Week 8 LOL thread

[Across The Field]

Defense seems too worried about making the big play rather than simply making routine football plays and getting off of the field.

The LBs are just bad though. Play recognition is awful and they look lost half the time. They also still have not figured out the concept of taking proper angles to the ball (as the safeties have not as well)

Sheffield is terrible at CB, he's really fast but that's about it. The safties have looked bad pretty much all year. There's not really much good you can say about anyone on the defense except maybe a dlinemen or two

Young and Jones look like first rounders, no doubt there. I am really disappointed in the regression we've seen from Fuller. Coming into the year he was being touted as the next big DB to go early in the draft, and he's gone the opposite way. Arnette looks like he's reverted back to his 2016 self, also. I was also expecting a lot more from Okudah and Wade this year. Again, though, a huge part of it is our overall scheme. All man coverage with no press at the line, LBers are constantly out of position (which is leading to a lot of the horrible angles), and a complete and total ignorance of defending the middle of the field. All of that is largely on coaching assignments. It isn't that our players are slow all of the sudden, it's that they're not being put in position to make a play and are constantly trying to catch a guy that's already at top speed.

 

[ericd7633]

While Coombs wasn't the DC, he was trusted with a pretty big impact on play-calling. We've gone to a nearly man-coverage only system this year now, which is just a horrible idea and it's why teams are throwing slants for big chunk yards on us all day, and also why RBs are gashing us. The assignments are horrible (a LB on Rondale Moore, for example). Coombs coached aggression at DB, and so far they have none this year now that he's gone. Its completely night and day, and most of the guys playing this year played/started a lot last year, if not started the entire season.

Whether it's the players or coaches it's the worst I've ever seen. Also, I think the LB's just flat out aren't good.

 

[Across The Field]

Whether it's the players or coaches it's the worst I've ever seen. Also, I think the LB's just flat out aren't good.

That's what doesn't make sense. In the second half of last season, Borland looked like an absolute stud at LB who was stuffing the run constantly, and Harrison looked like a young up and coming version of Darron Lee or Jerome Baker as the rangy sideline-to-sideline type. Even Browning and Werner looked like they had a lot of promise in limited playing time. All of them look completely different this year. That makes no sense at all. Last year, we had veterans like Jerome Baker and Chris Worley to lead the group. They're very green this year and need coaching, and Davis has fallen flat on his face in that regard.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Good point. Barrett was constantly airing it out with that cannon arm he had.

I agree, a good amount of Haskins' throws recently have been slants and outs. Why do you think that is? Could it be coaching? Honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with Urban not knowing how to use a QB like him properly. During the first 3 games, he was throwing downfield much more.

We are running a different offense, but the main reason our RBs aren't dominant is because our OL has been miserable. Losing our 3-year starting LT and 1st round center didn't help, and then they moved Michael Jordan to center, which was a huge mistake. He was an elite guard but is a mediocre center. I shouldn't need to explain how changes like this can affect the run game, but I guess I do. It isn't as if all of the sudden now an extra LB is making all the stops. Our OL isn't nearly as good as run-blocking as they were last year.

I really have no idea how you're just chalking it up to guys suddenly just not being good. For years we recruited the same we have with the guys this year. We lose key coaches and suddenly things go to shit. That points to one thing. Do some research, it's far from just me pointing this out. Even guys like Bobby Carpenter and James Laurinaitis are speaking out about how horrible the defensive schemes and coaching have been this year. They're probably just bizarre too, huh?

So your defensive coordinator who has been there for a few years decided to implement brand new schemes? Do explain.

And why exactly would the kids coached by Coombs, some for multiple years, all of sudden forget what they were taught as DB’s? Or in less than a year, the new DB coach messed them all up?

With the OL — since they were great last year and OSU recruits top tier kids — are you blaming the OL coach? Or — did your OC who ran the RPO, where you end up with an extra blocker, make your RB’s look better than they were? Now that they don’t have that depeception and the defense doesn’t have to account for the QB — it has taken away their big plays?

Same with your WR — why is OSU making short throws the majority of the time? My guess is — That gives them the best chance to win, because we’ve seen how Haskins struggled when pressured, we’ve seen the WRs struggle to get separation downfield on routes. And why they don’t struggle in some games — it is purely based on talent of the opposition. UM is in the same boat — DPJ looks like a world beater against some teams, but disappears against others and that’s on his route running.

But if it makes you feel better to say it is the coaches and not the players — feel free to blame them.

 

[ericd7633]

That's what doesn't make sense. In the second half of last season, Borland looked like an absolute stud at LB who was stuffing the run constantly, and Harrison looked like a young up and coming version of Darron Lee or Jerome Baker as the rangy sideline-to-sideline type. Even Browning and Werner looked like they had a lot of promise in limited playing time. All of them look completely different this year. That makes no sense at all. Last year, we had veterans like Jerome Baker and Chris Worley to lead the group. They're very green this year and need coaching, and Davis has fallen flat on his face in that regard.

Having an elite D-Line can mask some LB issues. Ohio State certainly was much better on the D-Line last year than this year, especially without Bosa. Ohio State is essentially playing with a brand new front 4. They're just overall a young defense. They can probably improve, but I don't think they can recover to even being a top 25 defense.

 

[iowajerms]

 

[iowajerms]

 

[JuiceTheGator]

lmao @ Frost. He walked into a great deal...only to walk out of it into hell. What a dumbass.

 

[Across The Field]

So your defensive coordinator who has been there for a few years decided to implement brand new schemes? Do explain.

And why exactly would the kids coached by Coombs, some for multiple years, all of sudden forget what they were taught as DB’s? Or in less than a year, the new DB coach messed them all up?

With the OL — since they were great last year and OSU recruits top tier kids — are you blaming the OL coach? Or — did your OC who ran the RPO, where you end up with an extra blocker, make your RB’s look better than they were? Now that they don’t have that depeception and the defense doesn’t have to account for the QB — it has taken away their big plays?

Same with your WR — why is OSU making short throws the majority of the time? My guess is — That gives them the best chance to win, because we’ve seen how Haskins struggled when pressured, we’ve seen the WRs struggle to get separation downfield on routes. And why they don’t struggle in some games — it is purely based on talent of the opposition. UM is in the same boat — DPJ looks like a world beater against some teams, but disappears against others and that’s on his route running.

But if it makes you feel better to say it is the coaches and not the players — feel free to blame them.

You're right. The fact that they are literally running a different defensive scheme than last year, which is able to be noticed by and has been called out by multiple former players and Buckeye analysts, must be completely inaccurate because you say so.

You're right, OSU has suddenly and inexplicably only brought in bad players and not a single thing is wrong with the coaching staff, despite the fact that their playcalling has been called out on both sides of the ball by, again, multiple former players and analysts.

I'll guess this is one of those times you get called out for talking out of your ass and you just say you were trolling all along, so we'll just let this one go.

 

[Across The Field]

Having an elite D-Line can mask some LB issues. Ohio State certainly was much better on the D-Line last year than this year, especially without Bosa. Ohio State is essentially playing with a brand new front 4. They're just overall a young defense. They can probably improve, but I don't think they can recover to even being a top 25 defense.

Oh they're definitely a young defense, but it's never mattered in the past. Hell, our 2014 team won the title and was led largely by RS Freshmen. Marshon Lattimore, Eli Apple, Denzel Ward, and Malik Hooker all only started for one season at OSU before going to the pros, so this isn't something that should be an issue.

In 2016, OSU was 2nd in defensive efficiency nationally with Fickell and Coombs there. Fickell left and in 2017, we dropped to 7th, which wasn't bad but we still had Coombs, who was so much more than just the DBs coach. Then he leaves and in 2018, we currently sit at 50th. It's not like we've recruited any differently than we have ever since Meyer got here - we still have a very good DL, which obviously would be much better with Bosa. We have a similar mix of LBs as we've always had, and we've recruited elite DBs, just like always, so to say it's just that all these players aren't good just doesn't hold any water. It's clear where the changes have really happened.

 

[ericd7633]

Oh they're definitely a young defense, but it's never mattered in the past. Hell, our 2014 team won the title and was led largely by RS Freshmen. Marshon Lattimore, Eli Apple, Denzel Ward, and Malik Hooker all only started for one season at OSU before going to the pros, so this isn't something that should be an issue.

In 2016, OSU was 2nd in defensive efficiency nationally with Fickell and Coombs there. Fickell left and in 2017, we dropped to 7th, which wasn't bad but we still had Coombs, who was so much more than just the DBs coach. Then he leaves and in 2018, we currently sit at 50th. It's not like we've recruited any differently than we have ever since Meyer got here - we still have a very good DL, which obviously would be much better with Bosa. We have a similar mix of LBs as we've always had, and we've recruited elite DBs, just like always, so to say it's just that all these players aren't good just doesn't hold any water. It's clear where the changes have really happened.

The big difference with this team than with those teams in the past, especially with Bosa out, is that this D-line just isn't what it has been. In 2014 you had Bennett, Washington and Bosa, a senior, junior and a sophomore, who was clearly already elite, especially towards the end of that sophomore season. In 2016, you had Hubbard, a red shirt sophomore, Holmes as a junior, Lewis as a red shirt junior and then Nick Bosa, an elite FR. You had much better talent/experience on the previous 4 teams than this one does on the D-Line, especially without a guy like Bosa for this particular team. You can afford to be younger in the secondary IMO if you have an elite D-Line.

I'm not saying you've recruited differently by any means, but sometimes the 5 star guys or high end 4 star guys just don't pan out, and it doesn't always fall on the coaches. Sure coaching can be part of the reason, but some of may be the players were overrated or just can't play at this level.

 

[Across The Field]

The big difference with this team than with those teams in the past, especially with Bosa out, is that this D-line just isn't what it has been. In 2014 you had Bennett, Washington and Bosa, a senior, junior and a sophomore, who was clearly already elite, especially towards the end of that sophomore season. In 2016, you had Hubbard, a red shirt sophomore, Holmes as a junior, Lewis as a red shirt junior and then Nick Bosa, an elite FR. You had much better talent/experience on the previous 4 teams than this one does on the D-Line, especially without a guy like Bosa for this particular team. You can afford to be younger in the secondary IMO if you have an elite D-Line.

I'm not saying you've recruited differently by any means, but sometimes the 5 star guys or high end 4 star guys just don't pan out, and it doesn't always fall on the coaches. Sure coaching can part of the reason, but some of may be the players were overrated or just can't play at this level.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the DL. Dre'Mont Jones and Chase Young are projected first rounders - even top 10 depending on the outlet, and Robert Landers will get drafted somewhere in the middle rounds. Several other young guys are extremely talented, as well. Even with Bosa out, I'd argue that this DL is better than the 2014 DL. I'd put both Bennett and Washington well below Chase Young and Dre'Mont Jones. That's not been our issue this year. Obviously missing Nick Bosa was the huge blow, as they would probably be even stronger with him.

Having inexperienced LBs and DBs really sucks, but it should be something you can handle. Another change from last year was bringing in Alex Grinch and pairing him up with Greg Schiano. That duo clearly doesn't seem to be working as well together as Schiano and Coombs, probably because their philosophies sort of clash. Whatever the issue is, it's likely not going to be fixed anytime soon and it's going to derail the season.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You're right. The fact that they are literally running a different defensive scheme than last year, which is able to be noticed by and has been called out by multiple former players and Buckeye analysts, must be completely inaccurate because you say so.

You're right, OSU has suddenly and inexplicably only brought in bad players and not a single thing is wrong with the coaching staff, despite the fact that their playcalling has been called out on both sides of the ball by, again, multiple former players and analysts.

I'll guess this is one of those times you get called out for talking out of your ass and you just say you were trolling all along, so we'll just let this one go.

Ok — so feel free to tell me the different scheme they are running? Last I checked they are running a 4-3 with the exception of obvious passing downs where they bring in a nickel package. They are still running the same man cover 0 or cover 1 scheme they’ve ran since Schiano took over.

So tell me what schemes are now different other than having CB’s struggle in man coverage?

And I know this is going to come as a shock — yes, it happens where you miss out on a bunch of recruits or a number of recruits at the same position. If you’d like to see an instance where it happened for Urban Meyer — look at his last year at Florida. Top 5 recruiting classes and a 7-5 team before he had ‘health issues’. Look at Michigan — we’ve had 5 star QB’s (Shane Morris) we had the #1 duals threat QB in Devin Gardner, etc and went almost a decade without an actual QB worth a damn.

And I’m not talking out of my ass. Anyone with two eyes can see the major flaws with OSU this year. They rank near the bottom in all of CFB for 30+ yard plays given up. The same defense who finished in the top 10 in the country running the exact same defense they are now. Difference is — they don’t have the talent or the athletes this year, especially at LB and S. If it makes u feel better to blame the position coach — feel free.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Oh they're definitely a young defense, but it's never mattered in the past. Hell, our 2014 team won the title and was led largely by RS Freshmen. Marshon Lattimore, Eli Apple, Denzel Ward, and Malik Hooker all only started for one season at OSU before going to the pros, so this isn't something that should be an issue.

In 2016, OSU was 2nd in defensive efficiency nationally with Fickell and Coombs there. Fickell left and in 2017, we dropped to 7th, which wasn't bad but we still had Coombs, who was so much more than just the DBs coach. Then he leaves and in 2018, we currently sit at 50th. It's not like we've recruited any differently than we have ever since Meyer got here - we still have a very good DL, which obviously would be much better with Bosa. We have a similar mix of LBs as we've always had, and we've recruited elite DBs, just like always, so to say it's just that all these players aren't good just doesn't hold any water. It's clear where the changes have really happened.

Just because OSU had a young defense and it didn’t change much means absolutely nothing. Every recruiting class and every kid brought in will develop and improve at their own pace. No HC, no position coach and no coordinator is immune to having recruits struggle or completely whiffing on many recruits in a class.

That’s why teams spend big bucks recruiting and why the top teams handle their rosters like a pro team where they trim fat so they can sign essentially full classes every year. It is to make up for the misses and the busts.

 

[TigerBait1971]

Man, you guys fuxked up another LOL thread.

 

[ericd7633]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the DL. Dre'Mont Jones and Chase Young are projected first rounders - even top 10 depending on the outlet, and Robert Landers will get drafted somewhere in the middle rounds. Several other young guys are extremely talented, as well. Even with Bosa out, I'd argue that this DL is better than the 2014 DL. I'd put both Bennett and Washington well below Chase Young and Dre'Mont Jones. That's not been our issue this year. Obviously missing Nick Bosa was the huge blow, as they would probably be even stronger with him.

Having inexperienced LBs and DBs really sucks, but it should be something you can handle. Another change from last year was bringing in Alex Grinch and pairing him up with Greg Schiano. That duo clearly doesn't seem to be working as well together as Schiano and Coombs, probably because their philosophies sort of clash. Whatever the issue is, it's likely not going to be fixed anytime soon and it's going to derail the season.

I'm not sure how anyone can have either of them as a projected 1st rounder let alone a top 10 pick. Chase Young has potential, sure, but when you're getting shredded in the run game, and are inconsistent getting pressure on the QB, I'm not sure how that translates to a potential 1st round selection. Ohio State is 77th in the country in rush yards allowed per attempt on defense, and that's with having played Rutgers and Tulane. That is by a WIDE margin the worst of any team in the time frame we're talking about(2014-2018). I don't see anyway that this D-Line is better than 2014, without Bosa. Maybe it's all on the LB's and secondary, but you yourself said it's mostly the same players, or players that played last year, the one difference is the D-Line. Last year Ohio State was 3rd in the country in rushing yards allowed per attempt.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I'm not sure how anyone can have either of them as a projected 1st rounder let alone a top 10 pick. Chase Young has potential, sure, but when you're getting shredded in the run game, and are inconsistent getting pressure on the QB, I'm not sure how that translates to a potential 1st round selection. Ohio State is 77th in the country in rush yards allowed per attempt on defense, and that's with having played Rutgers and Tulane. That is by a WIDE margin the worst of any team in the time frame we're talking about(2014-2018). I don't see anyway that this D-Line is better than 2014, without Bosa. Maybe it's all on the LB's and secondary, but you yourself said it's mostly the same players, or players that played last year, the one difference is the D-Line. Last year Ohio State was 3rd in the country in rushing yards allowed per attempt.

I literally have no clue why he is saying they have basically the same players. Tracy Sprinkle, Sam Hubbard, Jalyn Holmes and Tyquan Lewis left the DL. Booker, Worley, Baker left the LB’s. Denzel Ward, Damon Webb left the secondary.

He is talking like they returned all these starters, when Sprinkle, Hubbard, Holmes, Baker, Ward, Webb went to the NFL. Booker went to the CFL and I’m not sure about Worley, but I’d guess he is in the NFL too.

 

[ericd7633]

I literally have no clue why he is saying they have basically the same players. Tracy Sprinkle, Sam Hubbard, Jalyn Holmes and Tyquan Lewis left the DL. Booker, Worley, Baker left the LB’s. Denzel Ward, Damon Webb left the secondary.

He is talking like they returned all these starters, when Sprinkle, Hubbard, Holmes, Baker, Ward, Webb went to the NFL. Booker went to the CFL and I’m not sure about Worley, but I’d guess he is in the NFL too.

I don't follow the roster turnover that closely, but I did know that Hubbard, Holmes and Lewis were all drafted, so that was 3 guys on the D-line and then with the injury to Bosa, that's 4 guys off their D-line not playing this year. At some point all these early entries to the NFL are going to effect a teams depth. That's another issue, they simply don't have that, particularly on the D-line. He's saying this Landers guy will be a mid round draft pick and he has 2 tackles for loss this season, with 0 sacks in his redshirt junior season. You don't have to really look any further than their 2015 class for why this years D-line isn't any good. 4 star Jashon Cornell didn't live up to the hype. Landers was a 3 star, who's done next to nothing, Alabi and Berry are guys I never heard of, and I couldn't even tell you if they were still at the school. Dre'mont Jones was the other guy in that class, and he's IMO a mid round pick. Looking at the 2016 class, Cooper hasn't lived up to the hype, Bosa's off to the NFL, Barrow has retired because of injury. They have no depth. They are relying on young, talented guys out of high school with no experience, or experienced less talented guys.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't follow the roster turnover that closely, but I did know that Hubbard, Holmes and Lewis were all drafted, so that was 3 guys on the D-line and then with the injury to Bosa, that's 4 guys off their D-line not playing this year. At some point all these early entries to the NFL are going to effect a teams depth. That's another issue, they simply don't have that, particularly on the D-line. He's saying this Landers guy will be a mid round draft pick and he has 2 tackles for loss this season, with 0 sacks in his redshirt junior season. You don't have to really look any further than their 2015 class for why this years D-line isn't any good. 4 star Jashon Cornell didn't live up to the hype. Landers was a 3 star, who's done next to nothing, Alabi and Berry are guys I never heard of, and I couldn't even tell you if they were still at the school. Dre'mont Jones was the other guy in that class, and he's IMO a mid round pick. Looking at the 2016 class, Cooper hasn't lived up to the hype, Bosa's off to the NFL, Barrow has retired because of injury. They have no depth. They are relying on young, talented guys out of high school with no experience, or experienced less talented guys.

OSU fans are stubborn. They seem to think they are immune to missing on a recruit or multiple recruits. They think you plug in and the freshmen will play like experienced upperclassmen.
Truth is — some of them will. Reality is — many of them won’t. When you lose 7 or 8 guys from your defense, as well as Bosa — you are not going to be the same defense the majority of the time.
He continues to talk about guys they recruited at LB who were top 100 recruits, but they couldn’t beat out the guys they have starting. OSU’s LB crew reminds me of UM’s a few years ago in Harbaugh’s first year. We had 3 average guys, nothing special about them, but they were the best we had to put out there. They were good against weaker teams, but wouldn’t get run off the field by any team with speed.
Their safeties are freak athletes but have zero instincts and play recognition. I wish I could find the video of that Purdue TD run on Saturday. Pryor literally had no idea the RB had the ball 10+ yards down the field until he ran by him.

Sad part is — OSU has an offense that can score on anyone so they still have a shot to win out. I just hope UM doesn’t have any slip ups. Will be fun to watch OSU’s offense and UM’s defense go at each other.

 

[Edisto_Tiger]

lol @ me! I'm drunk on a Tuesday night.