Is Baker Mayfield a Bust?

[wilwhite]

Butchered it by going after a top tier QB many others wanted? I mean, just because we haven't heard it on IG doesn't mean Baker and the FO have not had the conversations you suggest they'd need to have.

Butchered it by not being up front with Mayfield. Just keep him in the loop so he doesn't find out via social media that you went off and visited Watson. And don't call him a child.

You say, "We like you and we believe in you. Maybe you'll be a top-5 QB soon, but we can't know that right now, and there's one on the market. We can't pass up that chance. If it happens we'll try to move you to the best possible place, and if it doesn't we want hope you can prove that you can be a top-5 QB right now, because that's what we really want." And then you keep him up to date so there are no surprises.

 

[dtgold88]

Butchered it by not being up front with Mayfield. Just keep him in the loop so he doesn't find out via social media that you went off and visited Watson. And don't call him a child.

You say, "We like you and we believe in you. Maybe you'll be a top-5 QB soon, but we can't know that right now, and there's one on the market. We can't pass up that chance. If it happens we'll try to move you to the best possible place, and if it doesn't we want hope you can prove that you can be a top-5 QB right now, because that's what we really want." And then you keep him up to date so there are no surprises.

They were up front with Baker. Told him right after the season he's their guy BUT if they could get a top tier QB they'd make the effort to do so. Not like it was a secret they were looking into Watson.

 

[wilwhite]

Also Mayfield would have little to no impact with the Seahawks because he just a bridge QB at best and will end up being another journeyman QB. Book that.

Bridge to what, though? I don't think Carroll wants to wait for a 2023 QB to bloom. If Carroll gets Mayfield, he'll probably ride high with him for a couple of years or fade away quickly with him.

If by "another journeyman" you mean a backup/interim QB for the rest of his career, maybe. If he doesn't have a solid year this year you might be right. If you mean somebody like Tannehill who somehow managed to have a long career as an average NFL starter, absolutely. Nobody expects Mayfield to be more than a nice piece on an otherwise solid team.

 

[wilwhite]

They were up front with Baker. Told him right after the season he's their guy BUT if they could get a top tier QB they'd make the effort to do so. Not like it was a secret they were looking into Watson.

They could have kept him in the loop better and not belittled him. There's really no reason for that.

 

[Cincyfan78]

They could have kept him in the loop better and not belittled him. There's really no reason for that.

And sometimes it's not about what you say, but what you don't say.

When it was obvious Watson was being traded - and some of those stories and things about Baker got out in the media about what some players thought - no one really stood up for him within the organization, as I recall....could be wrong, though.

 

[dtgold88]

They could have kept him in the loop better and not belittled him. There's really no reason for that.

We pretty much as fans were in the loop. Guessing he or his agent knew.

I don't buy the comment about an adult was about him (if that's what you are talking about). Hard to believe this FO would make a comment like that about a guy currently on the team AND one they want to trade. Had Dorsey been the GM? OK...I could believe it.

No one has ever been able to say who made the comment and why it was made. Thinking just as likely they were asked if they'd go with a rookie and that was the answer.

 

[dtgold88]

And sometimes it's not about what you say, but what you don't say.

When it was obvious Watson was being traded - and some of those stories and things about Baker got out in the media about what some players thought - no one really stood up for him within the organization, as I recall....could be wrong, though.

I've heard at least a handful of players who said they are good friends and still talk to him. As one of them said (believe it was Higgins) they can talk without putting it on social media.

In addition, couldn't a public comment for baker also be considered a comment against Watson?

 

[Cincyfan78]

We pretty much as fans were in the loop. Guessing he or his agent knew.

I don't buy the comment about an adult was about him (if that's what you are talking about). Hard to believe this FO would make a comment like that about a guy currently on the team AND one they want to trade. Had Dorsey been the GM? OK...I could believe it.

No one has ever been able to say who made the comment and why it was made. Thinking just as likely they were asked if they'd go with a rookie and that was the answer.

They could have been fully up front, and I think feelings and the relationship would still be where it's at right now - fractured.

I mean, I'll keep using the girlfriend analogy - You can't tell your girlfriend you like her, but want someone hotter/better, but still don't want to break up in case you can't land someone hotter/better...that relationship going forward is always going to be dysfunctional, because she's never going to think she has your full support.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I've heard at least a handful of players who said they are good friends and still talk to him. As one of them said (believe it was Higgins) they can talk without putting it on social media.

In addition, couldn't a public comment for baker also be considered a comment against Watson?

Fair

No, I don't think so. I mean it "Could", but saying things like "Baker was a good teammate" or "Baker really grew into more of a leader under XXX circumstance" isn't really taking any shots to Watson - but just trying to keep things neutral/favorable towards Baker.

 

[dtgold88]

They could have been fully up front, and I think feelings and the relationship would still be where it's at right now - fractured.

I mean, I'll keep using the girlfriend analogy - You can't tell your girlfriend you like her, but want someone hotter/better, but still don't want to break up in case you can't land someone hotter/better...that relationship going forward is always going to be dysfunctional, because she's never going to think she has your full support.

That's pretty much sports. You are not dong your job in the FO if you let feelings dictate whether you upgrade a position....any position. I mean, should they keep him in the loop or not? sounds like if they told him nothing and sprung it on him you'd rip them for that, too.

 

[dtgold88]

Fair

No, I don't think so. I mean it "Could", but saying things like "Baker was a good teammate" or "Baker really grew into more of a leader under XXX circumstance" isn't really taking any shots to Watson - but just trying to keep things neutral/favorable towards Baker.

Everyone I've heard who was asked about Baker did say things like that in addition to saying they believe he'll succeed wherever he is. Garrett might have been the exception. Not too terrible but I don't think he liked the guy all that much.

 

[Cincyfan78]

That's pretty much sports. You are not dong your job in the FO if you let feelings dictate whether you upgrade a position....any position. I mean, should they keep him in the loop or not? sounds like if they told him nothing and sprung it on him you'd rip them for that, too.

It is - and why you see the holdouts and forced trades when things like this happen, and the player/FO can't seems to reconcile. As a FO guy, if you are going to move like that, you need to be ready to move on from the previous position player. This situation is more unique because of Watson's suspension, and likely length of suspension which was not fully factored in (Probably originally thinking 6 games, not a full season+).

I do think they probably didn't let on just how serious they were about Watson, though, because 100% contract guarantee was unprecedented - and shocked many owners in the NFL - most who are rather unhappy that someone opened that "Pandora's Box" long before it was likely to be done...but that's another discussion for another day.

 

[dtgold88]

It is - and why you see the holdouts and forced trades when things like this happen, and the player/FO can't seems to reconcile. As a FO guy, if you are going to move like that, you need to be ready to move on from the previous position player. This situation is more unique because of Watson's suspension, and likely length of suspension which was not fully factored in (Probably originally thinking 6 games, not a full season+).

I do think they probably didn't let on just how serious they were about Watson, though, because 100% contract guarantee was unprecedented - and shocked many owners in the NFL - most who are rather unhappy that someone opened that "Pandora's Box" long before it was likely to be done...but that's another discussion for another day.

I mean, you kind of explained why it happened differently here as usually when you move on you aren't getting a guy who cannot play (assuming he cannot). I agree Browns probably thought 6-8 games....and still might be that amount.

contract was not expected, but pretty sure they knew we were serious as not even allowed to talk to Watson without a deal Houston would accept.

 

[Wamu]

you also got to remember, he played on a team with 2 #1 RBs. You cant hand the ball enough to satisfy both of these guys.
Seattles RBs are a revolving door.
Think his cmp pct would be in the low mid 60's. 63,s to 64,s pct. range.

Damn good point about the Browns running game. I obviously didn't think about that when I made that comment. My opinion has changed. Thanks for mentioning it.

 

[Wamu]

He never had 17 games. He would almost certainly have hit 4K in 2018 and 2019 with 17 games - just needed 75 yds for the other three starts in 2018 and 175 in the last start in 2019.

He'd also have hit 30 TDs with just one per extra game in 2018, and had 29 in 17 games in 2020 if you count the first playoff game.

I'm expecting him to be a bit more driven and focused, and a shade more mature. And healthier than last year's debacle (playing hurt isn't leadership if you're not effective, it's just dumb).

Even if you include his injured year he averaged 235.4 yards and 1.56 TDs a game which gives almost exactly 4K yards in 17 games, and 26.5 TDs. That's just an average season for him if he starts every game.

If teams were hesitating on Mayfield, maybe it's because he's inconsistent, might not be fully recovered, and the Browns have no leverage and few suitors.

Three teams could really use him this year: Seattle, Carolina and the Browns.

See comment # 1194.

And I agree with what you said.

 

[wilwhite]

They could have been fully up front, and I think feelings and the relationship would still be where it's at right now - fractured.

I mean, I'll keep using the girlfriend analogy - You can't tell your girlfriend you like her, but want someone hotter/better, but still don't want to break up in case you can't land someone hotter/better...that relationship going forward is always going to be dysfunctional, because she's never going to think she has your full support.

Are you paying her $18 million?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Are you paying her $18 million?

 

[Manster7588]

Are you paying her $18 million?

If she get $18 million regardless, what does it matter.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Bridge to what, though? I don't think Carroll wants to wait for a 2023 QB to bloom. If Carroll gets Mayfield, he'll probably ride high with him for a couple of years or fade away quickly with him.

If by "another journeyman" you mean a backup/interim QB for the rest of his career, maybe. If he doesn't have a solid year this year you might be right. If you mean somebody like Tannehill who somehow managed to have a long career as an average NFL starter, absolutely. Nobody expects Mayfield to be more than a nice piece on an otherwise solid team.

Bridge QB for maybe the Panthers. Hasn't been any communication from Seahawks with the Browns other then a initial call way back when it was known the Browns had a new QB as far as I have heard.

 

[dtgold88]

Bridge QB for maybe the Panthers. Hasn't been any communication from Seahawks with the Browns other then a initial call way back when it was known the Browns had a new QB as far as I have heard.

Are they calling to make sure to keep you up with their discussions?

I kid....I kid. sort of.

All seriousness, you both have good points. I've always agreed with you Seattle might be better off just tanking and that they could do with their current QBs.