A Positive Wentz Article

[duke1861]

One of my closest friends is an Eagles fan. His take was just an athlete not a QB. He is not accurate at all, he will use his legs to get out of jams and makes poor reads. Of course all of this can improve, but Eagles fans well at least my friend is not ready to make him their next franchise QB. Hurts still has to prove himself this year, just like Wentz. That is why I said they are in the same boat.

Hurts might not be the next QB. That is correct and I agree with your friend.

The thing with Philly and Indy fans is that they do NOT know that Hurts or Ryan are the long-term answer. They DO know that Wentz was NOT the answer.

That is the difference. We were the only team stupid enough to call the Colts and then bid against ourselves. We will regret the move.

 

[deanpet21]

Hurts might not be the next QB. That is correct and I agree with your friend.

The thing with Philly and Indy fans is that they do NOT know that Hurts or Ryan are the long-term answer. They DO know that Wentz was NOT the answer.

That is the difference. We were the only team stupid enough to call the Colts and then bid against ourselves. We will regret the move.

My friend did bust my balls for getting him but he also said if his head is straight he has the talent to be "the guy". Yes we bid against ourselves, but what you are forgetting is that if Wentz went to FA he could of picked the team he wanted to go to and it could have been very possible he could of picked another team.

We wont regret the move if he works out. Who cares about the draft capital if he works out. We have been giving draft picks for years to get a QB1.

 

[duke1861]

My friend did bust my balls for getting him but he also said if his head is straight he has the talent to be "the guy". Yes we bid against ourselves, but what you are forgetting is that if Wentz went to FA he could of picked the team he wanted to go to and it could have been very possible he could of picked another team.

We wont regret the move if he works out. Who cares about the draft capital if he works out. We have been giving draft picks for years to get a QB1.

Why would he have not come here? You claim we are a QB away and players want to come here? Should have been a match made in heaven?

I care about the draft capital. Draft picks are valuable resources. If we bid against ourselves as you agree, then it was unnecessary to give up those draft picks at all right? Even if the move works out, we gave up too much because we did NOT need to give it up at all.

Would you feel this way if we gave up a 1st rounder? Smart teams do not give up high draft picks UNLESS it is necessary. That's the difference, Rivera got taken to school and gave up a high pick for NO reason. Rivera has no idea what he is doing. The Colts were never going to release Wentz as long as they had us as a buyer. They would have been on the hook for 15 million if they cut him. We agreed to take on all the salary, as such, we were saving them money and taking a player they despised.

However, we threw in a high-round draft pick for NO good reason. Irsay/Ballard fleeced us and you know it. This is what you have failed to see and Skinsdad and I have tried to explain. It's not WHY we got Wentz, it's HOW we got him. You can't say that if this works out that we didn't need the 2nd rounder to begin with. Again, just because Vinny or Bruce gave up draft picks for QBs doesn't mean we need to blindly give up picks just because. Two wrongs don't make a right. There was simply NO reason to give up the high draft capital to secure the trade. I am confused why you don't see that. We literally bid against ourselves!

If the trade does work out, would it have been worth it to give up a 2023 1st and 2024 1st as well? According to your logic, who cares what we give up?

That being said, two straight teams have said his head "isn't right". Because we are so inept and desperate, we are going to be the 3rd team to prove this. What a mess of a trade. You claimed poor drafting has contributed to our lack of success, yet, you don't seem to care about mindlessly throwing away draft picks. This is why we need a GM in charge, not a coach who thinks he is.

 

[deanpet21]

Why would he have not come here? You claim we are a QB away and players want to come here? Should have been a match made in heaven?

I care about the draft capital. Draft picks are valuable resources. If we bid against ourselves as you agree, then it was unnecessary to give up those draft picks at all right? Even if the move works out, we gave up too much because we did NOT need to give it up at all.

Would you feel this way if we gave up a 1st rounder? Smart teams do not give up high draft picks UNLESS it is necessary. That's the difference, Rivera got taken school and gave up a high pick for NO reason. Rivera has no idea what he is doing. The Colts were never going to release Wentz as long as they had us as a buyer. They would have been on the hook for 15 million if they cut him. We agreed to take on all the salary, as such, we were saving them money and taking a player they despised.

However, we threw in a high-round draft pick for NO good reason. Irsay/Ballard fleeced us and you know it. This is what you have failed to see and Skinsdad and I have tried to explain. It's not WHY we got Wentz, it's HOW we got him. You can't say that if this works out that we didn't need the 2nd rounder to begin with. Again, just because Vinny or Bruce gave up draft picks for QBs doesn't mean we need to blindly give up picks just because. Two wrongs don't make a right. There was simply NO reason to give up the high draft capital to secure the trade. I am confused why you don't see that. We literally bid against ourselves!

If the trade does work out, would it have been worth it to give up a 2023 1st and 2024 1st as well? According to your logic, who cares what we give up?

You never know. Maybe another team offered him more money. Right we gave up draft picks but those draft picks secured the player. Draft picks do bust, especially here you never know with the draft picks. Its a crap shoot. IF we gave up #11 for Wentz, then yes I would be pissed. You are saying we gave up high draft picks. A 3rd rounder is not a high draft pick. If it turns into a 2nd next year then that would mean Wentz would have worked out and a starting QB is certainly worth a 2nd.

3rd round pick is not a high draft pick. that is insane. I understand we bid against ourselves bur RR was so desperate for a QB , he didnt care. You dont know what would of happened in FA if we didnt make the trade,. Yes, I agree we overpaid to get him. RR and staff wanted him. No I dont care about 3rd or 2nd round picks who could possibly bust when its for a QB. Especially on this team, where we had no QB.

Its not Superbowl or bust for Wentz to stay here.

 

[skinsdad62]

Dean one minute Washington is the destination of choice Just ask Allen and Mac and the next moment Wentz wouldn’t want to come here .

And hey who needs a 3rd round pick like TMAC ? Who needs a drew Bree’s or David care ? Both 2nd rounders
And why the fuck do you bid against yourself ? That’s good business ?

 

[deanpet21]

Dean one minute Washington is the destination of choice Just ask Allen and Mac and the next moment Wentz wouldn’t want to come here .

And hey who needs a 3rd round pick like TMAC ? Who needs a drew Bree’s or David care ? Both 2nd rounders
And why the fuck do you bid against yourself ? That’s good business ?

Very possible the could of went somewhere else if he hit FA.
Yes when both Captains sign back here, its says something about this team
Draft picks bust all the time and yo know that. Trading mid round picks for a QB doesn't bother me when we are desperate to get one.
I agree we ended up bidding against ourselves. We were desperate. No its not good business but we were in such a mess at QB. Why did we trade all those picks to get RG3?

 

[duke1861]

Very possible the could of went somewhere else if he hit FA.
Yes when both Captains sign back here, its says something about this team
Draft picks bust all the time and yo know that. Trading mid round picks for a QB doesn't bother me when we are desperate to get one.
I agree we ended up bidding against ourselves. We were desperate. No its not good business but we were in such a mess at QB. Why did we trade all those picks to get RG3?

The pick will in all likelihood be a 2nd round pick in 2023. Rivera will not bench a 28-million-dollar player unless the world comes undone.

QBs are not Rivera's strength. In 12 years he has really only had 1 QB develop under his regime: Cam Newton. In other words, he is going to go with Wentz.

If that is the case, a 2nd round pick is NOT a mid-round pick at all. How that doesn't bother you simply makes ZERO sense given the fact that the pick was NEVER needed to secure the trade. Rivera got outsmarted.
You claim we bid against ourselves and overpaid, yet, you blow off the 2nd or 3rd pick. Good teams don't blow off 2nd round picks. You continue to defend Rivera whether you know it or not.

Rivera is desperate because he doesn't know what he is doing. He waited until year 3 to address the QB position long-term. That is his fault and he caused the panic and confusion. He made the decision to sign Fitzpatrick as a stop-gap in 2021. He made the decision to roll with Haskins in 2020. He was the one who swung and missed on Goff and Stafford in 2021. In other words, Rivera has made mistake after mistake in finding a QB. As previously established, there was NO need to surrender a 2nd/3rd round pick at all. A 2nd rounder might not mean much to you, but successful teams are built in the draft and high-round picks are crucial. Yes, draft picks bust, but that doesn't mean you treat them carelessly and give them away for no reason. A smart front office would have realized we were bidding against ourselves. An even wiser front office would have realized that we held the upper hand, and would have offered to take on the salary and exchange draft positions. The Colts would have HAD to take that deal or either take a 15 million cap hit for no reason. Ballard and Irsay are not that stupid.

The RG3 situation was completely different. It was widely known that the Rams were open for business. The Browns and Skins got in a bidding war and the Rams took our offer. The Rams could have simply stayed put and were under no obligation to move the pick. We needed a face for the organization and thought RG3 was a generational talent. We had to offer a king's ransom to get the Rams to give up that pick, also, we had to outbid the Browns.

Nothing in that scenario is close to the Wentz trade. The Colts had 1 call and 1 call only...us. The Colts were motivated to get a deal done due to the salary cap implications. The Rams could have stayed put and taken a number of players. We offered up all the picks to outbid the Browns.

 

[duke1861]

Dean one minute Washington is the destination of choice Just ask Allen and Mac and the next moment Wentz wouldn’t want to come here .

And hey who needs a 3rd round pick like TMAC ? Who needs a drew Bree’s or David care ? Both 2nd rounders
And why the fuck do you bid against yourself ? That’s good business ?

The conversation changes constantly and is filled with red herrings.

He stated that we bid against ourselves but then blows off the pick as no big deal. I cannot understand how any rational fan would be fine with giving away a 2nd/3rd round pick for no reason at all.

This all goes back to defending Rivera and supporting Wentz. I am lost to be honest and cannot follow the line of reasoning.

 

[skinsdad62]

The conversation changes constantly and is filled with red herrings.

He stated that we bid against ourselves but then blows off the pick as no big deal. I cannot understand how any rational fan would be fine with giving away a 2nd/3rd round pick for no reason at all.

This all goes back to defending Rivera and supporting Wentz. I am lost to be honest and cannot follow the line of reasoning.

Same here but it’s the illness of blind Homerism

 

[duke1861]

Same here but it’s the illness of blind Homerism

Maybe I overvalue 2nd round picks...LOL. A 2nd round pick is basically a top 60 player of the draft. If we were 17-0 and had no holes on the roster, with zero openings on depth, sure, go ahead and toss away a pick. Because that will literally never be the case for any NFL team ever, it makes no sense to carelessly give it away.
We of all teams need every pick...especially a 2nd/3rd rounder. We need help everywhere.

 

[Skinsfan21]

Unless he has the miracle of miracle seasons, yes, I would feel the same way.

Wentz has proven over and over again that he is not capable of continued success. It is a pattern with him. The data shows this as I am sure you know. Yes, there are random good seasons, but then the habits start over again.

Philly and Indy bear that out. If he was the QB you want him to be, why did Philly and Indy get rid of him? They are both better organizations than we are and much smarter.

Just make sure you keep this same energy when we’re in the playoffs

 

[skinsdad62]

Well maybe we should play the games anyway. We could have a decent team for this season but injuries could wipe that out

 

[deanpet21]

The pick will in all likelihood be a 2nd round pick in 2023. Rivera will not bench a 28-million-dollar player unless the world comes undone.

QBs are not Rivera's strength. In 12 years he has really only had 1 QB develop under his regime: Cam Newton. In other words, he is going to go with Wentz.

If that is the case, a 2nd round pick is NOT a mid-round pick at all. How that doesn't bother you simply makes ZERO sense given the fact that the pick was NEVER needed to secure the trade. Rivera got outsmarted.
You claim we bid against ourselves and overpaid, yet, you blow off the 2nd or 3rd pick. Good teams don't blow off 2nd round picks. You continue to defend Rivera whether you know it or not.

Rivera is desperate because he doesn't know what he is doing. He waited until year 3 to address the QB position long-term. That is his fault and he caused the panic and confusion. He made the decision to sign Fitzpatrick as a stop-gap in 2021. He made the decision to roll with Haskins in 2020. He was the one who swung and missed on Goff and Stafford in 2021. In other words, Rivera has made mistake after mistake in finding a QB. As previously established, there was NO need to surrender a 2nd/3rd round pick at all. A 2nd rounder might not mean much to you, but successful teams are built in the draft and high-round picks are crucial. Yes, draft picks bust, but that doesn't mean you treat them carelessly and give them away for no reason. A smart front office would have realized we were bidding against ourselves. An even wiser front office would have realized that we held the upper hand, and would have offered to take on the salary and exchange draft positions. The Colts would have HAD to take that deal or either take a 15 million cap hit for no reason. Ballard and Irsay are not that stupid.

The RG3 situation was completely different. It was widely known that the Rams were open for business. The Browns and Skins got in a bidding war and the Rams took our offer. The Rams could have simply stayed put and were under no obligation to move the pick. We needed a face for the organization and thought RG3 was a generational talent. We had to offer a king's ransom to get the Rams to give up that pick, also, we had to outbid the Browns.

Nothing in that scenario is close to the Wentz trade. The Colts had 1 call and 1 call only...us. The Colts were motivated to get a deal done due to the salary cap implications. The Rams could have stayed put and taken a number of players. We offered up all the picks to outbid the Browns.

Actually the Browns outbid us for RG3 but Jeff Fisher took our offer. I already said we overpaid. No one is doubting that. There is no doubt we were desperate for a QB, so the organization was going to let a 2nd round pick be in the way to land there QB. Bash RR all you want, He came into a bad QB situation and tried to upgrade the position in the last 2 years. Yet, his two team captains decided to stay with him and sign back here. So he must be doing something right. You can pout all you want about the draft capital, but if Wentz works out, it would be an after thought. If Wentz falls on his face then yes RR seat will get hot. They go there guy, now lets see if it works out.

 

[deanpet21]

The conversation changes constantly and is filled with red herrings.

He stated that we bid against ourselves but then blows off the pick as no big deal. I cannot understand how any rational fan would be fine with giving away a 2nd/3rd round pick for no reason at all.

This all goes back to defending Rivera and supporting Wentz. I am lost to be honest and cannot follow the line of reasoning.

b/c you dont understand when teams are desperate for a QB they will do anything to land him. You don't get that and you let a 2nd round pick sway you away from getting the player you want. You couldn't granuttee we would of gotten Wentz in Fa if he hit the market. Just like you couldnt guarntte that a FA like Bridgewater or Trib would of signed here in FA.

Did the Broncos or Rams care about draft capital when landing their QB's? No! Sure they have better all around teams but they did whatever they had to do to get their QB. You dont understand this. We overpaid in the RG3 trade b/c Rex Grossman was the QB. We overpaid on the Wentz trade b/c TH was the current QB. Teams do this all the time to land their desired QB. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn.t. RR has been aggressive in try to get us a QB in the last two years. You cant deny that.

 

[deanpet21]

Plus Sam Darnold last year got traded to the Panthers for a 2nd, 4th, and 6th round picks Why? He was going to be there starting QB

 

[duke1861]

Actually the Browns outbid us for RG3 but Jeff Fisher took our offer. I already said we overpaid. No one is doubting that. There is no doubt we were desperate for a QB, so the organization was going to let a 2nd round pick be in the way to land there QB. Bash RR all you want, He came into a bad QB situation and tried to upgrade the position in the last 2 years. Yet, his two team captains decided to stay with him and sign back here. So he must be doing something right. You can pout all you want about the draft capital, but if Wentz works out, it would be an after thought. If Wentz falls on his face then yes RR seat will get hot. They go there guy, now lets see if it works out.

And who caused that desperation Dean? Was it Rivera, Kyle Smith, Mayhew, Gruden?

Rivera did come into a bad situation, but he made it worse by not addressing it until year 3. They "tried" to address it in 2021 but they didn't.

I disagree with you on a 2nd round pick being thrown away as an "afterthought". A 2nd round pick is a valuable commodity.

The fact that we called every NFL team to get a QB and then settled on Wentz should be alarming to all of us. Wentz is a bust who had two teams get rid of him. The Colts could only tolerate 1 year of him. What does that tell you?

 

[deanpet21]

And who caused that desperation Dean? Was it Rivera, Kyle Smith, Mayhew, Gruden?

Rivera did come into a bad situation, but he made it worse by not addressing it until year 3. They "tried" to address it in 2021 but they didn't.

I disagree with you on a 2nd round pick being thrown away as an "afterthought". A 2nd round pick is a valuable commodity.

The fact that we called every NFL team to get a QB and then settled on Wentz should be alarming to all of us. Wentz is a bust who had two teams get rid of him. The Colts could only tolerate 1 year of him. What does that tell you?

It tells me that they blame him for the collapse of last year. He puts up his Indys numbers last year over here we will win,.

 

[duke1861]

b/c you dont understand when teams are desperate for a QB they will do anything to land him. You don't get that and you let a 2nd round pick sway you away from getting the player you want. You couldn't granuttee we would of gotten Wentz in Fa if he hit the market. Just like you couldnt guarntte that a FA like Bridgewater or Trib would of signed here in FA.

Did the Broncos or Rams care about draft capital when landing their QB's? No! Sure they have better all around teams but they did whatever they had to do to get their QB. You dont understand this. We overpaid in the RG3 trade b/c Rex Grossman was the QB. We overpaid on the Wentz trade b/c TH was the current QB. Teams do this all the time to land their desired QB. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn.t. RR has been aggressive in try to get us a QB in the last two years. You cant deny that.

That is not true. I understand the situation more than you do. I understand we were desperate but I also understand that you keep your wits about you and that good GMs/front offices maintain poker faces.

You don't understand how basic economics works. It's called "supply and demand".

In your Darnold example, 8 teams wanted Darnold and were in discussions with the Jets. There was a demand for him. That demand led to competition for acquiring Darnold. The demand and competition for Darnold led to the price for the trade being inflated. Yes, the Panthers needed a starting QB, but the demand for the trade drove the trade price...not just the desperation of the Panthers. If the Panthers called the Jets and they were the only buyer, the price would have been much less. The Jets were in negotiations with 7 other teams, as such, they allowed the market to dictate the price for the trade. Obviously, all 8 teams had packages for the Jets to consider. The Panthers wanted him, as such, they had to create a package that would be more enticing to the Jets and beat out their competition. The Panthers desire for Darnold was greater than the competition, as such, they offered up more compensation to secure his services. The bottom line is that the trade package was mostly determined by the demand for Darnold, not the panic of the Panthers.

With Wentz, the opposite was true. There was no real supply and demand per se. As soon as we called the Colts, an offer was going to get done. We were the only call they got. Because we had already called every team in the league, the Colts knew we were desperate and they were going to take advantage of it. Common sense should have told Rivera that the Colts were not simply going to cut Wentz and be on the hook for 15 million in dead cap. Common sense should have told Rivera that we had the upper hand. Common sense should have told Rivera that the Colts were in a bad spot as they wanted to get rid of Wentz and leaked it out. Common sense should have told Rivera that taking on the salary and giving a low-round conditional pick would have secured the deal. None of that occurred.

The fact is that the Colts fleeced us in the deal. You can't blame desperation for Rivera throwing in a 2nd/3rd rounder for NO reason. The deal would have gotten done without the 2nd/3rd rounder. You are not understanding that. You can't say that we got the guy we wanted so who cares about the draft pick. It was unnecessary and showed the NFL how inept our front office is. We need those picks to build our team and address the holes we have. In the end, there was no demand for Wentz outside of us. That should tell you that the NFL is done with him. We are the only team that believes he has something to offer. Furthermore, the lack of demand should have led to a fair trade for both sides. Instead, it was one-sided. Compare the Mayfield and Wentz trades...its not even close.

8 NFL Teams Reportedly Interested In Sam Darnold Trade

There have already been a couple of big-time quarterbacks traded this offseason and more moves are expected to be on the way. According to NFL insider Albert

thespun.com

 

[duke1861]

It tells me that they blame him for the collapse of last year. He puts up his Indys numbers last year over here we will win,.

But if he put up good numbers, why was there a collapse? Perhaps the numbers are inflated the Reich knew that. You cannot blame the defense...it was top 10.

Let us be honest, Wentz will NOT have 2 things here that will deflate his numbers:

1. Elite play-caller in Reich.
2. Best ground game in the NFL.

Colts fans/apologists were already nervous and questioning Wentz after 8 weeks. I find it odd that you dismiss the opinions and proof that Colts fans/pundits provided. I believe your "loyalty" to the coaches and Wentz prevents you from thinking objectively. Please see McAfee's quote.

You also fail to acknowledge that Indy had the #10 overall defense and we had the #25 ranked defense. You purposely neglect that because it does not fit your agenda. We were ranked dead last in passing TDs and 29th in passing yards. Rivera's fix was to keep our secondary coach, bring back McCain and then draft a 4th rounder to fix it???

Colts: Pat McAfee’s rant on Carson Wentz is hilariously spot-on

Former Indianapolis Colts punter Pat McAfee unleashed a rant on Carson Wentz that hilariously summed up his maddening style of play.

horseshoeheroes.com

McAfee said:

"All right, I got no problem going in there for the Indianapolis Colts and I think anytime you think about the Carson Wentz experience at the Indianapolis Colts... you have to put it in a couple different categories. For instance, when he [Wentz] was playing good football, it is great. I mean, it is electrifying. It is fantastic. But he is the most reckless quarterback I've ever seen in my entire life with the football. The ball is the program. I didn't grow up in the football culture. I got dropped and baptized in West Virginia when I was there. But literally day one through the day that I retired, the only thing that coaches and programs and organizations talked about was protecting the football. And although his stats say he threw 27 touchdowns and only 7 interceptions, there was 4 interceptions dropped by the Niners that was just in one game.”

 

[deanpet21]

That is not true. I understand the situation more than you do. I understand we were desperate but I also understand that you keep your wits about you and that good GMs/front offices maintain poker faces.

You don't understand how basic economics works. It's called "supply and demand".

In your Darnold example, 8 teams wanted Darnold and were in discussions with the Jets. There was a demand for him. That demand led to competition for acquiring Darnold. The demand and competition for Darnold led to the price for the trade being inflated. Yes, the Panthers needed a starting QB, but the demand for the trade drove the trade price...not just the desperation of the Panthers. If the Panthers called the Jets and they were the only buyer, the price would have been much less. The Jets were in negotiations with 7 other teams, as such, they allowed the market to dictate the price for the trade. Obviously, all 8 teams had packages for the Jets to consider. The Panthers wanted him, as such, they had to create a package that would be more enticing to the Jets and beat out their competition. The Panthers desire for Darnold was greater than the competition, as such, they offered up more compensation to secure his services. The bottom line is that the trade package was mostly determined by the demand for Darnold, not the panic of the Panthers.

With Wentz, the opposite was true. There was no real supply and demand per se. As soon as we called the Colts, an offer was going to get done. We were the only call they got. Because we had already called every team in the league, the Colts knew we were desperate and they were going to take advantage of it. Common sense should have told Rivera that the Colts were not simply going to cut Wentz and be on the hook for 15 million in dead cap. Common sense should have told Rivera that we had the upper hand. Common sense should have told Rivera that the Colts were in a bad spot as they wanted to get rid of Wentz and leaked it out. Common sense should have told Rivera that taking on the salary and giving a low-round conditional pick would have secured the deal. None of that occurred.

The fact is that the Colts fleeced us in the deal. You can't blame desperation for Rivera throwing in a 2nd/3rd rounder for NO reason. The deal would have gotten done without the 2nd/3rd rounder. You are not understanding that. You can't say that we got the guy we wanted so who cares about the draft pick. It was unnecessary and showed the NFL how inept our front office is. We need those picks to build our team and address the holes we have. In the end, there was no demand for Wentz outside of us. That should tell you that the NFL is done with him. We are the only team that believes he has something to offer. Furthermore, the lack of demand should have led to a fair trade for both sides. Instead, it was one-sided. Compare the Mayfield and Wentz trades...its not even close.

8 NFL Teams Reportedly Interested In Sam Darnold Trade

There have already been a couple of big-time quarterbacks traded this offseason and more moves are expected to be on the way. According to NFL insider Albert

thespun.com

You are playing Monday Morning QB here as always. RR did not know other teams weren't involved at the time of the trade. An Matt Ryan was still on ATL at that time. At the time Wentz was the best option b/c the team wanted him RR and Scott Turner. Plus you dont know the trade offers the Jets received for Darnold.