How many Finals MVPs for Bill Russell if the Award was around at the time?

[Wamu]

You can find those numbers easily in the link... but here you go:

1947 BAA Finals - Stags vs. Warriors | Basketball-Reference.com

Summary and statistics for the 1947 BAA Finals - Stags vs. Warriors

www.basketball-reference.com

So what's your breakdown of that series?

 

[MAGA2024]

Then stop talking about it.

Like I have said before Russell's the greatest winner of all time not the greatest player.

You gotta start paying attention to his ppg average and his lousy FG%. Those two stats keep him out of the GOAT conversation.

WTH are you babbling about, stop talking about it... this is the first time I'm discussing Russell genius. I thought the "topic" of the thread I started was legit; however no one seems interested in that, so the conversation drifted.

That said you ought to understand that "context and perspective" matters, if you even want to have a GOAT discussion.

Using context and perspective yes, Russell wasn't a dominating Scorer; however he wasn't some bottom of the barrel scrub on Offense either. On the flipside he was excellent-to-GOAT-level in every other facet of the game, especially Defense... and last I checked Defense is HALF the game, and Defense is the Number 1 reason why those Celtics won 11 Championships.

By contrast Wilt was the most dominating Scorer of his Era by far, yet he's only got 2 rings AND in the Finals during his two Championship seasons he averaged just 22 and 15 PPG, focusing more on other facets (namely Defense, like Russell had done his entire career).

Writing Russell off simply because he didn't score big numbers is foolish, and not a very informed assessment of his value and greatness as a player.

 

[MAGA2024]

So what's your breakdown of that series?

I couldn't care less... you asked about it.

Are you being stupid on purpose?

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

Well…

That is because current rules reward skill over athleticism.

If that were the case, someone of LeBron's limited repertoire wouldn't be the all time leader in points. The bulk of his points are 0-3 feet or free throws resulting from drives.

Less athletic players excelling today like Luka, Curry, Brunson etc are more skilled than anyone from Jordan’s era.

Correction; today's players have virtually no restrictions on dribbling, thus giving the false impression of superior skills and abilities.

 

[Wamu]

I couldn't care less... you asked about it.

Are you being stupid on purpose?

Actually I'm making fun of you for keeping your silly crusade going.

And why did call me names? That hurt.

 

[Wamu]

If that were the case, someone of LeBron's limited repertoire wouldn't be the all time leader in points. The bulk of his points are 0-3 feet or free throws resulting from drives.


Correction; today's players have virtually no restrictions on dribbling, thus giving the false impression of superior skills and abilities.

"LeBron's limited repertoire"

 

[MAGA2024]

If that were the case, someone of LeBron's limited repertoire wouldn't be the all time leader in points. The bulk of his points are 0-3 feet or free throws resulting from drives.


Correction; today's players have virtually no restrictions on dribbling, thus giving the false impression of superior skills and abilities.

Great point. Palming/carrying and taking 3-4 steps is routiely overlooked, driving to the basket where no one protects the rim (since all the Bigs are on the perimeter chucking 3's), taking 5-10 long-range shots a game and MISSING 65% of the time on average... yeah, it takes mad skillzzzz to Score in this Era.

lol

 

[MAGA2024]

Actually I'm making fun of you for keeping your silly crusade going.

And why did call me names? That hurt.

lol... what crusade fool? Starting a thread about how many FMVP Russell would have won?

You're a weird one, but whatever.

 

[Wamu]

lol... what crusade fool? Starting a thread about how many FMVP Russell would have won?

You're a weird one, but whatever.

Why are you so angry?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

The GOAT debate is already boring to me no matter who is being discussed

WTH are you babbling about, stop talking about it... this is the first time I'm discussing Russell genius. I thought the "topic" of the thread I started was legit; however no one seems interested in that, so the conversation drifted.

That said you ought to understand that "context and perspective" matters, if you even want to have a GOAT discussion.

Using context and perspective yes, Russell wasn't a dominating Scorer; however he wasn't some bottom of the barrel scrub on Offense either. On the flipside he was excellent-to-GOAT-level in every other facet of the game, especially Defense... and last I checked Defense is HALF the game, and Defense is the Number 1 reason why those Celtics won 11 Championships.

By contrast Wilt was the most dominating Scorer of his Era by far, yet he's only got 2 rings AND in the Finals during his two Championship seasons he averaged just 22 and 15 PPG, focusing more on other facets (namely Defense, like Russell had done his entire career).

Writing Russell off simply because he didn't score big numbers is foolish, and not a very informed assessment of his value and greatness as a player.

Any advanced analytics of him on offense is that he was meh on O.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

Great point. Palming/carrying and taking 3-4 steps is routiely overlooked, driving to the basket where no one protects the rim (since all the Bigs are on the perimeter chucking 3's), taking 5-10 long-range shots a game and MISSING 65% of the time on average... yeah, it takes mad skillzzzz to Score in this Era.

lol

Yep. Virtually every crossover/dribbling highlight in today's game is a violation under '90s rules.

 

[Wamu]

Yep. Virtually every crossover/dribbling highlight in today's game is a violation under '90s rules.

Did you know LeBron created the illegal crossover dribble?

 

[tlance]

Jordan most certainly utilized strength in a BIG way both in the Paint and in the Post because back then (especially the latter half of the 90's overall, and the EC in general throughout the 90's) the game was much more half-court oriented than anything you see today), where the Pace slowed and the floor was much more crowded. As such, Jordan had less room to operate (unlike today with soooo much Spacing you could drive a Semi through the lane and not touch a single defender - lol)... so he had to balance his speed/quickness (going right or left off the dribble) with more "skilled" shooting, like his lights-out 15-20 foot mid-range shot, and his unguardable Turnround in the Post (utilizing his elite-level footwork and ballhandling "skills").

Offensively speaking Jordan's skills were second to none, and quite frankly the more you comment on Jordan/90's the more it becomes apparent that you're not a student of his game, or that era... or you're trolling.

Jordan would completely destroy today's NBA. This isn't even a debate.

I watched almost every game Jordan played.

He was a great offensive weapon.

But the three main skills in offensive basketball are shooting, ball handling and passing.

And there are plenty of guys who do all 3 better.

Jordan was among the best ever at creating space and leverage with his footwork, then using his athleticism to finish the play.

But you can’t honestly say that his shooting or ball handling skill is anywhere close to a Steph Curry or a Kyrie Irving.

The most skilled players today are simply the most skilled players of all time.

And I don’t think that is even really debatable.

 

[tlance]

If that were the case, someone of LeBron's limited repertoire wouldn't be the all time leader in points. The bulk of his points are 0-3 feet or free throws resulting from drives.


Correction; today's players have virtually no restrictions on dribbling, thus giving the false impression of superior skills and abilities.

Wrong.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Well…

That is because current rules reward skill over athleticism.

Less athletic players excelling today like Luka, Curry, Brunson etc are more skilled than anyone from Jordan’s era.

Larry Bird and even Magic were never the most athletic cats out there, but they dominated.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Great point. Palming/carrying and taking 3-4 steps is routiely overlooked,

You must not have watched MJ at all

 

[tlance]

Larry Bird and even Magic were never the most athletic cats out there, but they dominated.

True.

It was more the 90s which I consider MJ’s era into the early 2000s where you just didn’t see many guys ascending to the top like that unless they were physical freaks.

Most of those guys had skills too, but not like Curry or yes Bird.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I watched almost every game Jordan played.

He was a great offensive weapon.

But the three main skills in offensive basketball are shooting, ball handling and passing.

And there are plenty of guys who do all 3 better.

Jordan was among the best ever at creating space and leverage with his footwork, then using his athleticism to finish the play.

But you can’t honestly say that his shooting or ball handling skill is anywhere close to a Steph Curry or a Kyrie Irving.

The most skilled players today are simply the most skilled players of all time.

And I don’t think that is even really debatable.

I watched most of Jordan as it happened.

You’re right in that he wasn’t elite in any bland area straight up, but I’ll say these things
- the guy wasn’t the fastest, but he ran around like he had springs in his legs. He had explosion and sudden bursts like no one else in his era. His early career was all about going upstairs and going to the rack. He and Dominique had a rivalry in that aspect of the game.
- While he doesn’t have Kyries handles, I would say he and Kyrie have that ability to finish in amazing ways that leave you dumbfounded
- His build and posture was made for 18-20ft, which was his office when he came back in 94-95. He had an elite mid-range game.. although he would try to shoot out of slumps and would have horrible shooting nights..

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

But the three main skills in offensive basketball are shooting, ball handling and passing.

LeBron has been quite mediocre at two of those things and done just fine.

 

[tlance]

I watched most of Jordan as it happened.

You’re right in that he wasn’t elite in any bland area straight up, but I’ll say these things
- the guy wasn’t the fastest, but he ran around like he had springs in his legs. He had explosion and sudden bursts like no one else in his era. His early career was all about going upstairs and going to the rack. He and Dominique had a rivalry in that aspect of the game.
- While he doesn’t have Kyries handles, I would say he and Kyrie have that ability to finish in amazing ways that leave you dumbfounded
- His build and posture was made for 18-20ft, which was his office when he came back in 94-95. He had an elite mid-range game.. although he would try to shoot out of slumps and would have horrible shooting nights..

Agree.

Never seen a better finisher than Jordan. He had the ability to make the crazy finesse shots like Kyrie, but also the explosive power to dunk on bigger players and the strength to finish through contact.

He was special no doubt.