2019 NBA Playoffs thread

[trojanfan12]

Thankfully I've lived in Washington, Texas and Florida.....all of which don't have state taxes.

Never paid a dime in state taxes. Winning.

Yeah, I lived in Florida for about 3 years. No state tax was awesome.

 

[shopson67]

Because talent doesn't always equate to team success. The original discussion was are the Celtics talented? Yes they are. It just so happens that Kyrie's the rare case where you add an all-star to the mix, it makes other players around him worst.

One example, in 2011 Miami had the more talented roster than that of the Mavericks. However, the Mavs were a better team and thus won the title.

How can the Celtics be more talented with essentially the same roster both years? If we're not talking about team success, then it doesn't matter that players missed time to injury either. The Celtics won more games two years ago led by IT4 (before Kyrie, Hayward, and Tatum were Celtics) than they did with Hayward and Kyrie back this year.

Besides, the argument was intended to determine how tough the path to the finals was from year to year. If the team performed worse (even if more talented), then they were an easier opponent than before, your semantics notwithstanding.

 

[shopson67]

Way to take a joke seriously.

Thought the would have been a dead giveaway.

It's always a joke here, just adding some facts. It was a bad joke anyway.

 

[shopson67]

Yeah, I lived in Florida for about 3 years. No state tax was awesome.

Yeah, but you had to live in Florida. There's a reason for that lol.

 

[Heatles84]

How can the Celtics be more talented with essentially the same roster both years? If we're not talking about team success, then it doesn't matter that players missed time to injury either. The Celtics won more games two years ago led by IT4 (before Kyrie, Hayward, and Tatum were Celtics) than they did with Hayward and Kyrie back this year.

Besides, the argument was intended to determine how tough the path to the finals was from year to year. If the team performed worse (even if more talented), then they were an easier opponent than before, your semantics notwithstanding.

And the Celtics last year without Kyrie and Heyward were 1 win away from the Finals.

Again, just having talent doesn't always equate to team success; I literally provided an example in 2011 where one team was more talented than the other, but better team chemistry won out.

There is a distinction between talent and team success. Kyrie Irving is a very talented player, but he doesn't make his team better, and often times actually doesn't allow others to play to their full potential when on the court.

 

[buckalis]

The fuck are you talking about?

Did you not pay attention where the $13 mil tied up by Middleton is a player option. Best believe that he's going to opt out and get a bigger pay day. Teams aren't lining up to take Snell's contract either. You can't just dump his contract onto another team. And George Hill's contract only takes up $1 mil of your cap space so long as he's waived before July 2nd. If he's not waived, he'll account for $18 mil. And again, if you math it right, you're still not going to have enough to add a top tier FA.

What the fuck are YOU talking about? Hill will resign for 4-6M for next season which brings the guaranteed salaries down to about 91M and resigning Middleton for 5/110M will mean that it will only add 6M to the books over his option for next season...

It means that Bucks will have more than 33M + Snell available for trade (maybe Ilyasova too) as to extend Lopez and Brogdon (20M salaries estimation - 5.5M currently in the books = about 14.5M to add in the books) which then leaves only Mirotic to be resigned (for his current salary) and then there will still be some 6M + Snell (+ possibly Ilyasova too) + all the current roster available to be used in trades (including Middleton, Brogdon, Lopez, Hill and Mirotic other than the young assets) after Dec the 15th...

Plenty to add a No2 behind Giannis...

Let alone that the F.O. has no objection to temporarily pay some lux tax for this season if it is necessary as to win the title.

 

[Heatles84]

What the fuck are YOU talking about? Hill will resign for 4-6M for next season which brings the guaranteed salaries down to about 91M and resigning Middleton for 5/110M will mean that it will only add 6M to the books over his option for next season...

It means that Bucks will have more than 33M + Snell available for trade (maybe Ilyasova too) as to extend Lopez and Brogdon (20M salaries estimation - 5.5M currently in the books = about 14.5M to add in the books) which then leaves only Mirotic to be resigned (for his current salary) and then there will still be some 6M + Snell (+ possibly Ilyasova too) + all the current roster available to be used in trades (including Middleton, Brogdon, Lopez, Hill and Mirotic other than the young assets) after Dec the 15th...

Plenty to add a No2 behind Giannis...

Let alone that the F.O. has no objection to temporarily pay some lux tax for this season if it is necessary as to win the title.

You do realize that there are cap holds on Lopez and Brogdon. They'd have to be signed by other teams first before that comes off the books. A top tier FA is going to command $30 mil per year. The NBA cap is set at $132mil. You can't go over the cap to sign free agents.

Report: NBA sets salary cap for 2019-20, 2020-21 seasons

But I'll digress on this debate. I'll let reality hit you in a little over a month when the Bucks don't go out and sign a top tier FA and your fantasy land dream doesn't come to fruition. Because reality is often something people have difficulty in accepting.

 

[buckalis]

You do realize that there are cap holds on Lopez and Brogdon. They'd have to be signed by other teams first before that comes off the books. A top tier FA is going to command $30 mil per year. The NBA cap is set at $132mil. You can't go over the cap to sign free agents.

Report: NBA sets salary cap for 2019-20, 2020-21 seasons

But I'll digress on this debate. I'll let reality hit you in a little over a month when the Bucks don't go out and sign a top tier FA and your fantasy land dream doesn't come to fruition. Because reality is often something people have difficulty in accepting.

You haven't read my earlier posts, ...have you?

There are multiple ways to sign a free agent and never go above the 132M tax line...
1. Is to let Middleton and Hill go and just sign him (not very probable with Horst on the wheel)
2. Is to cooperate with Middleton on his preferred destination and "help" him to move there via a "sign and trade" and then have the FA from the other side "being helped" in return to come to the Bucks via another "sign and trade" (more probable with Horst on the wheel)

Look back to what I suggested that is possible to happen between The Bucks and the Magic at No. 1145

 

[bksballer89]

 

[shopson67]

And the Celtics last year without Kyrie and Heyward were 1 win away from the Finals.

Again, just having talent doesn't always equate to team success; I literally provided an example in 2011 where one team was more talented than the other, but better team chemistry won out.

There is a distinction between talent and team success. Kyrie Irving is a very talented player, but he doesn't make his team better, and often times actually doesn't allow others to play to their full potential when on the court.

I'm not arguing any of that. The comparison was made to identify which season had the tougher path to the finals. The Celtics were an easier opponent this year.

 

[Heatles84]

I'm not arguing any of that. The comparison was made to identify which season had the tougher path to the finals. The Celtics were an easier opponent this year.

I can agree with this. I still think the Celtics roster is talented, Kyrie just doesn't fit in with this group and you have to question if he could be a team's number 1 option and still have success. The sample size suggests not. But I think we've come to an understanding on this topic.

 

[dtgold88]

All I can do is laugh and point at this point.

It's like George Costanza's plan to get Bonds and Griffey on the Yanks "and not really give up that much".

 

[Heatles84]

It's like George Costanza's plan to get Bonds and Griffey on the Yanks "and not really give up that much".

You simpleton!!!! Don't you understand that the NBA requires all teams to help out the Bucks in anyway they see fit? I'm hearing rumors of Milwaukee potentially trading their top hot dog vendor and halftime act to the Lakers for Lebron. Negotiations are stalling though as Frank, the hot dog vendor is an invaluable member of the staff and the Lakers' asking price is too substantial.

 

[dtgold88]

You simpleton!!!! Don't you understand that the NBA requires all teams to help out the Bucks in anyway they see fit? I'm hearing rumors of Milwaukee potentially trading their top hot dog vendor and halftime act to the Lakers for Lebron. Negotiations are stalling though as Frank, the hot dog vendor is an invaluable member of the staff and the Lakers' asking price is too substantial.

Helping the Bucks? WTF are you taking about dufus? I still can see the OKC FO losing it when they are able to move maybe one of the top 2-way players in the game for the game's best 2-way guy among those who cannot get on the court.

 

[tlance]

What is the endgame? How is a team more talented if they can't utilize that talent to win games?

They are Defintely more talented. That isn't in doubt.

Also, I want to point out, last summer when everyone wanted to crown the Celtics, I was one of maybe 2 posters who said I didn't think they would be that much better because of Kyrie's fit (or lack thereof).

So I don't know what the endgame is. I have said every step of the way that the Celtics do not have a championship core because they have a lot of good players, but no great ones. I said it when the year traded for Kyrie and I doubled down on it last summer when everyone thought they would rule the East for years to come.

The Celtics are the team everyone should be talking about right now. They need to make some major moves this off season or they risk missing their window before it ever truly opens.

 

[tlance]

You haven't read my earlier posts, ...have you?

There are multiple ways to sign a free agent and never go above the 132M tax line...
1. Is to let Middleton and Hill go and just sign him (not very probable with Horst on the wheel)
2. Is to cooperate with Middleton on his preferred destination and "help" him to move there via a "sign and trade" and then have the FA from the other side "being helped" in return to come to the Bucks via another "sign and trade" (more probable with Horst on the wheel)

Look back to what I suggested that is possible to happen between The Bucks and the Magic at No. 1145

No.

We have read them.

And we have told you all along that it is utter rubbish.

 

[Shanemansj13]

They are Defintely more talented. That isn't in doubt.

Also, I want to point out, last summer when everyone wanted to crown the Celtics, I was one of maybe 2 posters who said I didn't think they would be that much better because of Kyrie's fit (or lack thereof).

So I don't know what the endgame is. I have said every step of the way that the Celtics do not have a championship core because they have a lot of good players, but no great ones. I said it when the year traded for Kyrie and I doubled down on it last summer when everyone thought they would rule the East for years to come.

The Celtics are the team everyone should be talking about right now. They need to make some major moves this off season or they risk missing their window before it ever truly opens.

I thought they would be better but didn't have them getting to the ECF's but I thought it would be due to Kyrie just breaking down....technically he did, just not physically...mentally

Lets be real, Kyrie is great but without him this team has a ceiling and without Kyrie there is not even a possible AD deal so I'm not sure what the plan should be.

Say you keep this roster same but they sign Rozier and lose Kyrie. What are we looking at? A playoff team but not a true contender especially if Kawhi stays in Toronto, KD jumps ship to NY while Kyrie goes to NY or Brooklyn. They are pretty much a 4-7 playoff seed unless Tatum forms into a superstar in the next couple years.

This is what I think, IF KYRIE BOLTS, they should:

Trade Hayward to a team (like Cleveland) to get rid of that big contract and throw in a pick. Not sure what they take back but you get rid of a huge long-term contract. Say they get back JR Smith (only $4M guaranteed) and Clarkson back, they would be saving a lot of money and especially long-term.

Just work from there if you can make that trade. Boston is still a big market that will attract FA's. You can build around your young core and draft picks this year and possibly get a FA in 2020.

 

[flyerhawk]

You haven't read my earlier posts, ...have you?

There are multiple ways to sign a free agent and never go above the 132M tax line...
1. Is to let Middleton and Hill go and just sign him (not very probable with Horst on the wheel)
2. Is to cooperate with Middleton on his preferred destination and "help" him to move there via a "sign and trade" and then have the FA from the other side "being helped" in return to come to the Bucks via another "sign and trade" (more probable with Horst on the wheel)

Look back to what I suggested that is possible to happen between The Bucks and the Magic at No. 1145

There is almost zero chance that a team is going to do a sign and trade for Middleton. Sign and trades rarely work these days. It only occurs if a player only wants to go to a team that doesn't have any cap space. Given that there are numerous teams that have cap space, it is unlikely that Middleton is going to try to force his way to a specific team.

And if there were a sign and trade the Bucks would almost certainly be taking on contracts that have multiple years on them. Not ideal for a team that wants to win now. Your scenario in post 1145 is bizarre I have to wonder whether you were drunk when you offered it.

Middleton is going to get signed for a near max level contract. He's not going to try to force himself to play for the Orlando freaking Magic simply because he may have a house 3 hours away. That's just ridiculous.

 

[flyerhawk]

I thought they would be better but didn't have them getting to the ECF's but I thought it would be due to Kyrie just breaking down....technically he did, just not physically...mentally

Lets be real, Kyrie is great but without him this team has a ceiling and without Kyrie there is not even a possible AD deal so I'm not sure what the plan should be.

Say you keep this roster same but they sign Rozier and lose Kyrie. What are we looking at? A playoff team but not a true contender especially if Kawhi stays in Toronto, KD jumps ship to NY while Kyrie goes to NY or Brooklyn. They are pretty much a 4-7 playoff seed unless Tatum forms into a superstar in the next couple years.

This is what I think, IF KYRIE BOLTS, they should:

Trade Hayward to a team (like Cleveland) to get rid of that big contract and throw in a pick. Not sure what they take back but you get rid of a huge long-term contract. Say they get back JR Smith (only $4M guaranteed) and Clarkson back, they would be saving a lot of money and especially long-term.

Just work from there if you can make that trade. Boston is still a big market that will attract FA's. You can build around your young core and draft picks this year and possibly get a FA in 2020.

I don't see how they could trade Hayward right now. His trade value is about as low as it can get.

I don't see Ainge being willing to do that.

 

[dtgold88]

I thought they would be better but didn't have them getting to the ECF's but I thought it would be due to Kyrie just breaking down....technically he did, just not physically...mentally

Lets be real, Kyrie is great but without him this team has a ceiling and without Kyrie there is not even a possible AD deal so I'm not sure what the plan should be.

Say you keep this roster same but they sign Rozier and lose Kyrie. What are we looking at? A playoff team but not a true contender especially if Kawhi stays in Toronto, KD jumps ship to NY while Kyrie goes to NY or Brooklyn. They are pretty much a 4-7 playoff seed unless Tatum forms into a superstar in the next couple years.

This is what I think, IF KYRIE BOLTS, they should:

Trade Hayward to a team (like Cleveland) to get rid of that big contract and throw in a pick. Not sure what they take back but you get rid of a huge long-term contract. Say they get back JR Smith (only $4M guaranteed) and Clarkson back, they would be saving a lot of money and especially long-term.

Just work from there if you can make that trade. Boston is still a big market that will attract FA's. You can build around your young core and draft picks this year and possibly get a FA in 2020.

I think these are good ideas, but trading Hayward might be easier said than done.