This pisses me off

[Cloud]

Dean Blandino, head of NFL officials, says hit on Kevin Huber was illegal - ESPN

Huber ended up suffering a broken jaw and cracked vertebrae on the play. Placed on injured reserve Tuesday, his season is now over.


The problem I have here is the fact he suffered a cracked vertebrae from the hit that could've been a lot worse.

I happened to watch the play happened at the time and knew immediately it was an illegal play, despite no flag being thrown. Only now did the NFL come out an acknowledge the play was illegal and a penalty should've been drawn.

I understand he's a punter but there's no need for that type of hit in the NFL and then not get penalized for it. You protect QB's on ticky tacky hits to the head but failed to acknowledge this type of helmet-to-helmet hit to a punter or kicker at the time being.

The player that hit him is getting fined, but I think a suspension of some kind is in order. How many times are the Stealers going to get away with this type of bullshit?

 

[Podunkparte]

I completely disagree. I see this exactly the same way I see "defenseless receivers:" complete bullshit. You're a football player on a football field during an ongoing play. You better anticipate being hit when you're moving one direction and looking in another. Huber is not out there to talk the Steelers player down from running any farther. He's there to stop the returner. Well the other PIT players' jobs are to stop the CIN players from doing so.

The hit wasn't dirty because, just like the Tate hit on Sean Lee last year, the initial contact was made in the chest (where the NFL says players should target) and rose up under the helmet. If Huber had been looking around like he should have, he would have seen the giant PIT player in front of him coming to lay a hit. Instead he was looking over his shoulder, which for some reason makes him defenseless.

Instead of treating players like moronic children, the league should be telling them that keeping their heads on a swivel may prevent these viscous hits. If I'm on the freeway going 60 and looking in the backseat the whole time, I'm not going to pretend I was defenseless when I slam into the car in front of me.

 

[Podunkparte]

The hit doesn't look like helmet to helmet to me. It looks like the PIT player's shoulder goes into the upper chest of the CIN player and he pushes with his forearms afterward.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMS4nTP0iis]Cincinnati Bengals punter Kevin Huber demolished on a blindside hit - YouTube[/ame]

Again, the problem here is the receiving player not being aware of his surroundings. Why is this acceptable on a field of open hitting? If you're a football player involved in a play you are not defenseless!

 

[Cloud]

Rules are still rules and a penalty should've been drawn. Yes, he was pursuing the play, but he was blindsided and got hit in the head/neck area. That is illegal, see the rules below. If you're looking for a block fine, but don't go head-hunting.

(g) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or
facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily.
Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards.
The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant.

1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; and
(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body.

 

[Cloud]

The hit doesn't look like helmet to helmet to me. It looks like the PIT player's shoulder goes into the upper chest of the CIN player and he pushes with his forearms afterward.

Cincinnati Bengals punter Kevin Huber demolished on a blindside hit - YouTube

Again, the problem here is the receiving player not being aware of his surroundings. Why is this acceptable on a field of open hitting? If you're a football player involved in a play you are not defenseless!

It was still a hit in the head/neck area. This explained the broken jaw, missing teeth, and cracked vertebrae.
The defenseless stance is debatable, but the underline statement is that it was an illegal hit.

 

[dude82]

Dean Blandino, head of NFL officials, says hit on Kevin Huber was illegal - ESPN

Huber ended up suffering a broken jaw and cracked vertebrae on the play. Placed on injured reserve Tuesday, his season is now over.


The problem I have here is the fact he suffered a cracked vertebrae from the hit that could've been a lot worse.

I happened to watch the play happened at the time and knew immediately it was an illegal play, despite no flag being thrown. Only now did the NFL come out an acknowledge the play was illegal and a penalty should've been drawn.

I understand he's a punter but there's no need for that type of hit in the NFL and then not get penalized for it. You protect QB's on ticky tacky hits to the head but failed to acknowledge this type of helmet-to-helmet hit to a punter or kicker at the time being.

The player that hit him is getting fined, but I think a suspension of some kind is in order. How many times are the Stealers going to get away with this type of bullshit?

There's been a mentality in the league for decades now that kickers aren't "real" football players, even though they're the only ones in the sport who actually use their feet (intentionally, anyway) to play. It used to be that kickers did more than just kick, but that went out the window when teams started turning that position into a specialist position and slowly did away with the running back or quarterback (or whichever player at another position had the best leg) who also kicked. Back then, if you tried to hit one of those guys like that, they'd hit you back because they were used to taking hits and could dish them out too.

Now you just have to hope that your kicker doesn't try to go after the returner because of hits like the one Huber took (or the one that Hauschka took earlier this year, for that matter). I personally think that "roughing the kicker" should be called on plays like the one Huber got hurt on and not just when kickers or punters get plowed into on attempts to block a kick. Quarterbacks are more used to taking hits, but if you hit them in the wrong spot, at the wrong time or both, you can still get called for roughing the passer even if the hit doesn't do the kind of damage this hit did to Huber, so why shouldn't a player who isn't used to much contact be just as protected, if not more?

 

[Cloud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9hlCbwdKjk

Here's a close up play of the hit. Again, I understand he's trying to make a play, therefore to say that he's a defenseless player is debatable. But I don't necessary agree with the hit as it look like Gavin was clearly aiming for his head/neck area.

 

[Podunkparte]

It was still a hit in the head/neck area. This explained the broken jaw, missing teeth, and cracked vertebrae.
The defenseless stance is debatable, but the underline statement is that it was an illegal hit.

Well I'm still in the boat of thinking the NFL's definition of illegal hits are garbage. Yes, if you're head hunting you deserve punishment, but a 6'7" man crouching to hit a 6' man, which is legal in the NFL, means his shoulder can only go so low. It's a bang bang play without ill intent. If the CIN punter didn't want to end up hurt he should have been watching where he was going.

You're arguing for what the rules are. I'm arguing for what they should be. I'm hoping we're not rooting for Earl Thomas every time he pulls the flag out of Frank Gore's waistband.

 

[Cloud]

There's been a mentality in the league for decades now that kickers aren't "real" football players, even though they're the only ones in the sport who actually use their feet (intentionally, anyway) to play. It used to be that kickers did more than just kick, but that went out the window when teams started turning those players into specialists and slowly did away with the running back or quarterback who also kicked. Back then, if you tried to hit one of those guys like that, they'd hit you back.

Now you just have to hope that your kicker doesn't try to go after the returner because of hits like the one Huber took (or the one that Hauschka took earlier this year, for that matter). I personally think that "roughing the kicker" should be called on plays like the one Huber got hurt on and not just when kickers or punters get plowed into on attempts to block a kick. Quarterbacks are more used to taking hits, but if you hit them in the wrong spot, at the wrong time or both, you can still get called for roughing the passer even if the hit doesn't do the kind of damage this hit did to Huber, so why shouldn't a player who isn't used to much contact be just as protected, if not more?

No, I don't think it should've been "roughing the kicker" -- He kicked the ball already, it should've been a Peronal Foul Unnecessary Roughness like ANY other Personal Foul penalties we've seen.

 

[Podunkparte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9hlCbwdKjk

Here's a close up play of the hit. Again, I understand he's trying to make a play, therefore to say that he's a defenseless player is debatable. But I don't necessary agree with the hit as it look like Gavin was clearly aiming for his head/neck area.

He's not aiming. His head is down and he's clearly much bigger than the punter. It's a split second play that happens countless times every week but when you have the mismatch in size, you can have body parts inadvertently hit other body parts. Put yourself in that moment without the benefit of slow mo replay. That is just football.

 

[dude82]

No, I don't think it should've been "roughing the kicker" -- He kicked the ball already, it should've been a Peronal Foul Unnecessary Roughness like ANY other Personal Foul penalties we've seen.

That's what roughing the passer is, but they call it roughing the passer, and the ball is almost always out of the quarterback's hands when a hit on him results in that call, so I don't see the difference between that and when a kicker has already kicked the ball.

 

[Podunkparte]

There's been a mentality in the league for decades now that kickers aren't "real" football players, even though they're the only ones in the sport who actually use their feet (intentionally, anyway) to play. It used to be that kickers did more than just kick, but that went out the window when teams started turning that position into a specialist position and slowly did away with the running back or quarterback (or whichever player at another position had the best leg) who also kicked. Back then, if you tried to hit one of those guys like that, they'd hit you back because they were used to taking hits and could dish them out too.

Now you just have to hope that your kicker doesn't try to go after the returner because of hits like the one Huber took (or the one that Hauschka took earlier this year, for that matter). I personally think that "roughing the kicker" should be called on plays like the one Huber got hurt on and not just when kickers or punters get plowed into on attempts to block a kick. Quarterbacks are more used to taking hits, but if you hit them in the wrong spot, at the wrong time or both, you can still get called for roughing the passer even if the hit doesn't do the kind of damage this hit did to Huber, so why shouldn't a player who isn't used to much contact be just as protected, if not more?

If the kickers want to be treated differently than the other football players out on the field, they can't also be trying to stop the returner. At that point you become a target just like anyone else.

 

[Cloud]

Well I'm still in the boat of thinking the NFL's definition of illegal hits are garbage. Yes, if you're head hunting you deserve punishment, but a 6'7" man crouching to hit a 6' man, which is legal in the NFL, means his shoulder can only go so low. It's a bang bang play without ill intent. If the CIN punter didn't want to end up hurt he should have been watching where he was going.

You're arguing for what the rules are. I'm arguing for what they should be. I'm hoping we're not rooting for Earl Thomas every time he pulls the flag out of Frank Gore's waistband.

I think Gavin knew where the punter was and aimed for him, so it's hard for me to say there isn't any ill intent on the play. I see it a lot in the NFL where players aim for the kickers and punters whenever they get the chance to.

My definition of a bang/bang play is when players are very close to each other in proximity trying to make plays. In this case, it looked like Gavin was clearly going after Huber.

Also, it's hard to blame Huber for trying to make a play to help his team. He paid the ultimate price for it, but it's probably something I wouldn't do if I was a punter/kicker.

 

[Podunkparte]

That's what roughing the passer is, but they call it roughing the passer, and the ball is almost always out of the quarterback's hands when a hit on him results in that call, so I don't see the difference between that and when a kicker has already kicked the ball.

A QB has given up on affecting the play. He's standing there doing nothing when hit = Roughing the passer.

A kicker has just kicked the ball. He's doing nothing and is hit in a vulnerable position (leg up, plant leg locked)= Roughing the kicker

Long after the ball has landed in the returner's hands and he's making his way toward the endzone, if the football player who had earlier kicked the ball is trying to tackle the returner, why should he be given any sort of leniency regarding being blocked like the other 10 guys? That makes absolutely no sense unless you're Roger Goodell.

 

[Cloud]

If the kickers want to be treated differently than the other football players out on the field, they can't also be trying to stop the returner. At that point you become a target just like anyone else.

This is true and I agree with you 100% but you also have to hit them as other football players as well.

 

[Podunkparte]

I think Gavin knew where the punter was and aimed for him, so it's hard for me to say there isn't any ill intent on the play. I see it a lot in the NFL where players aim for the kickers and punters whenever they get the chance to.

My definition of a bang/bang play is when players are very close to each other in proximity trying to make plays. In this case, it looked like Gavin was clearly going after Huber.

Also, it's hard to blame Huber for trying to make a play to help his team. He paid the ultimate price for it, but it's probably something I wouldn't do if I was a punter/kicker.

Ok, but is Huber a football player wearing pads and a helmet or is he not? Since when did kickers have an unfair right to tackle the returner without the consequence of being hit? If this were a safety being hit would the discussion be different? It certainly shouldn't be.

 

[Cloud]

He's not aiming. His head is down and he's clearly much bigger than the punter. It's a split second play that happens countless times every week but when you have the mismatch in size, you can have body parts inadvertently hit other body parts. Put yourself in that moment without the benefit of slow mo replay. That is just football.

I guess your interpretation and mine on the play is different. I watched the play live at the time and thought it was an illegal hit. The NFL came out and said it was an illegal hit.

 

[Podunkparte]

This is true and I agree with you 100% but you also have to hit them as other football players as well.

And I see the PIT player hitting the guy as he would any football player: hard and in the padding. Maybe a few more days in the weight room would have done that punter some good.

 

[Cloud]

Ok, but is Huber a football player wearing pads and a helmet or is he not? Since when did kickers have an unfair right to tackle the returner without the consequence of being hit? If this were a safety being hit would the discussion be different? It certainly shouldn't be.

And that's perfectly fine, once the ball is in the air and the kicker is trying to make a play on the returner, he is fair game to be hit. It is the type of hit that these players take whether it be punter or any other special team players on the field is in question.

Does Huber deserve to be hit? Absolutely!
Was he defenseless as the NFL described it? Debatable, but I don't think he was.
Was the hit unnecessary roughness? Absolutely Yes.

 

[dude82]

You're kidding yourself if you don't think there are players or teams out there who target the kicker/punter whenever possible. Bounty-gate proved that teams aren't above headhunting and since kickers/punters are generally the least athletic guys on a team and generally the easiest guys to take out, it isn't that much of a stretch to suggest that a team or a player would go after a kicker or a punter with the intention of knocking him out of the game. Whether that happened on this particular play or not, it's hard to say, but it does happen.