Jaguars gift Bortles new 3-year, $54M deal

[Stymietee]

Alotta Bronco fans around here want Cousins in Denver. Plus when it comes to drafting QB's Elway so far has been terrible.

I know what the sentiment must be in Denver, however, there's a reality that comes with signing Cousins to a deal that's going to be competitive with what he'll command and maintaining the competitive edge that Denver currently holds.

Beyond that, Elway is known to be a pretty frugal guy when the question is paying or rather overpaying QB's. I believe that he's sold on Mayfield and is more likely going that route instead of chasing Kirk. There's an energy to Mayfield that Cousins simply doesn't have, that I also believe Elway wants to bring to the Broncos offense.

No doubt Cousins would be a nice fit in Denver and while I don't disagree with your assertion related to what the fans want, the terrible Elway drafting QB's, IMO will do exactly that for the reasons stated.

 

[Wamu]

I know what the sentiment must be in Denver, however, there's a reality that comes with signing Cousins to a deal that's going to be competitive with what he'll command and maintaining the competitive edge that Denver currently holds.

Beyond that, Elway is known to be a pretty frugal guy when the question is paying or rather overpaying QB's. I believe that he's sold on Mayfield and is more likely going that route instead of chasing Kirk. There's an energy to Mayfield that Cousins simply doesn't have, that I also believe Elway wants to bring to the Broncos offense.

No doubt Cousins would be a nice fit in Denver and while I don't disagree with your assertion related to what the fans want, the terrible Elway drafting QB's, IMO will do exactly that for the reasons stated.

I'm actually in Boulder, but close enough. I agree the money he's looking for might be a bit much for Elway. It's just funny to listen to some of the Bronco fans around here who honestly don't even follow the NFL outside of their team.

And I can see them drafting a QB rather than signing 1 to a big contract only due to what it would cost. But something has to be done about their current QB situation because it's awful. One negative though about drafting a QB as opposed to signing Captain Kirk is the Denver D isn't getting any younger & I think the organization is closer to reaching the ultimate goal again w/ a veteran rather than a rookie.

 

[Davis_Mike]

The Cards could be a sneaky team. I agree with the other three.

Nope, the money just isn't there to pay a QB $25+ mil aav. Realistically, if the team cuts the players many expect them to, the team will have about $40 mil in space. They will need to rebuild the O-line & find some WRs to go with a QB. It's more likely the team signs Keenum, Bridgewater, or trades for a QB.

 

[Stymietee]

you know the rewriting of history here is amazing . the skins could have had KC for multi years in 2015 when this started , and again in 2016 . the skins FO drove the market up by their lack of foresight .

the jags in a similar situation showed faith in a young qb they drafted and got him on the cheap which is what our team should have done in 2015

the kicker is if bortles flops they can get out of it with little or no pain and they also send the signal to their other young players the the FO will invest in their futures as well if they perform

a lot of people here want to resign BB. maybe BB doesnt want to be here because of how they handled other players they drafted here and he doesnt want to commit here

i dont hear anywhere near the debate for BB not wanting to sign here because of the bungling FO though now do I . havent heard the word greedy applied to him either

I think that what's misunderstood with regards to Cousins, is that as far back as that 2015 off season is concerned, Kirk publicly stated that he wanted to play on the tag. Of course that came after failed negotiations and the resulting resolve between Kirk and his agent that he no longer wanted to play in DC on a long term deal. Few here wanted to admit that and the thousands of thread posts that followed, debating and condemning the organization were the result.

The game alone is fun to play, however, the business side, sobers the mind like nothing gained in playing it. BB like KC, can play the game, neither is at a point in their careers where usefulness is limited and interest wanes. There are factors that go into decisions to play in one place vs the other. On such factor they will consider as businessmen will be, almost anywhere else, is better than the dysfunctional place that is known.

 

[Sleepy T]

you know the rewriting of history here is amazing . the skins could have had KC for multi years in 2015 when this started , and again in 2016 . the skins FO drove the market up by their lack of foresight .

the jags in a similar situation showed faith in a young qb they drafted and got him on the cheap which is what our team should have done in 2015

the kicker is if bortles flops they can get out of it with little or no pain and they also send the signal to their other young players the the FO will invest in their futures as well if they perform

a lot of people here want to resign BB. maybe BB doesnt want to be here because of how they handled other players they drafted here and he doesnt want to commit here

i dont hear anywhere near the debate for BB not wanting to sign here because of the bungling FO though now do I . havent heard the word greedy applied to him either

I would hardly call a 2 year extension as showing faith in their young QB. They can likely get out of this deal (as you said) sooner than later. Furthermore, he may not pass a physical prior to 3/14 so he would be guaranteed this year anyways. Jags on the hook anyways. The Jags would like to see more from Bortles, just like we wanted to see more from Cousins. They are taking advantage of his injury situation and the lack of cap space to sign someone else, to get a team friendly short term contract. Pretty good play by the Jags FO IMO.

If we would have offered KC a contract similar in structure to this at the end of ‘15, would he have taken it?? Wrt the contract versus the tags we placed, would we have been in a better situation right now? He would still be a FA or coming up on it, so probably not a lot better if at all.

 

[Sharkinva]

Wouldnt it be ironic if the market sort of self corrected, and Kirk ended up signing a deal with $75M guaranteed that averaged around $27.5M a year and it wasnt with the Browns

 

[Stymietee]

I'm actually in Boulder, but close enough. I agree the money he's looking for might be a bit much for Elway. It's just funny to listen to some of the Bronco fans around here who honestly don't even follow the NFL outside of their team.

And I can see them drafting a QB rather than signing 1 to a big contract only due to what it would cost. But something has to be done about their current QB situation because it's awful. One negative though about drafting a QB as opposed to signing Captain Kirk is the Denver D isn't getting any younger & I think the organization is closer to reaching the ultimate goal again w/ a veteran rather than a rookie.

Agreed, they actually could work things out in a way to get Cousins signed, however, that would require either letting go of a few free agents in 2019 or restructuring current contracts in a way that creates dead cap money in future years. Possibly a combination of both. Then there's Kirk himself who has to weigh the questionable win now mentality that comes, as you've mentioned, with that aging defense. Kirk is not going to sign a two or three year contract, it will be more like a five to 7 year deal that would look something like this: (Courtesy of article written by Bob Morris - Dec 20, 2017 )

• $45M signing bonus, fully guaranteed upon signing.
• $14M paid in 2018, fully guaranteed upon signing, with $7M as a roster bonus and the remaining $7M as a base salary.
• $18M paid in 2019, of which $6M would be fully guaranteed upon signing and the remaining $12M as an injury-only guarantee, but becomes fully guaranteed if Cousins in on the roster on the first day of the 2019 league year.
• $19M in 2020, which is injury-only guaranteed upon signing. If Cousins is on the roster on the first day of the 2019 league year, $9M of that money becomes fully guaranteed, with the remainder becoming fully guaranteed if Cousins is on the roster on the first day of the 2020 league year. ($28M cap)
• $21M paid in 2021, treated as an option year. If the option is exercised, Cousins would receive a $7M roster bonus with the remainder paid in base salary. If the option is declined, Cousins becomes an unrestricted free agent.
• $23M paid in 2022, also treated as an option year with the same principle: Cousins gets a $7M roster bonus with the rest as base salary if the option is exercised, or he becomes an unrestricted free agent if it isn’t exercised.

Here’s what that contract structure would look like, with the cap numbers each year and the ramifications for cutting him when the contract is signed (but bear in mind, as money becomes fully guaranteed, those ramifications will change):

I just can't see Elway putting his team in this type situation which would be against everything that's known about him since taking control in Denver.

 

[Stymietee]

Nope, the money just isn't there to pay a QB $25+ mil aav. Realistically, if the team cuts the players many expect them to, the team will have about $40 mil in space. They will need to rebuild the O-line & find some WRs to go with a QB. It's more likely the team signs Keenum, Bridgewater, or trades for a QB.

Agreed, weighing need vs ability to meet those needs makes signing Cousins there unlikely. Good call.

 

[Stymietee]

Wouldnt it be ironic if the market sort of self corrected, and Kirk ended up signing a deal with $75M guaranteed that averaged around $27.5M a year and it wasnt with the Browns

That would, ironically be, funny as hell and oddly sad in the same instance.

 

[skinsdad62]

I would hardly call a 2 year extension as showing faith in their young QB. They can likely get out of this deal (as you said) sooner than later. Furthermore, he may not pass a physical prior to 3/14 so he would be guaranteed this year anyways. Jags on the hook anyways. The Jags would like to see more from Bortles, just like we wanted to see more from Cousins. They are taking advantage of his injury situation and the lack of cap space to sign someone else, to get a team friendly short term contract. Pretty good play by the Jags FO IMO.

If we would have offered KC a contract similar in structure to this at the end of ‘15, would he have taken it?? Wrt the contract versus the tags we placed, would we have been in a better situation right now? He would still be a FA or coming up on it, so probably not a lot better if at all.

KC would have taken 16 mil as has been documented many times and the skins could have gotten out of that deal as well sooner rather then later . the jags didnt bet against bortles they supported him . and they are seeing more of bortles with a show of faith

 

[Stymietee]

Kirk would not have signed that deal, the cap paid him more in the single first season, free agency or another cap would have paid him even more in the second year, even more as we now know, in this the third year.

 

[Sleepy T]

Kirk would not have signed that deal, the cap paid him more in the single first season, free agency or another cap would have paid him even more in the second year, even more as we now know, in this the third year.

Exactly. If I recall, the FO offered him something very similar (to Bortles’ contract) following the ‘15 season. Close to @skinsdad62 s number. KCs camp countered with an offer much closer to the cap # with significantly more in guarantees.

In hindsight, we should have done that deal, but we would still be in the same place we are today.

 

[skinsdad62]

Exactly. If I recall, the FO offered him something very similar (to Bortles’ contract) following the ‘15 season. Close to @skinsdad62 s number. KCs camp countered with an offer much closer to the cap # with significantly more in guarantees.

In hindsight, we should have done that deal, but we would still be in the same place we are today.

again in 2015 he would have and the only reason it never came to pass was 396

 

[Sharkinva]

Exactly. If I recall, the FO offered him something very similar (to Bortles’ contract) following the ‘15 season. Close to @skinsdad62 s number. KCs camp countered with an offer much closer to the cap # with significantly more in guarantees.

In hindsight, we should have done that deal, but we would still be in the same place we are today.

IM going to slightly disagree. When Kirk was willing to sign what most would have considered a reasonable extension Bruce was having none of it for fear of damaging the relationship with Voldemort. At the end of 15 They tried to give him the same offer after he had to a degree proven himself. The price Kirk is likely to cost now is a direct reflection of Bruce and Dan artificially inflating his price by tagging him twice.

And here is the kicker, had they signed him to that 3 year extension in the middle of 15, trying to resign him NOW likely would have been easier because it would have shown.... stick with me here... Faith and Support of the player by the front office.

 

[Stymietee]

The problem is, there was a cap and that cap offered guaranteed single season money, Kirk was not going to sign an extension under any circumstance. I said it then, and NOW everyone else knows that it was as true then as it is now.

Here's a question for everyone still hanging onto the idea that Kirk would have signed an extension back then. Ready??

If you're his agent and you've done the math with regards to cap money, and, believed in your client's ability as much as the client did, why would you give up potentially 44million (possibly 78) in guarantees over two or possibly three years and/or (key part) the chance to become a extremely well paid free agent who commands top dollar?

Admit it guys, Kirk and his agent were focused on long term, they played the cap game perfectly, collected the 44 million in guaranteed money, and (key part) maintained their ability to become a prized free agent.

 

[gkekoa]

The Jags didn’t extend Bortles. They offered him a 3 year deal at $18 million a season. Bortles, not having any delusions of grandeur (unlike KC), signed the team friendly deal.

KC’s options got more limited.

Actually, it was an extension. Last offseason Jax exercised the fifth year option on Bortles which guaranteed him 19 million in 2018. So he was in fact under contract with a cap hit of 19 million.

He is now extended via a fresh new contract through 2020. The guaranteed money was simply 7 million more than he was already guaranteed.

But hell, I could be wrong.

Why did the Jaguars choose to extend Blake Bortles through 2020?

 

[deanpet21]

The Cards have David Johnson going for them, that’s true. They have a porous online, an ancient Fitz, a new coach, and are now the second or third best team in the NFC West, and could be the worst team in the West if Garappolo is the real deal.

Not ideal for Kirk “I just want to win” Cousins.

true

 

[gkekoa]

KC got a commitment from the Redskins. He got a multi year contract, but it wasn’t to his liking, so he bet on himself and won’t sign a LTD before free agency.

Nothing wrong with that.

It’s telling that the Jags aren’t interested in KC, a qb who is better than Bortles, without debate. It could be that they think his asking price is going to be ridiculously high. If it was going to be reasonable, You could argue that the Jags would have been KC’s best fit.

The Jags were not interested because they could not afford him.

 

[deanpet21]

you know the rewriting of history here is amazing . the skins could have had KC for multi years in 2015 when this started , and again in 2016 . the skins FO drove the market up by their lack of foresight .

the jags in a similar situation showed faith in a young qb they drafted and got him on the cheap which is what our team should have done in 2015

the kicker is if bortles flops they can get out of it with little or no pain and they also send the signal to their other young players the the FO will invest in their futures as well if they perform

a lot of people here want to resign BB. maybe BB doesnt want to be here because of how they handled other players they drafted here and he doesnt want to commit here

i dont hear anywhere near the debate for BB not wanting to sign here because of the bungling FO though now do I . havent heard the word greedy applied to him either

who wants BB back?

 

[Sharkinva]

If you're his agent and you've done the math with regards to cap money, and, believed in your client's ability as much as the client did, why would you give up potentially 44million (possibly 78) in guarantees over two or possibly three years and/or (key part) the chance to become a extremely well paid free agent who commands top dollar?

Admit it guys, Kirk and his agent were focused on long term, they played the cap game perfectly, collected the 44 million in guaranteed money, and (key part) maintained their ability to become a prized free agent.

Rewrite history much??? If we are talking the middle of 2015 when SMGM wanted to sign Kirk initially, all signs pointed to him signing it because it was the final year of his rookie deal and he had no resume to speak of. Things did not go off the rails until Bruce decided he didnt want to extend Kirk... just in case they still needed Bob. Thats when the cap as you mention it came into play. Which was actually the tag