Game Thread: Bengals Steelers Shootout

[cincygrad]

Another excellent showing from the 2024 Cincinnati Bengals. I have to give Arthur Smith and the Pittsburgh coaching staff a lot of credit. They watched some film of the Bengals missing tackles and basically just threw check downs knowing that it couldn't be stopped. It says a lot that an NFL team is powerless against a 2 yard pass to a running back, but the ineptitude of this D knows no bounds. Hell, on the final play, Justin Fields admitted that he was confused that the Bengals didn't defend it.

What a depressing season.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

The Steelers hadn’t scored 40 points since midway through the 2018 season. They had 545 yards of offense, most in a game since 2018. Russell Wilson had his third 400 yard passing game of his career, first since 2021.

The Bengals are now the first team in NFL history to lose 4 games scoring 33 points or more.

Joe Burrow is averaging 275 passing yards a game. Five of the last six QBs to do so won MVP. Burrow not only won’t even be considered, he is the only one to have a losing record.

Lou Anarumo needs to be fired immediately. Duke Tobin should also be gone. They have both failed this team this year.

Burrow for the first time in a post game presser demanded changes be made. If ownership tries to maintain status quo, I hope Burrow demands a trade. I hope the stands are empty from here on out.

 

[cincygrad]

The Steelers hadn’t scored 40 points since midway through the 2018 season. They had 545 yards of offense, most in a game since 2018. Russell Wilson had his third 400 yard passing game of his career, first since 2021.

The Bengals are now the first team in NFL history to lose 4 games scoring 33 points or more.

Joe Burrow is averaging 275 passing yards a game. Five of the last six QBs to do so won MVP. Burrow not only won’t even be considered, he is the only one to have a losing record.

Lou Anarumo needs to be fired immediately. Duke Tobin should also be gone. They have both failed this team this year.

Burrow for the first time in a post game presser demanded changes be made. If ownership tries to maintain status quo, I hope Burrow demands a trade. I hope the stands are empty from here on out.

We know Duke isn't leaving. I'm not even sure if we want him to, unless we really believe a replacement could do better with the constraints that Tobin has to function under - Tiny staff, outdated view on contracts, etc. Don't get me wrong, Duke has never demonstrated an ability to draft or recruit FA with sustained success. He's benefited from a few different years where he got it right, but overall he's been wrong more than right. But, he is playing with one hand behind his back.

Lou absolutely needs to go. At this point, I am no longer rooting for an in-season firing. My fear is that we would look good against some back-up QBs and decide the replacement was good enough to be the next DC. This team needs new ideas on that side of the ball. I think it's a good job for an experienced coordinator. Should be a lot of freedom given Taylor is an offense guy. And it would be hard to be worse than what was put on the field this year.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Imagine being Taylor going into the Bye week and not thinking anything needed to change.

I've long advocated for him as a HC, but can't stand his offensive approach. I'm now re-thinking his ability as a HC. As good as he's been with players, his inability (or unwillingness) to make tough calls and changes on a team that absolutely had (and has) Super Bowl aspirations makes me think that maybe he's not the right guy at the top helm.

If he is going to survive this season - he's going to have to make some serious changes - and actually follow through on them. That's another trend that has picked up over the last few years. A lot of talk about changes and doing things differently, only to see things remain nearly identical to how they were before.

 

[cincygrad]

Imagine being Taylor going into the Bye week and not thinking anything needed to change.

I've long advocated for him as a HC, but can't stand his offensive approach. I'm now re-thinking his ability as a HC. As good as he's been with players, his inability (or unwillingness) to make tough calls and changes on a team that absolutely had (and has) Super Bowl aspirations makes me think that maybe he's not the right guy at the top helm.

If he is going to survive this season - he's going to have to make some serious changes - and actually follow through on them. That's another trend that has picked up over the last few years. A lot of talk about changes and doing things differently, only to see things remain nearly identical to how they were before.

Imagine being Zac Taylor, knowing that he has nothing to fear with regards to job security. That is why he has the luxury of not making changes. I do think it's admirable that the team continues to play hard because I see a team that probably should just quit. They have no chance given the current talent, scheme and circumstances. I'm not one of these people that think the coach needs to start yelling on the sidelines or needs to call guys out in the media, but Zac's constant 'just one play different' messaging really doesn't resonate anymore after 6 years of his record in one score games. Aside from the playoff run, the Bengals have continuously been bad in one score games and there is no reason to expect it to change without different coaches.

My strong assumption is that Zac gets to stay. The Bengals will justify it with stats showing that their offense was one of the best in the league and that Zac is a big part of it. I do think Lou is gone - It will be interesting to see if the Bengals are serious about fixing their D and they take a serious d coordinator. Or, will they find some bum that is happy to keep a bunch of the same position coaches and will do the role for cheap. Unlike when they hired Taylor, I do think the job could be an attractive one for a seasoned candidate. Someone like Saleh could do well and rebuild his reputation. But, that's not really the Bengals way, so we'll see......

 

[DanBengalfan]

the coaching staff has to take some responsibility. they can't just say "aww, well, the players didn't work hard enough. they didn't want it as bad as the other team." we have several medium sized contracts on a defense that hasn't performed well. it's time to reboot some things. I don't even know if using 7 rounds of draft picks on the defense will help enough.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Imagine being Zac Taylor, knowing that he has nothing to fear with regards to job security. That is why he has the luxury of not making changes. I do think it's admirable that the team continues to play hard because I see a team that probably should just quit. They have no chance given the current talent, scheme and circumstances. I'm not one of these people that think the coach needs to start yelling on the sidelines or needs to call guys out in the media, but Zac's constant 'just one play different' messaging really doesn't resonate anymore after 6 years of his record in one score games. Aside from the playoff run, the Bengals have continuously been bad in one score games and there is no reason to expect it to change without different coaches.

My strong assumption is that Zac gets to stay. The Bengals will justify it with stats showing that their offense was one of the best in the league and that Zac is a big part of it. I do think Lou is gone - It will be interesting to see if the Bengals are serious about fixing their D and they take a serious d coordinator. Or, will they find some bum that is happy to keep a bunch of the same position coaches and will do the role for cheap. Unlike when they hired Taylor, I do think the job could be an attractive one for a seasoned candidate. Someone like Saleh could do well and rebuild his reputation. But, that's not really the Bengals way, so we'll see......

Oh, I don't think Zach is getting fired...but changes will likely be a big topic of discussion because if he doesn't make changes, and they continue down this path - he will not make it through next season.

You simply cannot have this offense and have the record they have because they refuse to make changes on defense.

 

[cincygrad]

Oh, I don't think Zach is getting fired...but changes will likely be a big topic of discussion because if he doesn't make changes, and they continue down this path - he will not make it through next season.

You simply cannot have this offense and have the record they have because they refuse to make changes on defense.

I agree. The stats get worse every week..... The Bengals are going to set ridiculous records for points and yards scored in a losing season. And we're not done yet - The Cowboys D has been a mess this year and they've had a lot of injuries. It's easy to see a shoot out coming on MNF. Also easy to see us going 0-2 lifetime against Cooper Rush.

 

[alf8478]

I agree. The stats get worse every week..... The Bengals are going to set ridiculous records for points and yards scored in a losing season. And we're not done yet - The Cowboys D has been a mess this year and they've had a lot of injuries. It's easy to see a shoot out coming on MNF. Also easy to see us going 0-2 lifetime against Cooper Rush.

Unfortunately I'll be there Monday night, so I am full preparing myself for a national embarrassment.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Unfortunately I'll be there Monday night, so I am full preparing myself for a national embarrassment.

Vaya Con Dios!

 

[Cincyfan78]

I agree. The stats get worse every week..... The Bengals are going to set ridiculous records for points and yards scored in a losing season. And we're not done yet - The Cowboys D has been a mess this year and they've had a lot of injuries. It's easy to see a shoot out coming on MNF. Also easy to see us going 0-2 lifetime against Cooper Rush.

I mean - it's one thing to miss on a player here and there. That happens. What we are seeing right now, is that 12-13-14 guys ALL suck on defense? Guys that were either pretty damned good in college (CTB, Murphy, etc...) or veterans who were really good previously (Stone, Rankins).

Then, when you go back and objectively look at that defense in the 21/22 season, you realize....turnovers were a HUGE key. The defense was never great, it was lucky in some ways. Now, you create your own luck with turnovers by being good in some areas, but this defense currently isn't good enough to do what is needed for the scheme.

There was a breakdown the other day after Sunday on like 10 plays that should never happen in the NFL, and they all happened in the Sunday game on defense for the Bengals. Key among them was the final play where Fields runs wide open for the clinching 1st down - Pratt, a veteran of this defense, comes up to the line and gets blocked 6-7 yards down field (Talk about a guy who has fallen off a cliff and suddenly looks OLD, much like Bell)...then Newsome slants inside, and then Stone (I think it is) also gets pulled inside - leaving 0 people on the edge to defend what was, likely, a VERY high probability play of Fields keeping the ball and trying to scat outside for the yards. The players failed, and the coaches should have been all over that prior to the play once Fields was in at QB...should have been covered easily in the game prep and then called out again at that moment. Clearly, it was not.

Lou has had a decent run here - but this defense is an abject failure. From failing to develop another edge, to poor LB play, to poor secondary play - it has now been a trend. I think Lou for his services, but this defense needs an attitude and attacking manner about them to succeed in the AFCN. It's no coincidence that the record in the AFCN under Taylor isn't great...even with Burrow and it took Lamar being injured a few times, the Browns being the Browns, and a slight down-turn for the Steelers...and even then.....

 

[Cincyfan78]

Plays I referred to:

x.com

x.com

part 2

x.com

x.com

Final Play

x.com

x.com

 

[cincygrad]

I mean - it's one thing to miss on a player here and there. That happens. What we are seeing right now, is that 12-13-14 guys ALL suck on defense? Guys that were either pretty damned good in college (CTB, Murphy, etc...) or veterans who were really good previously (Stone, Rankins).

Then, when you go back and objectively look at that defense in the 21/22 season, you realize....turnovers were a HUGE key. The defense was never great, it was lucky in some ways. Now, you create your own luck with turnovers by being good in some areas, but this defense currently isn't good enough to do what is needed for the scheme.

There was a breakdown the other day after Sunday on like 10 plays that should never happen in the NFL, and they all happened in the Sunday game on defense for the Bengals. Key among them was the final play where Fields runs wide open for the clinching 1st down - Pratt, a veteran of this defense, comes up to the line and gets blocked 6-7 yards down field (Talk about a guy who has fallen off a cliff and suddenly looks OLD, much like Bell)...then Newsome slants inside, and then Stone (I think it is) also gets pulled inside - leaving 0 people on the edge to defend what was, likely, a VERY high probability play of Fields keeping the ball and trying to scat outside for the yards. The players failed, and the coaches should have been all over that prior to the play once Fields was in at QB...should have been covered easily in the game prep and then called out again at that moment. Clearly, it was not.

Lou has had a decent run here - but this defense is an abject failure. From failing to develop another edge, to poor LB play, to poor secondary play - it has now been a trend. I think Lou for his services, but this defense needs an attitude and attacking manner about them to succeed in the AFCN. It's no coincidence that the record in the AFCN under Taylor isn't great...even with Burrow and it took Lamar being injured a few times, the Browns being the Browns, and a slight down-turn for the Steelers...and even then.....

I agree. And this is why I don't think it's as easy to just say the Bengals don't have enough scouts and that Duke is terrible at talent evaluation. Both of those things can be true, but it still wouldn't explain why the D is this bad. It's not that they are playing a bunch of guys that were projects in college or pros, or are playing out of position. As you mention, many of these guys were good in other schemes or were good prospects when we drafted them. Murphy, Hill, CTB, Turner, and Jenkins are all guys that were drafted where the consensus had them graded. Zach Carter and McKinley Jackson were reaches, but it's hard to get interior d linemen outside the first round and sometimes you have to take a crack at it.

Look around the league this year. A team like the Chargers is night and day different from the trainwreck they were on D by the end of the Staley run. Look at where the Eagles are now that they've picked up Fangio's scheme. That D was considered too slow on the second level and hopelessly flawed going into the offseason.

Ultimately all of those mistakes that we saw on Sunday can't be do to the fact that we let a safety walk two years ago. They also can't be do to missing an inside linebacker. Linebackers get hurt - Happens every week without defenses falling completely apart. Free agents walk - If it isn't your QB, it can't be the difference between 6 wins and 12 wins. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[cincygrad]

Unfortunately I'll be there Monday night, so I am full preparing myself for a national embarrassment.

I can't decide if this is the week they completely give up and are run out of the building or if this is the week that they win big and everyone laments what could have been this season. I lean toward the former.... I think they will be completely defeated before starting the game. If it's the latter, we'll probably hear more about the future of the Cowboys than anything the Bengals might have done on the field, but whatever.....

Have fun. Looks like an awesome atmosphere.

 

[DanBengalfan]

we're technically not eliminated, but faced with an improbable task. the defense rests.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I will also be there Monday night. Can’t wait to see Geno Stone 10 yards out of position and Germaine Pratt mail it in on a tackle in space in person.

WHO DEY!

 

[cincygrad]

I will also be there Monday night. Can’t wait to see Geno Stone 10 yards out of position and Germaine Pratt mail it in on a tackle in space in person.

WHO DEY!

I'm told that going to a modern NBA game in person you can't help but be mesmerized speed and athleticism of modern basketball players. I wonder what the exact opposite feeling is watching Geno Stone in person.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Sometimes a team needs to reevaluate their current talent. hell, everyone one of our bosses do it at work, why don't they do it to the Bengals? weird.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Sometimes a team needs to reevaluate their current talent. hell, everyone one of our bosses do it at work, why don't they do it to the Bengals? weird.

I agree - but not all 15 guys in the defensive rotation suck. As I said before, some of the younger kids were highly rated, well thought of, and played very well at a high level in college. Some of them had some 1st years that looked good (notably CTB) and then suddenly dropped off.

I might not think too much about that, but we see it with veterans, too. Guys who were, again, thought of as good players and good fits around the league when they signed here. Rankins. Stone. Battle was one of the top rated Safeties last year in that rookie class. Had an 80-somerthing PFF grade. Suddenly he sucks? Stone, the same. Rankins the same.

I refuse to believe that every single player just sucks. At some point, guys can try their best, but the scheme and coaching is just bringing it all down.

The more I think about it, the more I truly believe Lou should have been fired weeks ago (or definitely during the Bye week) - continuing on this path is only more and more detrimental to younger players.

Guys like Pratt stick out - he looks old. Slow. Same for Bell. There are going to be guys who are just misses in general (anyone seen Joseph Ossai?). But to have a team full of guys who were, somewhere, pretty good, and to have ALL of them suddenly drop off...something went south, and in a hurry with this defense...

Again, the more and more I go back and objectively look at some of those "good" stretches on the defense...the more and more the turnovers pop out as a masking agent for how bad the scheme really was/is. Bend but don't break is a poor approach to defense, IMO - because eventually the damn breaks. Turnovers, while schemed up and created by varying schemes, are a bit luck of the draw and can't be a basis for building a long-term sustainable defense. You need to be able to get the other teams' offense off the field in 3-7 plays. You start allowing 8-9-10 play drives, and even if they get a turnover here, or hold them to a FG there - that defense starts to wear down. Your offense is sitting a long time...and the more the other teams' offense gets on the field, the more chances they have of finding that crack that causes the damn to crumble.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Also, I want to point out a big contention I have in general with athletes and injuries.

There are guys who are hurt, but that means you can sustain your usual level of play, or close to it. Maybe a slight drop, but nothing so bad that you'd think "OK, he's got to get out of here".

Then there are injuries. Injured players are guys who suffer a noticeable drop in play. Those are the guys who talk about toughing it out for the team, but in reality - they are hurting the team with their play.

I say this because, one of the big issues with this defense has been the lack of another DE opposite of Trey. Hubbard, apparently, should have had surgery on his hamstring. Likely, it would have meant the season for him. Instead, he's played through it. He's been one of the worst rated DE's in the NFL this year. Why do they continue to run him out there? I get it, losing a DE that was expected to be in the rotation early on sucks. Losing Myles for the first 3-4 weeks would have been a big blow if Hubbard was also out. But what if, you just took those lumps, or went out for another replacement player for 2-3 weeks...and then you get Murphy back - and he gets a full, near, season of reps.

Long way of saying - when guys are hurt, it's one thing...but I can't stand when guys are injured to a point where it is obvious their play on the field is a net negative and refuse to admit they are that hurt, and sit themselves. Just another area, IMO, where the staff has failed to really make a change that has been LONG overdue.