2013-14 - Around the League Thread

[MHSL82]

Sad day for Nuraman, but I could see him accepting it or even agreeing with it: Jason Kidd of New York Knicks retiring after 19 NBA seasons

Kidd's defense stopped being good in New Jersey. I don't know what day that was.

Stockton was still a good defender on his last day.

With your thoughts on Hornacek and your admiration of Kidd, I was wondering, what would you think if this happened? Jason Kidd pursuing Brooklyn Nets' head coaching job

 

[nuraman00]

Former PGs have an easier transition to a first-time head coach, because they were responsible for the initial offense, and first line of defense. They had more responsibility, and had to lead at both ends, so I think they understand the game enough to be a first-time head coach.

Mark Jackson said the same thing for years, prior to getting hired. That he didn't need to be an assistant coach first, and that was why he had turned down assistant coaching jobs for years.


Something Chuck Person said though, reminds me of Hornacek. Person was hired several years ago as a defensive assistant coach. I had wondered why he was a defensive coach, as opposed to a shooting coach. His response was that he had to know something about defenses, if he could score on them.

I wonder if Hornacek, being a similarly good scorer, has the same kind of understanding of schemes.

(Note: Chuck Person has been fired from two different organizations as a defensive coach. Maybe he just wasn't good regardless of his quote.)

With your thoughts on Hornacek

My thoughts were about Phoenix's management's decision to hire Horacek, as well as considering the other candidates they interviewed. Right now, Phoenix and Charlotte are the front offices I trust the least to make good decisions.

Had an organization that Hornacek hadn't played for, such as Detroit or Toronto or Milwaukee or Clippers or Memphis or Philly hired him, I would have trusted their management more. Yes, even for a contending team like Memphis or Clippers. I know those latter two organizations are trying to win now, and if they hired Hornacek (with at least a 3 year deal), then it speaks more to their belief in him, given what's at stake for them. And overall I trust those other front offices a little more than the aforementioned Phoenix and Charlotte.

With Phoenix, I wonder if they made the hire more for PR / emotional ties. And also, they didn't interview one experienced NBA coach, which worries me. Did others not want to work for them? Did Phoenix not want to be as ambitious for a rebuilding team? Are they just trying to be profitable, until they have a better team?

I think first-time head coaches can be decent. Spoelstra, for example, has changed the way his team plays a little bit each of the past 4 years. But his first job has been good, and that includes bouncing back from Riley's 15 win season to make the playoffs in he debut as a coach the next year.

I also liked Maurice Cheeks in Portland. (Coincidentally another former PG). Portland might not have been contending, but they were a playoffs team, and Cheeks kept that going for a few years. And I also liked how Cheeks was hired by an organization he didn't play for. Just like Lionel Hollins was hired by Memphis, an organization he never played for.

Larry Brown was also a PG during his playing days.

Hmm, I thought of another bad comparison for the Suns hiring Hornacek: The Kings hiring former Kings player Reggie Theus. Theus hasn't been a NBA head coach since the Kings fired him. (He didn't have much to work with, especially after the Kings traded away Artest, but the point is that no other organization saw much in him either afterward either. Shades of Corbin?) Since then, he was an assistant in Minnesota, then a head coach for the D-League Defenders this past year. Then a few months ago, he took a job for CSU Northridge. During the Kings introductory press conference for Theus, they of course kept mentioning how Theus scored the first points for Sacramento in 1985. I wonder if Horancek's press conference was similar, in that a large portion was focused on his past, rather than the present.

I watch a lot of these types of long press conferences. For example, when Mobley, Kelvin Cato, and Steve Francis were traded to Orlando, I watched the 20 minute video of their press conference. I like things like that. Not so much that I learn something, but I just like these funny little moments that happen. (Example: During Theus head coaching press conference, either a reporter or another Kings staff member said that even though Theus had scored Sacramento's first points, it had taken him 7 shots to do so, haha. I don't know if that's true, but it's funny and memorable.)

I'm going to look for Hornacek's press conference. Again, I don't expect much from these things, but I do find watching them entertaining.

Ok, I can't watch these right now, but they look like they're what I'm looking for. I'll watch and post my "game thread" style reactions at some point.

 

[nuraman00]

If Prokhorov hires Kidd, that's a - for me. Prokhorov sucks.

 

[nuraman00]

Kidd's defense stopped being good in New Jersey. I don't know what day that was.

What I meant by this was that he wasn't a full-time, two way play for me anymore back in New Jersey, so I stopped paying attention to him.

His Dallas stint was ok, but he wasn't worth the primary or secondary attention anymore.

So I stopped caring back in his NJ days.

 

[nuraman00]

If Prokhorov hires Kidd, that's a - for me. Prokhorov sucks.

I wonder if Kings hiring Theus, Phoenix hiring Hornacek, and Prokhorov hiring Kidd were were all somewhat PR / selling hope to fans type moves. All were head coaching hires by organizations they used to play for. (Kidd hiring TBD)

And both Prokhorov, and the former Kings owners, were bad. I'm not as down on the Suns Robert Sarver as many others are. I think it's more about their GM, or unstable GM position the last few years. Of course, someone can say that the GM comes from the owner.

Especially since these guys weren't experienced assistants or ones that had a good reputation.

 

[MHSL82]

If Prokhorov hires Kidd, that's a - for me. Prokhorov sucks.

Well, then, Prokhorov sucks. Jason Kidd hired as new coach of Brooklyn Nets

I want Kidd to do well, as a coach, because I didn't want him getting closer to that assist leader number. He would never pass it, but every 1,000 he passes, the less the assist plateau that Stockton has looks. That's one reason why I was bugged that Mark Jackson passed 10,000.

But I also don't like Moron Williams, I mean Deron, so 41-41 is the hope? No, I don't think he's a moron, just his name sounded a bit like that when I first typed his name.

 

[MHSL82]

Heard on the radio that the Boston-Clippers trade was stopped by Stern because coaches couldn't be traded and I thought, "no freakin' duh." Though I have to admit, I don't know the actual rules. My second feeling was, "how could they get this far and not know or not have the Commissioner tell them this awhile ago?" I also heard that deals cannot be contingent upon each other - as in we will only trade X for Y if Z is traded for A. It has to be X for Y and/or Z for A. Weird rule.

 

[MHSL82]

Heard on the radio that the Boston-Clippers trade was stopped by Stern because coaches couldn't be traded and I thought, "no freakin' duh." Though I have to admit, I don't know the actual rules. My second feeling was, "how could they get this far and not know or not have the Commissioner tell them this awhile ago?" I also heard that deals cannot be contingent upon each other - as in we will only trade X for Y if Z is traded for A. It has to be X for Y and/or Z for A. Weird rule.

So apparently coaches can be traded for but the contingency thing stands.

NBA Clips, Celts reach deal for Rivers - ESPN

 

[nuraman00]

I feel bad for him. He's only had one bad season and he's improved both years. But was this a move to keep Chris Paul? Who fills in for him? Was he bad with players?

Vinny Del ***** out as Los Angeles Clippers coach

Vinny Del ***** Career NBA Coaching Record and Bio

Limited tactics.

Zolty (NYC)


This is a serious question: Why are Vinny Del ***** and Doc Rivers viewed so differently? Doc took an Orlando team to a .500 record and won Coach of the Year. Vinny took a Bulls team with low expectations to a .500 record as a first-time coach, and rumors swirled he'd be fired. Doc has great years in Boston and gets a $7 million a year salary. Vinny coaches the best Clippers season ever and gets let go. Why is Doc viewed as a great coach and Vinny as kind of a doofus? Is it just Doc winning the championship?

Kevin Pelton
(6:16 PM)


Fairly or not, Vinny has always been perceived as a dumb coach. Doc is a much better communicator, which helps a lot. In basketball terms, Vinny's teams have succeeded primarily in offense despite vanilla systems. Doc's teams have been more defensive, which is usually more a testament to the coach than to the talent. I would say the gap between them is smaller than conventional wisdom but still significant.

 

[MHSL82]

Wow, eight teams? I didn't know him well, as a player of course. No player I know as a person, as in meeting them for more than an autograph or youth basketball camp. Tell you about that later, if I remember and feel like it. (Quick summary: Hornacek, Blue Edwards, Mark Eaton, no personal stories, just watched them, didn't talk to any of them, nor did I try - I was focused on playing - how little I was. Rhetorical? Nah, I was 8-12 years old.)

Former All-Star Chris Gatling pleads guilty in squatting scam - ESPN

 

[nuraman00]

Wow, eight teams? I didn't know him well, as a player of course. No player I know as a person, as in meeting them for more than an autograph or youth basketball camp. Tell you about that later, if I remember and feel like it. (Quick summary: Hornacek, Blue Edwards, Mark Eaton, no personal stories, just watched them, didn't talk to any of them, nor did I try - I was focused on playing - how little I was. Rhetorical? Nah, I was 8-12 years old.)

Former All-Star Chris Gatling pleads guilty in squatting scam - ESPN

I think BlueMoon_76 once had a good post about Blue Edwards. I'll have to ask him to see what he thinks of him, and maybe he'll make the same good post again.

Clintonite33 ran into Mark Eaton at a Radio Shack in January 2011. He got a pic of Eaton with his kids.

Of course, Clintonite33 referred to as "Lurch" in his email to me.

 

[nuraman00]

From BlueMoon_76:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Blue Edwards? Wow, I havent thought of him in many years. He was named Blue cause ha came out of the womb as a baby with the umbilical cord around his neck and he was choking.

 

[MHSL82]

Adidas, Warriors to Debut First-Ever Modern Short Sleeve NBA Uniforms
Los Angeles Lakers to wear short-sleeve jerseys in several games next season

Thoughts? Anyone play with these types and regular? I know we've all played casual ball with t-shirts, how does it compare, in your opinion, with the regular jerseys? These, of course, will be better than t-shirts, having more ventilation.

 

[MHSL82]

Jason Kidd hired as new coach of Brooklyn Nets.

What do you guys think?

Jason Kidd of Brooklyn Nets denies intentionally dropping cup on sidelines - ESPN New York

Different incident as player:

 

[nuraman00]

What do you guys think?

Jason Kidd of Brooklyn Nets denies intentionally dropping cup on sidelines - ESPN New York

Different incident as player:

I think it was intentional by Kidd, both in the incident as a Mav, and as a coach of the Nets.

But I like it. It gives fans something fun to talk about, and it's just a funny thing to do, in the Nets incident, to manufacture a timeout.

 

[MHSL82]

Grand Entrance - Michael Jordan's House (Picture Gallery)

There are others' there, like Tom Brady's house, but you should go through it yourself if you are interested.

 

[MHSL82]

I think it was intentional by Kidd, both in the incident as a Mav, and as a coach of the Nets.

But I like it. It gives fans something fun to talk about, and it's just a funny thing to do, in the Nets incident, to manufacture a timeout.

How about this?

Let's Watch Mike Tomlin Jump Out Of The Way Of Various Things

 

[nuraman00]

Pumpernikiel (Poland)


Who's the best rookie caoch? Has to be Hornacek, Brett Brown or Budenholzer, right?


Kevin Pelton
(3:25 PM)


I would say Hornacek has been the most impressive so far. The improvement the Suns have made at the defensive end is shocking, and it's happened without stifling their players at the other end.

 

[MHSL82]

Hurry! Everyone vote for everyone but Curry for the All-Star game. Mark Jackson said he would retire if Curry did not make the All-Star team. Get him out!

 

[MHSL82]

How about Andre Miller as backup PG? They've benched him and then suspended him two games because he wants to play. Get him to help us teach some things to Burke and return to Utah (college).