NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[thunderc]

Chubb DEFINITELY doesnt beg out.....thats all on the coaching staff. Chubb would play every single play if he could.

but you have Kareem Hunt- who is very very good backing him up. DeErnest Johnson is also a very good backup. And they all have different skill sets.

Those 2 guys are 1a and 1a

 

[tlance]

its nice to see that after not too long ago saying the Cavs should deal guys for assets and were on a road to mediocrity that the problem is now TOO MANY guys getting big contracts.

The Cavs have done a great job drafting despite getting unlucky in the lotto the last few years.

Which, wait for it….

Puts them on the road to mediocrity unless Garland or Mobley is a future superstar.

Maybe mediocre isn’t the right word because they can be pretty good. But the ultimate ceiling depends on one of these guys elevating higher than expected.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I was stuck watching that game this weekend and was wondering aloud why they weren't running the ball more. However, it seemed every time that Chubb touched the ball 3 times consecutively, he was calling to the sideline for a replacement.

Sure, Johnson contributed, that wasn't my point or a jab at Johnson. Subbing with Johnson for every passing down telegraphs those passes.

I agree-

the play calling has been suspect. They should ride chubb harder.

One of the sports writers has a terrible acronym YCNHTMC

You Can Never Have Too Much Chubb.

 

[dtgold88]

I was stuck watching that game this weekend and was wondering aloud why they weren't running the ball more. However, it seemed every time that Chubb touched the ball 3 times consecutively, he was calling to the sideline for a replacement.

Sure, Johnson contributed, that wasn't my point or a jab at Johnson. Subbing with Johnson for every passing down telegraphs those passes.

No issue with that, but cannot say I'm a fan of the many empty backfields which really does make it so the other team knows you'll throw.

 

[dtgold88]

Which, wait for it….

Puts them on the road to mediocrity unless Garland or Mobley is a future superstar.

Maybe mediocre isn’t the right word because they can be pretty good. But the ultimate ceiling depends on one of these guys elevating higher than expected.

Pretty sure we all knew that and why Cavs fans were so annoyed they had such awful luck in the lottery but does seem like....wait fir it.....they did finally have some luck and Mobley very well might be a superstar (and Garland could certainly be an all star, maybe even Allen).

 

[tlance]

Pretty sure we all knew that and why Cavs fans were so annoyed they had such awful luck in the lottery but does seem like....wait fir it.....they did finally have some luck and Mobley very well might be a superstar (and Garland could certainly be an all star, maybe even Allen).

Might be.

Still not something I am betting on.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Might be.

Still not something I am betting on.

not betting on what? Mobley and/or Garland becoming high level players?

I just saw on TheAthletic where- when a ton of different NBA players were asked who they thought would be the best player in the league in 5 years- that Mobley was like 8th on the list.

in an article published today on The Athletic- this is what their draft expert, Sam Vecenie, said about Mobley:

"You can count the number of people who are this tall, this athletic, this mobile, this ambidextrous and this coordinated in terms of both footwork and hand-eye on one hand.

Right now, there is a case that group is basically Mobley, Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis and Giannis Antetokounmpo. Mobley is nowhere near as skilled as those guys yet in terms of basketball, but those are tools you’re talking about."

"Like, I’ve been doing this job professionally for about eight years now, and I’ve never seen a rookie that is as good as Mobley is on the defensive end. "

 

[tlance]

not betting on what? Mobley and/or Garland becoming high level players?

I just saw on TheAthletic where- when a ton of different NBA players were asked who they thought would be the best player in the league in 5 years- that Mobley was like 8th on the list.

in an article published today on The Athletic- this is what their draft expert, Sam Vecenie, said about Mobley:

"You can count the number of people who are this tall, this athletic, this mobile, this ambidextrous and this coordinated in terms of both footwork and hand-eye on one hand.

Right now, there is a case that group is basically Mobley, Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis and Giannis Antetokounmpo. Mobley is nowhere near as skilled as those guys yet in terms of basketball, but those are tools you’re talking about."

"Like, I’ve been doing this job professionally for about eight years now, and I’ve never seen a rookie that is as good as Mobley is on the defensive end. "

Not betting on them becoming high enough level players for Cleveland to win a title.

That is what we are talking about here.

I have said multiple times I think Mobley has superstar ceiling. Clearly I think he is very good.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not betting on them becoming high enough level players for Cleveland to win a title.

That is what we are talking about here.

I have said multiple times I think Mobley has superstar ceiling. Clearly I think he is very good.

I think that is both (i.) a crazy thing to say, and (ii.) a ridiculous thing to grade them on.

The Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, etc. etc. etc. have all had great teams with multiple high level all stars or hall of famers and never won a title with them because of either bad luck, playing bad at the wrong time, or coming up against a juggernaut.

If Milwaukee, and Dallas can win titles with the teams they had, you absolutely cannot shut down the possibility.

that- and its going to look a lot better than the VAST majority of teams out there.

and most importantly- it is going to at least GIVE THEM A CHANCE. Which, because of bad management, many teams, like your Wiz for example, will not have.

at this point thats all you can ask for- is good management, making good decisions, and giving the team a chance- and that is what the Cavs are- and what so many teams in the NBA lack.

if you are looking at young cores - the Cavs might have the best in the NBA right now. Itll be interesting to see if good coaching, good management, and Dan G's big fat wallet will make it enough.

I can say with all confidence- in the next 6-8 years of the NBA- there are not a lot of teams I would give better odds- other than teams in the immediate future that are already contenders i.e. Nets, Suns, Bucks, Nets.

 

[tlance]

I think that is both (i.) a crazy thing to say, and (ii.) a ridiculous thing to grade them on.

The Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, etc. etc. etc. have all had great teams with multiple high level all stars or hall of famers and never won a title with them because of either bad luck, playing bad at the wrong time, or coming up against a juggernaut.

If Milwaukee, and Dallas can win titles with the teams they had, you absolutely cannot shut down the possibility.

that- and its going to look a lot better than the VAST majority of teams out there.

and most importantly- it is going to at least GIVE THEM A CHANCE. Which, because of bad management, many teams, like your Wiz for example, will not have.

at this point thats all you can ask for- is good management, making good decisions, and giving the team a chance- and that is what the Cavs are- and what so many teams in the NBA lack.

if you are looking at young cores - the Cavs might have the best in the NBA right now. Itll be interesting to see if good coaching, good management, and Dan G's big fat wallet will make it enough.

Time will tell if they can contend.

And I didn’t shut down the possibility. All I said is I am betting against it. Because I will always bet against every tier 3 market team to win a title.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Time will tell if they can contend.

And I didn’t shut down the possibility. All I said is I am betting against it. Because I will always bet against every tier 3 market team to win a title.

I'd give the Cavs a LOT better chance than a "tier 1 market" like the Knicks. For some reason you have that in your head as a much bigger factor in the modern NBA then it is. I dont know if its a refusal to live in the present, or a nostalgia for the past, or what.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think he's towards the bottom of that second group though. They have the run game with depth, the o-line, and a pretty good defense and are a .500 team. Sure they have injuries, and but so do most teams (as well as protocol issues). He's making too many bad decisions with the ball (or just being far too inaccurate). If it's due to injury, they need to end the "hero ball" crap and play the next man up. They could've won yesterday without those costly INTs (as the announcers kept going back to ad nauseum as if we weren't paying attention lol).

Like Aikman pointed out yesterday, that shoulder harness is likely effecting his ability to throw the ball. Assuming it's the injuries then it's on the team for continuing to play him or on their OC for calling plays that his injury won't allow him to make. If that's the case, then he likely isn't in the lower part of the 2nd group. At least not as far as his talent.

 

[tlance]

I'd give the Cavs a LOT better chance than a "tier 1 market" like the Knicks. For some reason you have that in your head as a much bigger factor in the modern NBA then it is. I dont know if its a refusal to live in the present, or a nostalgia for the past, or what.

I don’t actually.

Obviously the Knicks aren’t winning any time soon.

But aside from Giannis, almost every star that has gone through a tier 3 market has left at the first opportunity.

That is what I am basing my bet on. You have about 6 years in Cleveland to become an annual contender. The clock is ticking.

 

[bksballer89]

When is the last time they beat a team worth a damn?

Doesn't look like i got any response on this lol. Correct answer is week 6 vs new england

 

[WiggyRuss]

I don’t actually.

Obviously the Knicks aren’t winning any time soon.

But aside from Giannis, almost every star that has gone through a tier 3 market has left at the first opportunity.

That is what I am basing my bet on. You have about 6 years in Cleveland to become an annual contender. The clock is ticking.

A. LeBron didnt leave at hte first opportunity

B. Dirk didnt leave at the first opportunity

C. Durant didnt leave at the first opportunity

D. Kyrie didnt leave at the first opportunity

E. Davis didnt leave at the first opportunity

F. Kawhi didnt leave at the first opportunity

basically no one leaves at the first opportunity. Maybe by their THIRD contract. But that is usually 7-8 years- which is only be extended by the new built in advantages of the hometown super max

if you really think that the Knicks have a better chance to win a title before the Cavs you are hopeless. You must really think management means less than market - which is insanity in the modern NBA.

 

[dtgold88]

Not betting on them becoming high enough level players for Cleveland to win a title.

That is what we are talking about here.

I have said multiple times I think Mobley has superstar ceiling. Clearly I think he is very good.

I mean, they look to be making a huge jump in his rookie season but, what, we will regress as he gets better (and other incredibly young guys also maybe improve)?

But it's title or bust for us? Not even being a contender would be enough?

 

[dtgold88]

Time will tell if they can contend.

And I didn’t shut down the possibility. All I said is I am betting against it. Because I will always bet against every tier 3 market team to win a title.

I mean, I'll bet against every team not winning a title and I'd be right a lot.

 

[dtgold88]

I don’t actually.

Obviously the Knicks aren’t winning any time soon.

But aside from Giannis, almost every star that has gone through a tier 3 market has left at the first opportunity.

That is what I am basing my bet on. You have about 6 years in Cleveland to become an annual contender. The clock is ticking.

who left at the first opportunity?

 

[tlance]

A. LeBron didnt leave at hte first opportunity

B. Dirk didnt leave at the first opportunity

C. Durant didnt leave at the first opportunity

D. Kyrie didnt leave at the first opportunity

E. Davis didnt leave at the first opportunity

F. Kawhi didnt leave at the first opportunity

basically no one leaves at the first opportunity. Maybe by their THIRD contract. But that is usually 7-8 years- which is only be extended by the new built in advantages of the hometown super max

if you really think that the Knicks have a better chance to win a title before the Cavs you are hopeless. You must really think management means less than market - which is insanity in the modern NBA.

That is what I am talking about.

The first real opportunity to leave is after 8 years.

RFA is not an opportunity to leave for a max level player.

And you know this.

 

[tlance]

who left at the first opportunity?

All of the guys Wiggy just said didn’t leave at the first opportunity.

Unrestricted free agency is the first opportunity to leave.

Accepting a qualifying offer just doesn’t happen.

That buys the small market team a decent window to get things done, but it usually isn’t enough.