represent the type of players that are keeping us from advancing.

I will give you Carriker. But if you cut Bowen and Chester, you have to replace them. It costs the team less over all to carry them into training camp and cut them after june first than to just cut them outright right now. And IF, I stress IF, no one beats them out in training camp, we are no worse off than we were. Where as if we cut them now, and we are forced to start a fat body Lerebius and some other FA because we have no other option, we could be worse off.

 

[Sharkinva]

Bottom line. Do we need to cut any of these guys right now to get under the cap?? NO. Would it be smarter to bring in guys to compete with these guys and if they do get beat out in camp cut them then?? Yes. If we do it my way, are we any worse off?? Not really.

If we cut them now and end up stuck with LeRebius and his ever expanding belly, and some other guys who were not ready to start, are we worse off?? You bet your last penny. Bring in competition, if they get beat out, cut them. But cutting them with the concept that any one could do better is an emotional reaction more so than a smart move.

 

[countryroads316]

Polumbus has to go as well he is terrible I watched him give up sack after sack

 

[skinz2winz]

I would be inclined to give Baker Bowen's snaps with Jenkins as the backup along with a DE draft pick. Maybe even hold on to Cedric as a backup. That leaves us Coefield, Baker, Jenkins, Nield, Goldsten, FA & draft pick to fight for (3) spots. Hopefully we draft a NG or sign one in FA. I don't think we miss Carriker or Bowen by any means...

 

[Sharkinva]

I would be inclined to give Baker Bowen's snaps with Jenkins as the backup along with a DE draft pick. Maybe even hold on to Cedric as a backup. That leaves us Coefield, Baker, Jenkins, Nield, Goldsten, FA & draft pick to fight for (3) spots. Hopefully we draft a NG or sign one in FA. I don't think we miss Carriker or Bowen by any means...

Skins... my point is simple. We dont need to cut ANY of these guys before training camp. Now if we sign or draft some one who beats them out, then fine cut them. But to cut any of them NOW, when we are not in a position where we need to cut some one for cap space is simply an emotional reactionary move. Bring in guys to compete for the spots. If Bowen, Carriker, or any of them get beat out, cut them. But to simply cut them now with the idea that any one can do better makes no sense.

 

[gkekoa]

Starting DEs are Jenkins and Baker. You can cut both Carriker and Bowen...backups would be Golston (cheap sign) and hopefully a rookie or another cheap FA...there are a few that will be on the market that are comparable and more healthy than both...and will probably come cheaper such as Tyson Jackson.













G/C is another interesting position. Chester hasn't been healthy and doesn't fit the new system (if Gruden runs it like CINCY). He's a sure cut. Lich and Monty could both leave as well. Let's see what the market for a G is in FA. There are a few out there at a comparable price. We also have Gettis and Leribeus. One of those can definitely take a starting job. We will draft a G/C at some point in this draft.







Polumbus needs to stay. At worst he's a solid backup. All those who say he was horrible last year...his stats don't say that.

 

[Sharkinva]

Look guy, I get it where every one has a player (or five) where you can say oh god he sucks and needs to be cut right away. We could use the cap space else where and he doesnt deserve the money. But once you get past the emotional side of it and look at it logically here is what will likely happen.

1. We dont currently need to cut any one in order to get under the cap or even to try and sign some one else. This is obviously subject to change. But as it sits we are almost $27 million below the cap. So we have the space to sign Rak, Riley and whom ever else we want within reason.

2. We are not hurting for a roster spot to bring some one in since its the off season and we can carry up to 90 bodies for the next few months. So again no pressing need to cut any of these guys right this moment. It likely serves the team etter to carry them into training camp or at least until mid June and then decide.

 

[Lonewate44]

Skins... my point is simple. We dont need to cut ANY of these guys before training camp. Now if we sign or draft some one who beats them out, then fine cut them. But to cut any of them NOW, when we are not in a position where we need to cut some one for cap space is simply an emotional reactionary move. Bring in guys to compete for the spots. If Bowen, Carriker, or any of them get beat out, cut them. But to simply cut them now with the idea that any one can do better makes no sense.

I totally get your argument, and you are right.....why not let them compete.....However........

for their salary, they will not performe up to that salary....both are coming off major injuries...cariker hasnt played in 2 years...3-4 surgeries to fix, and what I hear most people like him never come bac,..Bowen..His age..Microfracture surgery....good luck......They willNEVER perfrom to their contract......

i can see it now.....tell them to take less or cut them...which we could do....but I dont want to go into the season with guys like them that more then likely dont make it very long into the season before IR.....so cut bait on them now.....Anyone we get in ...can't be any worse then them......and I will say this.......this franchise gets its chops beat up all the time....how about we do something good for the players... cut them now, and let them try to find work somewhere else....as a way of thanking them for their service.....instead of cutting in camp, where it will be harder for them to get a job?

 

[gkekoa]

I wasn't emotional at all and justified cutting Carriker, Bowen, Chester, and Lich/Monty.

 

[Sharkinva]

I wasn't emotional at all and justified cutting Carriker, Bowen, Chester, and Lich/Monty.

GK... any time some one makes a statement like "This guy should be cut outright and we could easily find some one better for less" to a degree this is a statement based on emotion or how one feels about a player. Simply put, for every player under contract that you cut, you need to find a replacement. Im not saying that these guys shouldnt be cut, or in the end wont or might not get cut.

What I am saying is, the team would be smarter to not make rash decisions on any of these guys (aside from maybe carriker) without having not only a plan, but an actual player in place to replace them. We are not in a position where we have GOT to offload contracts in the next two weeks in order to get under the cap. So there really is no need to rush things. the contracts in question wont Skew the rule of 51 cap figures in any way shape or form. And the only thing accomplished by cutting them now aside from the cap space that we arent desperate for, is basically a feel good move in saying, we are going to bring in different players to play these positions. But lets face it, if we dont cut Polumbus, but we sign say Roger Saffold, it serves the same purpose to say... Polumbus likely isnt starting and needs to earn his spot on the roster.

 

[gkekoa]

There is no emotion in cutting Carriker. He hasn't been healthy in two seasons. A warm body is more valuable than that and you can get a warm body for 2 mil/season.


Chester was the worst starting G in the league last season and he doesn't fit the system. You can get another worst starter in the league for the 2 mil you save with him that does fit the system.


Bowen is another injury risk. If you save 2 mil by cutting him, can you find a replacement? We already did with Baker, so Bowen is expendable. You wouldn't have Bowen as a 5 mil backup would you?


Lich/Monty...I can't see getting rid of both because I don't know if you can replace both with the cap savings. I think you can get rid of one because Gettis or Leribeus can come in...at worst they are not much worse than Lich/Monty. With their savings we can upgrade another position.

 

[Lonewate44]

GK... any time some one makes a statement like "This guy should be cut outright and we could easily find some one better for less" to a degree this is a statement based on emotion or how one feels about a player. Simply put, for every player under contract that you cut, you need to find a replacement. Im not saying that these guys shouldnt be cut, or in the end wont or might not get cut.

What I am saying is, the team would be smarter to not make rash decisions on any of these guys (aside from maybe carriker) without having not only a plan, but an actual player in place to replace them. We are not in a position where we have GOT to offload contracts in the next two weeks in order to get under the cap. So there really is no need to rush things. the contracts in question wont Skew the rule of 51 cap figures in any way shape or form. And the only thing accomplished by cutting them now aside from the cap space that we arent desperate for, is basically a feel good move in saying, we are going to bring in different players to play these positions. But lets face it, if we dont cut Polumbus, but we sign say Roger Saffold, it serves the same purpose to say... Polumbus likely isnt starting and needs to earn his spot on the roster.

I see what your sayng and can't really find any fault in your logic.....however....(you knew that was coming)


maybe it says to the players, and fans alike......

Ok...we are sick of overpaying players to underperform in their jobs, and we are getting rid of the dead weight and committed to finding better players that will do a better job and turn this team around and make us winners...theses players helped get this team to a 3-13 record, and we are going a different direction in hopes of improving the team and the record....

 

[Sharkinva]

I see what your sayng and can't really find any fault in your logic.....however....(you knew that was coming)


maybe it says to the players, and fans alike......

Ok...we are sick of overpaying players to underperform in their jobs, and we are getting rid of the dead weight and committed to finding better players that will do a better job and turn this team around and make us winners...theses players helped get this team to a 3-13 record, and we are going a different direction in hopes of improving the team and the record....

Dude, I totally agree with being committed to finding better players. But logically it would be smarter to hold onto the players we have UNTIL we actually have their replacements in place. We dont want to end up in a situation like we did when we let Rogers leave and ended up with Josh Wilson. Or when we cut Atogwe and ended up with Mediue Williams starting. As i said, sure we can cut these guys and save the cap space, but there is no logical reason to make those moves right now. No matter how crappy you think something is, you dont simply throw it out and assume you can replace it. You line up your replacement first, then jettison the old piece. By holding them until their replacement is in place, you assure that you are likely no worse off. Where as you cut them now with no replacement in place and all of a sudden you are actually at risk until such time as you replace them. And i have brought up MANY examples where we assumed we could get better production for less and it has bitten us in the ass repeatedly. Seeing as we are in a position to NOT have to force the issue, I dont think the team makes a move on any of these guys save maybe Carriker before June. Cutting them now would feel good sure, but in reality its not very logical.

 

[gkekoa]

Holding onto players after certain deadlines costs us money. I'm a believer in holding onto them up until deadlines but then you have to make a choice.

 

[Lonewate44]

Dude, I totally agree with being committed to finding better players. But logically it would be smarter to hold onto the players we have UNTIL we actually have their replacements in place. We dont want to end up in a situation like we did when we let Rogers leave and ended up with Josh Wilson. Or when we cut Atogwe and ended up with Mediue Williams starting. As i said, sure we can cut these guys and save the cap space, but there is no logical reason to make those moves right now. No matter how crappy you think something is, you dont simply throw it out and assume you can replace it. You line up your replacement first, then jettison the old piece. By holding them until their replacement is in place, you assure that you are likely no worse off. Where as you cut them now with no replacement in place and all of a sudden you are actually at risk until such time as you replace them. And i have brought up MANY examples where we assumed we could get better production for less and it has bitten us in the ass repeatedly. Seeing as we are in a position to NOT have to force the issue, I dont think the team makes a move on any of these guys save maybe Carriker before June. Cutting them now would feel good sure, but in reality its not very logical.

Like I said...i find no fault in your reasoning...however...everyone knows Cariker and bowen are done.....2 years out and 4 surgeries for Cariker....he is done.....bowen his age...microfracture surgery....DONE....get rid of them for sure.....as far as alot of the rest...I totally get it....but we have replacements on the oline already.....We already have potential replacements on the roster as backups, and they cant do any worse!!!!

 

[Sharkinva]

Holding onto players after certain deadlines costs us money. I'm a believer in holding onto them up until deadlines but then you have to make a choice.

Actually it works out better if we hold all the players mentioned until after June 1st. If we cut Bowen, Carriker, Chester and Montgomery now it gives up $34 million in cap space this year and $62 next year

If we made them June 1st cuts it gives us $40 million this year and $56 next year. So yes we lose $6 million off of next year. But we dont then put ourselves in a position where we have no other option but to find starters this year. If we draft or sign guys and they beat these guys out, great. We cut them post June 1st. If we cut them now we leave no other option than signing starters and if we cant sign guys better, we are worse off. Simple logic man, you dont fire a guy and just assume you can find his replacement if you have a choice. You line up the replacement, ensure that he can do the job, then fire the guy you wanted to get rid of.

 

[Sharkinva]

Like I said...i find no fault in your reasoning...however...everyone knows Cariker and bowen are done.....2 years out and 4 surgeries for Cariker....he is done.....bowen his age...microfracture surgery....DONE....get rid of them for sure.....as far as alot of the rest...I totally get it....but we have replacements on the oline already.....We already have potential replacements on the roster as backups, and they cant do any worse!!!!

And every time we think like that, we end up with guys like Mediue Williams starting. I agree Carriker is likely gone. Same for Bowen.

 

[j_y19]

And every time we think like that, we end up with guys like Mediue Williams starting. I agree Carriker is likely gone. Same for Bowen.

Shark, the point you are missing is we can't afford to keep these guys. They are way overpriced for the production (or non production)that they bring. I'll say it again, we can get guys much cheaper to be non productive.

We need their cap money to sign the guys we want to keep. Rak, Riley, Baker, Hall as well as 2 safeties and ILB, a WR, and an OL or two. While we have some cap room, its not as much as everyone thinks. We have a lot of holes. We are not making more holes by cutting Carriker, Bowen and chester. They are non performers. Cutting them frees up over $10M in cap space alone this year. We need that money.