4706 Looking Onward: Plans and Speculation geared for a Cup Run

[awaz]

The first problem I still see is that JVR is worth more then Schenn and I don't think Burke will realistically concede to that fact. Offensive prospects are given more leeway then defensive prospects in this league and they retain their value better. JVR have been predicted to be a 35+g a yr impact player and Schenn has been projected to be a 2nd pair physical stay at home d-man. Who has the higher value there?


Other then that I see your point and agree with you. I was merely suggesting if we know Carle will be gone at season's end and is in the habit of disappearing for games we might as well get some added grit not to mention Ruutu is no offensive slouch, he scores dirty goals that we'll defintly need come the playoffs(not to mention he can also kill penalties to help relieve some of those minutes off G if his time become and issue). I really hope to not to have to rely on Shelley at all for any kind of contribution from here on out though. Also Coburn and Mez need to find their hitting game soon, we have way too many games coming up against Atlantice division teams that we need to win 75-80% and hopefully not lose any games in regulation(unrealistic possibly, but it'd be nice).


In the end seeing Schenn and Gill here would be amazing, and in the off season we could pursuer Suter if we wanted to. I'm just not sure that's how things are going to play out with Burke overvaluing his players and MTL knowing Gill is in heavy demand. As long as we don't give up Schenn, Cooter, G, Read & our 1st for this year(preferably we keep JVR too) we'll be fine in the long run. I just don't want to see Homer over-pay because he thinks this is a win it all or nothing year.

dont get me wrong, i like ruutu, i just think carle is a better fit for the team.. they need defense, even if they add a defender or two, i'd rather have a 3rd defender then a forward in that situation.. especially if you consider betts might try to return (he's been skating).. cause that would make 17 forwards that i wouldn't be scared of playing

and the schenn thing.. jvr and a 3rd is the most i'd give up.. i wouldn't tell burke that because i think it should be about straight up.. schenn was touted as a top d-man when he was drafted.. maybe we heard different things, but he was touted much higher than a 2nd pair physical dman (which, btw, i would take).. and i think burke's desire to make a splash outweighs the overvaluing of his players.. the leafs are going to make a trade, and their targets are bobby ryan and jvr.. if the ducks refuse to trade ryan, which they should, and i expect them to.. then the leafs and flyers will make a trade.. and i think homer would settle for giving up a 3rd to make the jvr for schenn trade happen.. you also gotta keep in mind jvr is going to cost 4.25 against the cap next season.. if he had that rate this season people would be clamoring for a bag of pucks in return.. if he doesn't improve, quickly, that contract is going to be an albatross

i love jvr, if he played like he did in the playoffs once a week this season he'd lead the flyers in goals no problem.. for some reason he just hasn't.. and its not people giving up on him, he's been in the league for 2 and a half seasons now.. i know it 'takes longer for power forwards' but the only guy i ever hear him compared to is bobby ryan, but bobby ryan was 2.5 times the player jvr is at this point in his career

imo the flyers need to move some of their young talent on offense, for young talent on defense.. and jvr for schenn just makes a lot of sense to me.. two guys that are underachieving that could use a change of scenery.. if it takes an extra draft pick that may or may not work out, i'd do it.. personally i think it should be straight up, but adding a 3rd round pick isn't a deal breaker for me.. its something that the flyers need to do if they want to make a noticeable splash at the deadline.. i'm also ok if they just go after gill or grossman, or schultz from washington, who nobody talks about, but he could be had for just a 3rd i bet (he's been a healthy scratch of late), and that would add some size and depth to the d.. zidlicky is also looking to get out and he could be had on the cheap as another healthy scratch.. not really what the flyers need, but a right-hand shot for the PP wouldn't hurt

i am of the same belief though.. dont trade schenn, couturier, read, or our 1st round pick (unless one of them and the pick are going for weber).. this is not the year to sell the farm for a cup run.. i just think jvr for schenn makes this team better now, and in the future, even if a pick has to be sent as well (the flyers do have the option of having two 3rd round picks this season i think --from FLA in the versteeg trade)

 

[dspice07]

ugh im going to start looking for my tag from my JVR jersey.....

 

[Maverick426h]

I would trade for Nicklas Grossman. He brings the physicality, solid defense, 19 minutes plus a game and with all do respect would be a giant upgrade over Bourdon defensively, who will get schooled in the playoffs. In addition, he's cheap and would not fetch one of our young, talented forwards, just a draft pick that we don't need.

This is just one of the two or three guys I would target. More than likely the others would be more offensively gifted. We're just not good enough defensively yet and this guy would certainly help in that area.

 

[lasgop8]

dont get me wrong, i like ruutu, i just think carle is a better fit for the team.. they need defense, even if they add a defender or two, i'd rather have a 3rd defender then a forward in that situation.. especially if you consider betts might try to return (he's been skating).. cause that would make 17 forwards that i wouldn't be scared of playing

and the schenn thing.. jvr and a 3rd is the most i'd give up.. i wouldn't tell burke that because i think it should be about straight up.. schenn was touted as a top d-man when he was drafted.. maybe we heard different things, but he was touted much higher than a 2nd pair physical dman (which, btw, i would take).. and i think burke's desire to make a splash outweighs the overvaluing of his players.. the leafs are going to make a trade, and their targets are bobby ryan and jvr.. if the ducks refuse to trade ryan, which they should, and i expect them to.. then the leafs and flyers will make a trade.. and i think homer would settle for giving up a 3rd to make the jvr for schenn trade happen.. you also gotta keep in mind jvr is going to cost 4.25 against the cap next season.. if he had that rate this season people would be clamoring for a bag of pucks in return.. if he doesn't improve, quickly, that contract is going to be an albatross

i love jvr, if he played like he did in the playoffs once a week this season he'd lead the flyers in goals no problem.. for some reason he just hasn't.. and its not people giving up on him, he's been in the league for 2 and a half seasons now.. i know it 'takes longer for power forwards' but the only guy i ever hear him compared to is bobby ryan, but bobby ryan was 2.5 times the player jvr is at this point in his career

imo the flyers need to move some of their young talent on offense, for young talent on defense.. and jvr for schenn just makes a lot of sense to me.. two guys that are underachieving that could use a change of scenery.. if it takes an extra draft pick that may or may not work out, i'd do it.. personally i think it should be straight up, but adding a 3rd round pick isn't a deal breaker for me.. its something that the flyers need to do if they want to make a noticeable splash at the deadline.. i'm also ok if they just go after gill or grossman, or schultz from washington, who nobody talks about, but he could be had for just a 3rd i bet (he's been a healthy scratch of late), and that would add some size and depth to the d.. zidlicky is also looking to get out and he could be had on the cheap as another healthy scratch.. not really what the flyers need, but a right-hand shot for the PP wouldn't hurt

i am of the same belief though.. dont trade schenn, couturier, read, or our 1st round pick (unless one of them and the pick are going for weber).. this is not the year to sell the farm for a cup run.. i just think jvr for schenn makes this team better now, and in the future, even if a pick has to be sent as well (the flyers do have the option of having two 3rd round picks this season i think --from FLA in the versteeg trade)

I just dont see how anyone could call this guy a power forward. Nothing he does in his entire game resembles what a power forward does. he doesnt stand in front of the net,he doesnt check anyone at all,he doesnt score goals from close in and he certainly doesnt help out in any scuffles, so if you want to say it takes power forwards longer to develop, this may be true but it definately doesnt apply to JVR.

 

[Maverick426h]

JvR has been playing injured for much of the season, he is now concussed and he's still only 22 years old, so frankly, I'm willing to give him a pass until next season. Unfortunately, that may be too late as his future success may be with another team.

 

[lasgop8]

JvR has been playing injured for much of the season, he is now concussed and he's still only 22 years old, so frankly, I'm willing to give him a pass until next season. Unfortunately, that may be too late as his future success may be with another team.

2007 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

This guy was drafted in 2007 at the number 2 spot, he's got 97 points in 190 games How long are you willing to wait. Wayne simmonds drafted last in the 2nd rouns has more production and is a better all around player. How long can we wait???

 

[Maverick426h]

2007 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

This guy was drafted in 2007 at the number 2 spot, he's got 97 points in 190 games How long are you willing to wait. Wayne simmonds drafted last in the 2nd rouns has more production and is a better all around player. How long can we wait???

Yeah and Simmonds has played in 100 more games. You think that has anything at all to do with his higher point total? That's an entire season plus a quarter of another season of extra playing time. As everyone knows, going to college stunted JvR's growth. Meanwhile, guys like Kane and Gagner went straight into the Nhl and have benefited. Obviously their point totals are a lot higher too with two more seasons under their belts.

I'd definitely give JvR another season.

 

[jerseyjigroe]

2007 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

This guy was drafted in 2007 at the number 2 spot, he's got 97 points in 190 games How long are you willing to wait. Wayne simmonds drafted last in the 2nd rouns has more production and is a better all around player. How long can we wait???

I really like Simmonds. With that said, he doesn't have the skills or potential that JVR has.

 

[lasgop8]

Yeah and Simmonds has played in 100 more games. You think that has anything at all to do with his higher point total? That's an entire season plus a quarter of another season of extra playing time. As everyone knows, going to college stunted JvR's growth. Meanwhile, guys like Kane and Gagner went straight into the Nhl and have benefited. Obviously their point totals are a lot higher too with two more seasons under their belt.

There is a reason that guys like Simmonds and Kane and Gagner went straight to the pros as i've pointed out several times JVR is a big puss and those other guys are not. At this point in both their careers Simmonds is a way better 2 way player than JVR will ever be and Simmonds is still getting better where as JVR is not.

 

[awaz]

Yeah and Simmonds has played in 100 more games. You think that has anything at all to do with his higher point total? That's an entire season plus a quarter of another season of extra playing time. As everyone knows, going to college stunted JvR's growth. Meanwhile, guys like Kane and Gagner went straight into the Nhl and have benefited. Obviously their point totals are a lot higher too with two more seasons under their belts.

I'd definitely give JvR another season.

giving him another season means paying him 4.25 against the cap.. he's going to have to improve a lot to be worth that.. not saying he cant, but i dont think moving him should be out of the question

 

[lasgop8]

I really like Simmonds. With that said, he doesn't have the skills or potential that JVR has.

Please just tell me what skills JVR has that you see all this potential. the only reason anyone sees him as having potential is because he was picked 2nd in the draft. Please list these skills he has i'd love to know what ive been missing.

 

[jerseyjigroe]

giving him another season means paying him 4.25 against the cap.. he's going to have to improve a lot to be worth that.. not saying he cant, but i dont think moving him should be out of the question

I'm not opposed to moving him, but if Homer does move him I want it to be from a position of strength. I want fair value and not just a bunch of shit for him. JVR for L. Schenn seems pretty close.

 

[Maverick426h]

giving him another season means paying him 4.25 against the cap.. he's going to have to improve a lot to be worth that.. not saying he cant, but i dont think moving him should be out of the question

Moving him is not out of the question. Why? Because he will be considerably more expensive, he does have value and is sought after, plus we can probably win games without him now and moving forward (especially if a stout, young defenseman is coming the other way). Also, because we have other needs (defense) that are more pressing than him being at 100% and producing.

That said, I think he's going to live up to his contract extension and then some at the end of the day...

 

[jerseyjigroe]

Please just tell me what skills JVR has that you see all this potential. the only reason anyone sees him as having potential is because he was picked 2nd in the draft. Please list these skills he has i'd love to know what ive been missing.

Hard shot, big body, good hands, good skating. Just go back and look at him in the playoffs. He just needs consistency. He has the skills to be a great player but some times I question his heart.

 

[awaz]

Moving him is not out of the question. Why? Because he will be considerably more expensive, he does have value and is sought after, plus we can probably win games without him now and moving forward (especially if a stout, young defenseman is coming the other way). Also, because we have other needs (defense) that are more pressing than him being at 100% and producing.

That said, I think he's going to live up to his contract extension and then some at the end of the day...

ya we'll just have to see what kind of player he is in 2-3 years.. the only reason i'm on the move JvR bandwagon is because he has the value to bring back a quality d-man without giving up a whole lot else..

right now the move that would benefit the flyers most, is bringing in a young star-prospect on defense.. and to do that, a young star-prospect on offense is going to need to be moved.. and i'd rather see them move jvr then schenn or couturier.. thats really the only reason i say that.. because if jvr ever turns in to the player we saw in the playoffs, you bet your ass i want him here

 

[awaz]

Hard shot, big body, good hands, good skating. Just go back and look at him in the playoffs. He just needs consistency. He has the skills to be a great player but some times I question his heart.

that. that's the reason he's behind schenn and couturier on my list.

 

[lasgop8]

Hard shot, big body, good hands, good skating. Just go back and look at him in the playoffs. He just needs consistency. He has the skills to be a great player but some times I question his heart.

Hard Shot that never gets used because he tries his one move every time that fails every time, and his shot is not a rocket
Big body is just plain laughable as he NEVER hits anyone or uses it in front of the net or in a scuffle
Good skating but not good enough to get around a defenseman as his one move NEVER works
His playoffs VS Boston is the most overated thing in history of sports which resulted in 1 goal 0 assists and a minus 3 for the series.

i guess if you play 10 good game and 182 invisible games you just keep getting called a player with potential. 5 years after being the number 2 pick in the draft the guy has shown very little abilty i expect more of a number 2 draft pick

 

[jerseyjigroe]

Hard Shot that never gets used because he tries his one move every time that fails every time, and his shot is not a rocket
Big body is just plain laughable as he NEVER hits anyone or uses it in front of the net or in a scuffle
Good skating but not good enough to get around a defenseman as his one move NEVER works
His playoffs VS Boston is the most overated thing in history of sports which resulted in 1 goal 0 assists and a minus 3 for the series.

i guess if you play 10 good game and 182 invisible games you just keep getting called a player with potential. 5 years after being the number 2 pick in the draft the guy has shown very little abilty i expect more of a number 2 draft pick

Last year I went to the skills competition that the Flyers had. JVR was the only one on the team to crack 100 mph w/ a slap shot.

 

[dspice07]

Last year I went to the skills competition that the Flyers had. JVR was the only one on the team to crack 100 mph w/ a slap shot.

lol i have tried convincing las of JVR's good side, but he does make valid points.

i think what most of us whom are opposed to moving him is that he passes the 'eye test'. i see flashes of a good player and i cant really explain it,(or explain to las what the hell i see in him) i just dont want him to go.

 

[jerseyjigroe]

Like I said before, I'm not opposed to moving him BUT I don't think that he sucks either. Once he get's it together, I see him being a 30+ goal scorer every year.