RG III: Ware is NFL's "Scariest" Defensive Player

[SonnyCID]

I don't care if your impressed or not. You give me a reporters take which has really no explanation on how he scores anything. Just his interpretation of run defense. I provided video for you to make your own assumption. And it's not just one game somebody else posted him in run defense in the skins game on page one. YouTube has shortage of videos out there. I base my opinions on what I see, you go by what you read. I get it.

I see Ware as a great run defender beause he is. A handful of plays from handpicked games doesnt change that.

Nobody that has watched him through his career would call him a "one trick pony", only people throwing darts in the dark.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

I see Ware as a great run defender beause he is. A handful of plays from handpicked games doesnt change that.

Nobody that has watched him through his career would call him a "one trick pony", only people throwing darts in the dark.

Well you can see him however you want your entitled to that opinion. But simple fact is Ware by his own addmission has only been reaponcible for rushing the passer 90% of the time for his whole career. Which is fine because he is very good at that. But that being his first priority it leaves him exposed in the running more often than your willing to admitt. Again perception isn't always reality in football. As noted in the video/article I posted Ware had three sacks that game. Most would walk away thinking he really showed up and couldn't possible find anything wrong in his game. Yet they and you would be wrong.

 

[SonnyCID]

Well you can see him however you want your entitled to that opinion. But simple fact is Ware by his own addmission has only been reaponcible for rushing the passer 90% of the time for his whole career. Which is fine because he is very good at that. But that being his first priority it leaves him exposed in the running more often than your willing to admitt. Again perception isn't always reality in football. As noted in the video/article I posted Ware had three sacks that game. Most would walk away thinking he really showed up and couldn't possible find anything wrong in his game. Yet they and you would be wrong.

They do use him to aggressively get in the backfield most plays. And he's consistently in the top 5 in TFLs.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

They do use him to aggressively get in the backfield most plays. And he's consistently in the top 5 in TFLs.

Yawwwwwwn. I see critical thought isn't a strong point for you huh? First off tackles aren't a official stat in case you didn't realize. Second in order to record a sack you must get the QB behind the line of scrimmage. In other words a loss! So being top 5 in tackles for a loss translates speaks more about his pass rushing than it does his run defense. Look your really starting to grasp at straws here and that's fine. I'm not trying to change your mind here just stating a fact. And when somebody wants to say Ware and Harrison are basically the same. I'm gonna call him on it because they are not. Yes they play the same position but the Steelers asked Harrison to do way more than Ware has ever been asked.

 

[Ahhhdamnit!]

Yawwwwwwn. I see critical thought isn't a strong point for you huh? First off tackles aren't a official stat in case you didn't realize. Second in order to record a sack you must get the QB behind the line of scrimmage. In other words a loss! So being top 5 in tackles for a loss translates speaks more about his pass rushing than it does his run defense. Look your really starting to grasp at straws here and that's fine. I'm not trying to change your mind here just stating a fact. And when somebody wants to say Ware and Harrison are basically the same. I'm gonna call him on it because they are not. Yes they play the same position but the Steelers asked Harrison to do way more than Ware has ever been asked.

Total bullshit, do you watch the games or just run your mouth like a jagoff.

From Piitsburgh, follow the Steelers, until this season Ware and Harrison were asked to do the exact same thing.

The only difference is that Ware has been more effective.

Harrison's back and knee injury destroyed his leverage on the edge rush so he was constantly stuffed at the line. He had the same job that Lloyd had in the Steelers 3-4, attack up field.

Was there the occasional drop into coverage? Absolutely, in zone blitz packages, and Ware does the same damn thing.

If you are going to argue from the perspective of a Steelers fan at least know what in the fuck you are talking about.

 

[SonnyCID]

Yawwwwwwn. I see critical thought isn't a strong point for you huh? First off tackles aren't a official stat in case you didn't realize. Second in order to record a sack you must get the QB behind the line of scrimmage. In other words a loss! So being top 5 in tackles for a loss translates speaks more about his pass rushing than it does his run defense. Look your really starting to grasp at straws here and that's fine. I'm not trying to change your mind here just stating a fact. And when somebody wants to say Ware and Harrison are basically the same. I'm gonna call him on it because they are not. Yes they play the same position but the Steelers asked Harrison to do way more than Ware has ever been asked.

Ware doesn't call the plays.

And Harrison's responsibilities have as much to do with him as they do with the players around him. If Ware was on the Steelers, would they have him after the QB every play or would they stay true to form and bring pressure from all over? In Dallas, Ware is the alpha and omega of their pass rush, thus the difference in responsibilities.

I never said that they were the same player, I think Ware is better.

I just said that he's one of the best OLBs against the run in the league, and it's true. There are other factors that go in to his team's defense struggling against the run, whether it be play calling or the quality of teammates that dont reflect on him. Watch a game, when it comes time to shed a block or make a tackle in space, he gets it done more times than not. And that's how you should judge how good of player one is.

 

[Ahhhdamnit!]

I see Ware as a great run defender beause he is. A handful of plays from handpicked games doesnt change that.

Nobody that has watched him through his career would call him a "one trick pony", only people throwing darts in the dark.

Hate to do this but you are wrong here, Ware is not a great run defender and it has nothing to do with numbers, he suffers from the same thing that Harrison does, he gets froze in space due to being overly aggressive.

Go back and watch the last game against the Redskins and you will see him getting caught off balance in the read option time and again.

They both need to be on the move down hill to be effective but again, Ware has been better at it than Harrison over the course of their careers.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

Hate to do this but you are wrong here, Ware is not a great run defender and it has nothing to do with numbers, he suffers from the same thing that Harrison does, he gets froze in space due to being overly aggressive.

Go back and watch the last game against the Redskins and you will see him getting caught off balance in the read option time and again.

They both need to be on the move down hill to be effective but again, Ware has been better at it than Harrison over the course of their careers.

Well being 50% right is better than just being wrong. While yes tackles are not a official stat they do get you in the ball park if you will. Ware is not good against the rush and he is not better than Harrison against the run. Harrison has well over 125 more tackles the Ware in 30+ fewer starts. Harrison also has 5 times the INTS that Ware has. Ware only trumps Harrison in sacks. So to try and compare the two is simply wrong. Harrison has a complete game Ware is a pass rusher. Big difference.

 

[Ahhhdamnit!]

Well being 50% right is better than just being wrong. While yes tackles are not a official stat they do get you in the ball park if you will. Ware is not good against the rush and he is not better than Harrison against the run. Harrison has well over 125 more tackles the Ware in 30+ fewer starts. Harrison also has 5 times the INTS that Ware has. Ware only trumps Harrison in sacks. So to try and compare the two is simply wrong. Harrison has a complete game Ware is a pass rusher. Big difference.

Well than which is it, tackles do count or they don't, you can't have it both ways.

Harrison's numbers in INTs and tackles over Ware are accomplished because of 2 things.

1. He has played with better players.
2. He has played in a better scheme because he has had better coaching.

It is not wrong to compare the two, it is wrong to say that Harrison is the superior player. Numbers only get you so far and then you have to not only watch the game but understand what you are watching.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

I never said that they were the same player, I think Ware is better.

Got it. Harrison has more tackles,more assists, more turnover forced, all done in fewer starts. But you "think" Ware is better? And for the record I'm not saying he isn't or is better. Frankly I think it a wash. It's not a wash though when talking about who in scarier, Harrison hands down.

 

[Ahhhdamnit!]

Got it. Harrison has more tackles,more assists, more turnover forced, all done in fewer starts. But you "think" Ware is better? And for the record I'm not saying he isn't or is better. Frankly I think it a wash. It's not a wash though when talking about who in scarier, Harrison hands down.

Are we talking in the past or currently because right now there is no discussion, Ware is the scarier player because he is the far superior player to Harrison.

When Harrison was in D.P.O.Y. form he was the most feared player in the league, but he is no longer that player.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

Well than which is it, tackles do count or they don't, you can't have it both ways.

Harrison's numbers in INTs and tackles over Ware are accomplished because of 2 things.

1. He has played with better players.
2. He has played in a better scheme because he has had better coaching.

It is not wrong to compare the two, it is wrong to say that Harrison is the superior player. Numbers only get you so far and then you have to not only watch the game but understand what you are watching.

Not trying to have it both ways, I clearly sad that tackles are a official stat. And to excuse Harrison's contributions because he's out there with better defenders is a bit lame. If Ware is the only beast on his defense shouldn't he make more plays? I mean shouldn't he get more tackles? And I'm not saying Harrison is superior to Ware or vise versa. I will say Harrison is more on a intimidator than Ware because frankly he is. Harrison is also better in run defense be it running at him or away from him.

 

[#1BostonFan]

It's either him or Watt. Will be between them and Clowney soon.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

Are we talking in the past or currently because right now there is no discussion, Ware is the scarier player because he is the far superior player to Harrison.

When Harrison was in D.P.O.Y. form he was the most feared player in the league, but he is no longer that player.

I'm talking career wise. Right now we really have no idea how either player will be. That said, Harrison did show his old ability towards the end of last season. Ware is moving to a new position where he is now being asked to deal with tackles more, traps,etc. He also will have more in the running game to worry about.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

I think everybody is getting a little off topic here. The topic is scary. Guys like Suh, Suggs, Harrison, etc, are just plain mean and nasty. Ware while yes he is great at what he is asked to do same with Watt. They are generally nice guys who are just great players. I would much rather get hit by them than the other three mentioned.

 

[Ahhhdamnit!]

Not trying to have it both ways, I clearly sad that tackles are a official stat. And to excuse Harrison's contributions because he's out there with better defenders is a bit lame. If Ware is the only beast on his defense shouldn't he make more plays? I mean shouldn't he get more tackles? And I'm not saying Harrison is superior to Ware or vise versa. I will say Harrison is more on a intimidator than Ware because frankly he is. Harrison is also better in run defense be it running at him or away from him.

Then I'm calling you a liar right now because in a previous post, this thread, last page you said that tackles are not an official stat but they get you in the ballpark.

If you are going to talk football with people that know the game at least have the decency not to bald-face lie and try to sell your bullshit.

No, Ware should not get more tackles because teams are less inclined to go after your best player. If your team is better all around then offenses are forced to run to both sides. Its fundamental football, you go after a defenses weak point and teams were more inclined to run to Harrison's side than they were Woodley's and considering the DEs that each of them have had in front that says a lot about what teams thought of James ability to 'snuff-out' the run.

And you cannot be more intimidating if you can no longer make plays. Its pretty basic that you have to be able to affect the game for people to give a shit about where you are on the field and what it is you are doing.

You're trying to equate the fear of getting hit to the fear of what kind of damage a player can do to the game itself, they are not the same thing.

 

[Ahhhdamnit!]

I'm talking career wise. Right now we really have no idea how either player will be. That said, Harrison did show his old ability towards the end of last season. Ware is moving to a new position where he is now being asked to deal with tackles more, traps,etc. He also will have more in the running game to worry about.

I think everybody is getting a little off topic here. The topic is scary. Guys like Suh, Suggs, Harrison, etc, are just plain mean and nasty. Ware while yes he is great at what he is asked to do same with Watt. They are generally nice guys who are just great players. I would much rather get hit by them than the other three mentioned.

Career wise was not the topic, the current is so before you start telling others they are off topic you need to get your own shit straight.

Go and check Ware's highlight reel, he smacks people around, he's not a pillow fighter.

If you have a problem with Cowboys' players just say you don't like the Cowboys.

 

[SonnyCID]

Hate to do this but you are wrong here, Ware is not a great run defender and it has nothing to do with numbers, he suffers from the same thing that Harrison does, he gets froze in space due to being overly aggressive.

Go back and watch the last game against the Redskins and you will see him getting caught off balance in the read option time and again.

They both need to be on the move down hill to be effective but again, Ware has been better at it than Harrison over the course of their careers.

Every pass rusher got put on their heels last year against RG3, I saw the same thing happen with Wilson last year, every week they were making the best pass rushers in the league look silly.

When teams run at him, he's always seemed to me to be a great tackler in the open field and I've seen him make a lot of plays where he's locked up on a blocker and just reaches out makes a play with his long arms. The way he is used makes him a liability at times, as is the deal with most pass rushers, but I think individual fundamentals against the run are as good as any 3-4 pass-rusher.

 

[Ahhhdamnit!]

Every pass rusher got put on their heels last year against RG3, I saw the same thing happen with Wilson last year, every week they were making the best pass rushers in the league look silly.

When teams run at him, he's always seemed to me to be a great tackler in the open field and I've seen him make a lot of plays where he's locked up on a blocker and just reaches out makes a play with his long arms. The way he is used makes him a liability at times, as is the deal with most pass rushers, but I think individual fundamentals against the run are as good as any 3-4 pass-rusher.

If you want to quantify it by saying the bold part I can see that point of view, because you've trimmed it down to a select segment of LBs that all suffer from a similar problem being that they attack downhill on most downs and can get caught in bad position because of it.

Ware is in the upper-half of that group because of his freakish athleticism, but when compared to all 3-4 OLBs he's not what is considered a quality run stuffer.

Now, he might actually be more effective against the run as a DE because of something else that you mentioned, his ability to be engaged and still either reach or shed to get to the ball carrier.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

LMAO, you lied when you said that tackle stats are useless only to use them in an argument.

I told you that you can't have it both ways and then you changed your story, LOL!

Read you own posts dipshit, its all in there!

And there is nothing for me to handle in your answer because you can't handle your own bullshit!

I pointed out your bullshit and you flipped out like someone called you a bad name on the playground ya fucking 4 year old

Isn't there a tennis or badminton thread here? Maybe you should go check them out...

Sigh. That's not a lie they aren't a official stat that's a fact shit head. I never said they were "useless" that's the lie right there. Before I ever used tackles as a example I restated that they are not a official stat, but we can use it to get us in the ball park. Again really not a lie is it? You want to come on here and call anybody a liar when you clearly have no clue what the word means. Your going to be told to fuck off, as you should be. You fight should be taken up with websters not me. Because I never lied I stated fact. Your just a CBS troll looking to start crap. Looked at your post history you pretty transparent, and clearly not that bright.