Why do fans of fast paced offenses whine when defenses...

[Edisto_Tiger]

This thread is giving me a cramp...

 

[4down20]

I agree that it's great to have ideal match ups, but that's the entire point of the HUNH O: To get those mismatches and exploit them. I'm not telling you anything you don't know though. You definitely have a higher football IQ than others and I have to believe that you just like playing Devil's advocate a little.

I don't have a problem with the hurry up part of things. I just don't like that people simply need to hurry back up to the line, call a play from the sideline rather than the huddle as a means of the offense dictating what the defense is able to do. To me, that's not football and it's an exploit of rules that are designed towards the defense not being able to run the clock down.

The hurry up part is fine, no different than a 2 minute drill.

But when the offense is able to "lock in" the defensive players, balance is lost.

 

[cwerph]

I came to the football board and a soccer discussion broke out.

No, really, I love to see guys rolling on the ground, writhing in "pain" only to hop up, smile and act like nothing happened a minute later.

 

[trojanfan12]

I know but you were about the only other fan posting so I had to include you but I also said you were a Oregon fan in a trojan outfit! Remember? In reality it's been all fans of up tempo offenses or fans of west coast pulling what they accuse the SEC of doing, defending their brethren.

Except we're defending a specific style of football, we're not defending Oregon!! Team SEC (which is different from fans of SEC teams) defends teams that are part of the SEC and think that an SEC team winning the NC, somehow makes their team better!!

Oregon keeps getting talked about because they are the best at running that style!! So, I'm not defending Oregon, I'm defending the style!! It wouldn't matter to me what team was being used as the example!!

 

[trojanfan12]

Can any of you fans from up tempo offenses understand? It is about the game and how it is played! Officials should not have to speed up their game just because they have up tempo teams on the field. They should have a swift routine of getting the ball in play and teams abide by that. It gives everyone equality that way like I mentioned the NFL does it. Is has nothing to do with conditioning. Refs should not officiate one week one way (with pro style time control offenses) and up temp offenses the next. However, you see the officials changing their game totally and running to get the ball in play when up tempo teams are on the field. That is why there are discussions when a big game has both styles on opposite sides. It almost becomes where the officials are from. If they had one standard that was fast but allowed defenses to substitute, but they needed to be ready to substitute, this would not be an issue and it would be more equitable.

As for Alabama needing more versatile conditioned athletes, they seem to be doing just fine the way they are. 3 out 5 is it? Now this is where some idiot says than why are you complaining?

There is more than one way to play the game!! Just because you don't like a particular style of play, doesn't mean that rules should be changed or that teams shouldn't be allowed to run it!!

Also, who is suggesting that the refs should be speeding up the game!! Part of the refs job is to get the ball ready to play!! But to that end, I'll bet that if 'Bama was trailing in a game and running their 2 minute offense, you wouldn't be complaining about the refs hurrying to get the ball set for the next play!!

And the bolded part is what is so perplexing about you whining about up-tempo offenses!! You're team has won 3 of the last 4 NC's and your here crying about a style of football that your team doesn't seem to have too much trouble beating!!

 

[trojanfan12]

It has almost nothing to do with conditioning. If you think Alabama isn't conditioned, then you are nuts. It's about being able to substitute for the situation at best. I'm so sick of hearing about conditioning as if that is the problem. Alabama vs A&M got scored on early, not late when conditioning becomes an issue.

And yeah, it's not 2008. Alabama is WAY better now if you haven't noticed.

Since the complaint that you coach and his "wannabe" had was that it makes the defense tired and can lead to injuries, I'd say that conditioning has a lot to do with it!!

 

[4down20]

Since the complaint that you coach and his "wannabe" had was that it makes the defense tired and can lead to injuries, I'd say that conditioning has a lot to do with it!!

Yes, Alabama just isn't conditioned enough.

 

[4down20]

Saban's quotes. Let me know where he says anything about "conditioning" or "being tired".

“I think that the way people are going no-huddle right now, that at some point in time we should look at how fast we allow games to go in terms of player safety,”

“You can’t substitute defensive players,” Saban said. “You go on a 14-, 16-, 18-play drive and they’re snapping the ball as fast as they can and you look out there and all your players are walking around and can’t even get lined up. I mean that’s when guys have a much greater chance of getting hurt when they’re not ready to play. I think that’s something that can be looked at.”

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't have a problem with the hurry up part of things. I just don't like that people simply need to hurry back up to the line, call a play from the sideline rather than the huddle as a means of the offense dictating what the defense is able to do. To me, that's not football and it's an exploit of rules that are designed towards the defense not being able to run the clock down.

The hurry up part is fine, no different than a 2 minute drill.

But when the offense is able to "lock in" the defensive players, balance is lost.

Wait!! What?!? You say you have no problem with the hurry up side of things, but the you say: "I just don't like people simply need to hurry back up to the line of scrimmage, call a play from the sideline rather than huddle as a means of the offense dictating what the defense is able to do"!! That's the very definition of a hurry up offense!!

And when a team is running the 2 minute drill or hurry up offense, it is dictating what the defense can do by speeding up the game!! The only difference is that some teams are choosing to use that offense for the entire game!!

The up-tempo offense is no different that any other offensive innovation from the forward pass, to the wishbone to the west coast offense!! Defenses will learn to adjust to it!! In fact, some already are!!

Stanford has had some success in stifling the up-tempo offense and so has the DC that USC just hired!!

I don't recall LSU having much problem with it either!!

 

[SEC Official]

Except we're defending a specific style of football, we're not defending Oregon!! Team SEC (which is different from fans of SEC teams) defends teams that are part of the SEC and think that an SEC team winning the NC, somehow makes their team better!!

Oregon keeps getting talked about because they are the best at running that style!! So, I'm not defending Oregon, I'm defending the style!! It wouldn't matter to me what team was being used as the example!!

I don't totally agree... the team SEC thing happened as a REACTION to events over the last 6-7 years.

What happened in my opinion was there was too much A=B and B=C therefore A=C going on in the forums with anti-SEC people... which drove the SEC fans to huddle together and defend.

Each year we heard... "well... x team may have wont he NC, but they lost to y team.. and since we beat y team, that proves that the SEC is overrated and the wrong team won the national title"

It happened with my Gators in 2006...when they lost to Auburn and went on to crush OSU. It happened again in 2008 when Florida dropped a home game to Miss... with a comedy of errors game with unforced turnovers everywhere... only for Florida go beat OU in the finals (and Miss to end up waxing the best the BigXII had to offer).

All I heard was ... "... we we beat Auburn, therefore we are better than Florida..." so SEC fans find themselves defending other SEC teams in order to defend their own team...

That is how the SEC bandwagon started in my mind... it wasn't like this BEFORE 2005... it started the year the media had already crowned OSU champs... and then everything went downhill from there.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes, Alabama just isn't conditioned enough.

Apparently not according to Saban, since it's what he based his objection on!! I'm sure he's not saying for the good of other teams!!

 

[SEC Official]

Apparently not according to Saban, since it's what he based his objection on!! I'm sure he's not saying for the good of other teams!!

Saban is never happy... he acts like the most miserable SOB in the land all the time.

the only time you see him losen up is for a few minutes AFTER they win it all... then he is right back to talking about preparing for next year and all the work to be done.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't totally agree... the team SEC thing happened as a REACTION to events over the last 6-7 years.

What happened in my opinion was there was too much A=B and B=C therefore A=C going on in the forums with anti-SEC people... which drove the SEC fans to huddle together and defend.

Each year we heard... "well... x team may have wont he NC, but they lost to y team.. and since we beat y team, that proves that the SEC is overrated and the wrong team won the national title"

It happened with my Gators in 2006...when they lost to Auburn and went on to crush OSU. It happened again in 2008 when Florida dropped a home game to Miss... with a comedy of errors game with unforced turnovers everywhere... only for Florida go beat OU in the finals (and Miss to end up waxing the best the BigXII had to offer).

All I heard was ... "... we we beat Auburn, therefore we are better than Florida..." so SEC fans find themselves defending other SEC teams in order to defend their own team...

That is how the SEC bandwagon started in my mind... it wasn't like this BEFORE 2005... it started the year the media had already crowned OSU champs... and then everything went downhill from there.

Uh, okay!! Kind of not the point of my post!! Point of my post was that I'm defending Oregon's style of play, not Oregon!!

As for how Team SEC came about, it's kind of a chicken or egg thing at this point!! SEC fans say that non-SEC fans started it and non-SEC fans say that SEC fans started!! Either way, it's !! I wasn't on any message boards when it started, so I really have no idea how it came about and really don't care!! As you know from cbs, I'm just as likely to defend the SEC as criticize!!

 

[trojanfan12]

Saban is never happy... he acts like the most miserable SOB in the land all the time.

the only time you see him losen up is for a few minutes AFTER they win it all... then he is right back to talking about preparing for next year and all the work to be done.

It's what makes him such a great coach!! I'd like to lock Lane Kiffin in a room for a month and make him watch tape of Nick Saban on an endless loop so he can see how a great football coach does things!!

 

[BamaTee1]

There is more than one way to play the game!! Just because you don't like a particular style of play, doesn't mean that rules should be changed or that teams shouldn't be allowed to run it!!

Also, who is suggesting that the refs should be speeding up the game!! Part of the refs job is to get the ball ready to play!! But to that end, I'll bet that if 'Bama was trailing in a game and running their 2 minute offense, you wouldn't be complaining about the refs hurrying to get the ball set for the next play!!

And the bolded part is what is so perplexing about you whining about up-tempo offenses!! You're team has won 3 of the last 4 NC's and your here crying about a style of football that your team doesn't seem to have too much trouble beating!!

That is the exception, with 2 minutes or a reason to be hurrying to catch up, but just to be running it so a team can not substitute is wrong!

This is not rocket science. We are not talking about changing much. Run the exact same plays. Run them fast! Just give the defense enough time to play defense!!! Even if they have to hustle out on the field. I know, if I were a coach I would want different personnel on the field with 3rd and 2 than 3rd and 12. Yes, you can call a timeout and get your situational defense on the field but then they're stuck out there. They don't have to hold the clock but they also don't have to run like crazy tossing the ball to get it in play asap either! As for your question of who is asking the refs to be speeding up the game? Every fan and coach of these offenses! I've seen them get pissed cause they were hurrying but not fast enough for the coach!

And for the record, I don't care if Alabama beat 20 hunh teams in a row I still think they are working too hard to assist the offenses. I love defensive minded teams and Bama winning NC's or not has nothing to do with it. Your below comment doesn't have damn thing to do with any of this!

And the bolded part is what is so perplexing about you whining about up-tempo offenses!! You're team has won 3 of the last 4 NC's and your here crying about a style of football that your team doesn't seem to have too much trouble beating!!

 

[BamaTee1]

Saban is never happy... he acts like the most miserable SOB in the land all the time.

the only time you see him losen up is for a few minutes AFTER they win it all... then he is right back to talking about preparing for next year and all the work to be done.

Some of that is right but you see so very little of him. I live here and have a relationship with the athletic dept and you don't see how he is or who he is 90% of the time. The entire country think they know him but they are clueless and that's fine! Type A personalities are focused people and not emotional outwardly but to say that about Saban is saying all type A's can't enjoy anything. Wrong! Just looks that way.

 

[trojanfan12]

There is more than one way to play the game!! Just because you don't like a particular style of play, doesn't mean that rules should be changed or that teams shouldn't be allowed to run it!!

Also, who is suggesting that the refs should be speeding up the game!! Part of the refs job is to get the ball ready to play!! But to that end, I'll bet that if 'Bama was trailing in a game and running their 2 minute offense, you wouldn't be complaining about the refs hurrying to get the ball set for the next play!!

And the bolded part is what is so perplexing about you whining about up-tempo offenses!! You're team has won 3 of the last 4 NC's and your here crying about a style of football that your team doesn't seem to have too much trouble beating!!

Forgot to bold out "the bolded out part"!!

 

[BamaTee1]

Since the complaint that you coach and his "wannabe" had was that it makes the defense tired and can lead to injuries, I'd say that conditioning has a lot to do with it!!

This is exactly what he has said. Picture this in his calm monotone voice.

"I don't know if it leads to more injuries or not. We do run many more plays this way. There can be as many as 160 or more total plays where there use to be about 120. I just think it might be a good idea to do a study."

He also says what 4down said. " He doesn't know but the question is , Is this the direction people want the game to go? Saban goes onto say all he knows is it's taken the coaching out of the game and that's the part he enjoys the most"

Wow, how dare he say these things!!! <<< pointing out sarcasm for many of y'all!

Not really seeing my fat lazy lineman can't keep up as proposed by many.

 

[BamaTee1]

Let's face it, we are all homers and will defend our teams and anything associated with our team or we wouldn't spend time on a sports message board talking about it. If we were run-of-the-mill fans, we'd be watching housewives of atlanta or something instead of talking football here on the hoop. So with that said, you have to expect the bickering and arguing, which I have no problem with, I just don't like the petty name calling. I do it too from time to time but I try not. The offseason is always filled with this though and as soon as the season starts it will settle into some real talk about real facts and stats, for the most part. God, I love me some college football.

Housewifes of Atlanta is on? Got to go!!!! Be back later...

 

[trojanfan12]

That is the exception, with 2 minutes or a reason to be hurrying to catch up, but just to be running it so a team can not substitute is wrong!

This is not rocket science. We are not talking about changing much. Run the exact same plays. Run them fast! Just give the defense enough time to play defense!!! Even if they have to hustle out on the field. I know, if I were a coach I would want different personnel on the field with 3rd and 2 than 3rd and 12. Yes, you can call a timeout and get your situational defense on the field but then they're stuck out there. They don't have to hold the clock but they also don't have to run like crazy tossing the ball to get it in play asap either! As for your question of who is asking the refs to be speeding up the game? Every fan and coach of these offenses! I've seen them get pissed cause they were hurrying but not fast enough for the coach!

And for the record, I don't care if Alabama beat 20 hunh teams in a row I still think they are working too hard to assist the offenses. I love defensive minded teams and Bama winning NC's or not has nothing to do with it. Your below comment doesn't have damn thing to do with any of this!

Why is it wrong? The point of the game is to find a way to gain an advantage on your opponents. One way to do that is to create a situation where a team can't matchup with yours!! Isn't that why 'Bama tries to get all of the best players and coaches? To create mismatches that their opponents can't match?

Also, up-tempo offenses are actually playing a style that is a faster paced version of exactly the way the game used to be played!!

What's with all of this "specialization" these days? When I played, you played the whole game and often times you played both ways and on special teams!!

In my opinion, all of this "specialization" and having to make multiple substitutions for every situation isn't the way the game should be played!!

Whatever happened to good old fashioned "my best 11 against your best 11" Iron Man football?