Cousins played very well

[Lonewate44]

Lonewatt... lets be honest on the whole RG3 is a difference maker thing. He did very well in a gimmick system which he excelled at. The question of if he can transition to a more traditional QB role is debatable at the moment. I dont buy the concept that Mike and Kyle didnt try and improve his skills and basically said well all he can run is the read option. Yea we are going to bring in a new coach, but that does not guarantee fixing the issues of this team.

Shark......

Gimmick or not...He did PROVE he can put a team on his back and will them to victories....That my friend are what the great QBS can do....Brady, Manning, Elway, Montana.....am I putting him with those guys? ABSOLUTLY NOT!!!!!! I am merely indicating that he did do that last year.....I fully believe, that he can transition to a more pro style attack..He has the Arm, he can make all the throws....He is a smart Man, it is a matter of learning it.....HOWEVER.....since he was Rehabbing the knee, he couldn't focus on the fundamentals of being a QB......Now that he is benched, and wont get hurt, he will have an entire offseason in which to work on those traits....

I believe Mike and Kyle did the easy thing in year1, and taylor an offesne to fit what he was best at becasue Shannahan NEEDED to win...he had back to back double digit loss seasons, and Had to do something...I believe they intended to teach those things after rookies season, but the injury kept that from happening....

I know you are willing to give up on him, and just Piss away all those picks, and chalk it up to another terrible move by the Skins, but I wont....I have seen enough in RGIII and call it faith......I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he can and will work hard in the offseason, take the benching as a motivating thing, and come back an improved QB...then next year, I will love to see you eating crow...

 

[Sharkinva]

I hope you are right. But what i expect is, we bring in a new coach. They try to make him a pocket passer, and if it fails we see the blaim game and excuses made again. I dont have faith because he has never BEEN a pocket passer. And his comments this past season tell me that RG3 truely believes that none of this was his fault. And we are simply going to enable that line of thinking by firing the whole coaching staff and bringing in some one that RG3 feels comfortable with. They are going to coddle him and screw this whole thing up.

 

[Lonewate44]

I hope you are right. But what i expect is, we bring in a new coach. They try to make him a pocket passer, and if it fails we see the blaim game and excuses made again. I dont have faith because he has never BEEN a pocket passer. And his comments this past season tell me that RG3 truely believes that none of this was his fault. And we are simply going to enable that line of thinking by firing the whole coaching staff and bringing in some one that RG3 feels comfortable with. They are going to coddle him and screw this whole thing up.

Will will agree to disagree.....


However....I do believe some of his comments, may have sounded like he was throwing the Oline under the bus when he wasnt.....I believe alot of things were blown way out of proportion by the media...Lets be honest....it is easier to fill air time, and blog time when you can twist, and manuever things into a negative light.....It is the easy for them to do their jobs...

No they are going to FIRE the WHOLE FUCKING STAFF because they SUCK!!!!! and they are gonna tell the team...Everyone one of you players deserves better coaching, and Damnit.....your gonna get it, and ownership is willing to eat 15 Million fucking dollars because the last staff sucked, and because of that, you sucked... You players desered better, coaching, the fans deserved better, ownership deserved better, now we are tryign to give you a new staff that will........Work with the players to make them better...Call better games.....and MAKE HALF TIME ADJUSTMENTS!!!!

 

[Sharkinva]

OK Wate, I will ask you this then.

Say Snyder does the incredible and hires a GM. That GM then hires a coaching staff. If the new coach comes in and says, the entire team is open comp for jobs. And that coach then decides some one other than RG3 should start... will you support the move??

 

[Lonewate44]

OK Wate, I will ask you this then.

Say Snyder does the incredible and hires a GM. That GM then hires a coaching staff. If the new coach comes in and says, the entire team is open comp for jobs. And that coach then decides some one other than RG3 should start... will you support the move??

I would......If Someone Beats RGIII then he beats him....However, I do believe Kirk will be gone, and dont think his replacement would beat RGIII out...and in all honesty.....with an entire offseason to work......I believe in an open competition...RGIII would beat Kick anyway

 

[Sharkinva]

I would......If Someone Beats RGIII then he beats him....However, I do believe Kirk will be gone, and dont think his replacement would beat RGIII out...and in all honesty.....with an entire offseason to work......I believe in an open competition...RGIII would beat Kick anyway

So do you think there should be an open competition for the spot?? And if you based it on athletic ability, I agree Griffin would beat Cousins out. But if it was based on ability as a QB and everything that entails, I think Cousins might shock you because while Griffin is trying to learn how to read defenses, Cousins would be learning the new playbook instead.

Not that I think there is a chance in hell of an open competition for the QB spot. Hell Griffin was named the starter before he had even gone to rookie camp after all.

But my question wasnt would you support the player. It was would you support the move of making it a true open competition for the spot and my the best QB win.

 

[Lonewate44]

So do you think there should be an open competition for the spot?? And if you based it on athletic ability, I agree Griffin would beat Cousins out. But if it was based on ability as a QB and everything that entails, I think Cousins might shock you because while Griffin is trying to learn how to read defenses, Cousins would be learning the new playbook instead.

Not that I think there is a chance in hell of an open competition for the QB spot. Hell Griffin was named the starter before he had even gone to rookie camp after all.

But my question wasnt would you support the player. It was would you support the move of making it a true open competition for the spot and my the best QB win.

Yes I would...I support a compettiton for every sopt, and like I said.....Kirk wont be around as I believe he will be traded for the best we can get by the new staff for a couple reasons......#1...glaring holes and we need good young bodies to man them and the higher the picks (should be better ) no guarntee.....#2we dont need 2 starting caliber qbs on the roster.....that is a luxary, this team just cant afford.....and...I know you wont like this...but we dont need a heated QB competition....we dont need our starter looking over his shoulder.....we need him to know that if he messes up, he wont get the hook.

 

[j_y19]

shark, i think you confuse what lonewate and i believe is going to happen vs what we, in and ideal situation, would support. OF course we would support open competition at all positions. But rarely does an ideal situation exists. Politics always has a play. What I, and I believe lonewate, are saying is that Cousins will not be here. Dan will see to that. That's not a vote of support or against, its just what is going to happen. Now we also believe that RG3 would beat out Cousins in an open competition as he just has more skill and upside. We all get that you disagree. Dan has invested way too much in RG3 and RG3 has shown way too much skill (mainly last year) to give up on after one year of regression when he had no offseason and clearly wasn't 100% back from his injury. Does he need to develop skills he has never used before? Absolutely. But what makes anyone think he can't? Where has he ever not succeeded when he applied himself to a challenge?

 

[SonnyCID]

There should always be open competition for every spot.

Hell, Aaron Rodgers should always feel forced to compete for his starting job. Nobody is going to beat him out for it, but that doesn't mean that there should not be a competition.

If someone comes in and outperforms RG3 (however unlikely that may be) he should start over him.

 

[j_y19]

There should always be open competition for every spot.

Hell, Aaron Rodgers should always feel forced to compete for his starting job. Nobody is going to beat him out for it, but that doesn't mean that there should not be a competition.

If someone comes in and outperforms RG3 (however unlikely that may be) he should start over him.

And who is Wilson's competition? Jackson? I don't think so.

 

[geneh_33]

We tried everything to give you guys the game but you wouldn't take it. Now we'll have to draft at best 3rd and I'm pissed.

 

[Sharkinva]

And who is Wilson's competition? Jackson? I don't think so.

Wilson did actually have to beat some one out for the job initially. Griffin was handed the job two days after the draft. Slight difference there. I get it that with what Dan invested in him, it was basically his job to lose. But I think there should have at the least been a shot that Kirk or hell even Rex would have the opportunity. IM heavily against handing a guy a starting position based on his cost in the draft or free agency. More often than not it sets a bad tone for the rest of the team, builds a sense of entitlement in the locker room and fosters resentment on a team. Basically its like the head coach naming his son the starting QB. Griffin has never had to compete for his spot since pee wee ball likely. There is a very thin line between confidence and arrogance. And this year he just came off as arrogant a little too much.

 

[j_y19]

Wilson did actually have to beat some one out for the job initially. Griffin was handed the job two days after the draft. Slight difference there. I get it that with what Dan invested in him, it was basically his job to lose. But I think there should have at the least been a shot that Kirk or hell even Rex would have the opportunity. IM heavily against handing a guy a starting position based on his cost in the draft or free agency. More often than not it sets a bad tone for the rest of the team, builds a sense of entitlement in the locker room and fosters resentment on a team. Basically its like the head coach naming his son the starting QB. Griffin has never had to compete for his spot since pee wee ball likely. There is a very thin line between confidence and arrogance. And this year he just came off as arrogant a little too much.

I can't argue with any point you made here. Competition always brings out the best. Especially when you have a player that may feel "entitled".

 

[SoCalWizFan]

The whole tone here appears to be that RG3 is only starting & will continue to be the starter because of where he was drafted & also makes it appear as if he obtained everything via entitlement.

Did everyone somehow magically forget what he did last season? I fully agree that he has had a very bad season & has some issues that need to be resolved. However - that does not erase everything that happened prior to that especially when you consider that many QBs have had sophmore slumps. Also - Cousins playing well at times shows potential, but it is no guarantee that he will not have issues as he plays more often (& the fickle fan base might also turn on him at that time).

I am not making a point for either QB. However - this debate seems ridiculously one sided by some. It makes it appear that RG3 is just some bum who was lucky to be drafted early & has very little potential. It also discounts the tremendous amt of work that was required on his pt to get to his current position. Do you really think he just showed up one day & was handed the high school QB job & did it all with no work on his part? Cmon.

I totally agree that he needs to do a lot more work to be consistently effective. However - writing him off now based on reports from some loudmouths at ESPN or NFL-N just seems kind of ridiculous to me. Again - some of this comes off as being very Snyder-esque in that some folks want to make decisions that will have a major impact on this organization based on things that have occurred in one or two week time frame. Oh well - doesn't matter since none of us have any input in regards to this decision. Thank God!

 

[Sharkinva]

Socal... as usual I wont speak for any one else. But my take is you dont write him off. But you also dont just go well because he had a good rookie season, we gave up the farm to get him, his job is unquestioned. He did very well in a particular offense. But if we are truely starting over, which seems to be the general consensus, then shouldnt a new coach have the bandwidth to actually make it an open competition for every spot on the team. If griffin is as good as he (and many others) thinks he is, it should be a no brainer that he will win out any way. But on the off chance that he is still struggling with mechanics, reading defenses, holding onto the ball too long, and sailing passes, Im not one to think well he just needs to play through it while we suffer yet another dismal season. Position should be earned, not handed is all Im saying.

 

[j_y19]

Shark, in theory, this sounds great. But this happens all the time to QBs taken early. How about Luck? He isn't tearing it up, but there is NO call to bring in someone else or that competition is the root of his problems. The truth of the matter is when you spend a shitload on a player, at any position, they get some latitude to work thru issues. Young QBs get more than any. You need to give every chance for your investment to pan out before you dump it. Especially young QBs. Giving a young QB a 3rd year to prove they belong, especially since the 2nd year was tainted, is not unreasonable or unheard of.

Let's face it. You are down on RG3 for a variety of reasons, some I agree with, and have lost any faith you might have had. You discount any positives that they guy possesses and focus just on the negatives. I'd be curious to see you do a plus/minus on the guy, listing out what you see are his positives and what are his negatives.

 

[Sharkinva]

Shark, in theory, this sounds great. But this happens all the time to QBs taken early. How about Luck? He isn't tearing it up, but there is NO call to bring in someone else or that competition is the root of his problems. The truth of the matter is when you spend a shitload on a player, at any position, they get some latitude to work thru issues. Young QBs get more than any. You need to give every chance for your investment to pan out before you dump it. Especially young QBs. Giving a young QB a 3rd year to prove they belong, especially since the 2nd year was tainted, is not unreasonable or unheard of.

Let's face it. You are down on RG3 for a variety of reasons, some I agree with, and have lost any faith you might have had. You discount any positives that they guy possesses and focus just on the negatives. I'd be curious to see you do a plus/minus on the guy, listing out what you see are his positives and what are his negatives.

You asked, so here goes.

Positives... He is young. Apparently a hard worker, athletic and dynamic when healthy. Has the ability to be a game changer if put in the right situations.

Negatives... Spoiled, arrogant. Currently does not know how to read defenses. Currently struggles going through progressions and often locks onto his primary target pre snap. Currently has very poor throwing mechanics leading to missed throws and INTs.

 

[j_y19]

You asked, so here goes.

Positives... He is young. Apparently a hard worker, athletic and dynamic when healthy. Has the ability to be a game changer if put in the right situations.

Negatives... Spoiled, arrogant. Currently does not know how to read defenses. Currently struggles going through progressions and often locks onto his primary target pre snap. Currently has very poor throwing mechanics leading to missed throws and INTs.

So I notice that you don't mention his intelligence. Or his history of being a leader. Do you see those traits as a positive, negative or neutral?

As to his negatives, are they typical for a 2nd year QB? Are they treatable? Did his mis throws/INTs begin this year and could they be attributable to his recovery/lack of preseason?

 

[Sharkinva]

So I notice that you don't mention his intelligence. Or his history of being a leader. Do you see those traits as a positive, negative or neutral?

As to his negatives, are they typical for a 2nd year QB? Are they treatable? Did his mis throws/INTs begin this year and could they be attributable to his recovery/lack of preseason?

Intellegence to me is a neutral. Because Im sure Dan Snyder is a very smart man, but it does not mean he is particularly suited for doing his job. As far as being a leader, he hasnt proven that yet. He talks a good game, but I have known plenty of people who were supposed leaders that people were not too keen on following. Our current president comes to mind.

As far as his negatives, yes all are correctable. How ever I dont think we are going about it the right way to correct his two biggest flaws in my opinion. His attitude is what i think will kill us. Some times the talented kid needs to be told no. And it does no good if dad punishes him and mom sneaks him a cookie behind dads back. I honestly dont think he did enough to try and make things work this year, and I think he has actively sought to get the coach fired to a degree.

 

[Lonewate44]

So I notice that you don't mention his intelligence. Or his history of being a leader. Do you see those traits as a positive, negative or neutral?

As to his negatives, are they typical for a 2nd year QB? Are they treatable? Did his mis throws/INTs begin this year and could they be attributable to his recovery/lack of preseason?

Agree with the questions you asked....

and the negatives...good points....

As far as the INT's yep he threw them...on him....but...and not making excuses.....some of those ints were off receivers hands......if a receiver gets his hands on the ball. he is supposed to catch it.....not all were perfect throws for sure, but not all were bad that they tipped to the defender as well.....