Will Russell Wilson be the Seahawks First?

[Screamin12th]

So the Hawks have had some talented QB's in the past Namely Zorn, Krieg, Moon and Hasselbeck but none have ever topped 4,000 yards. Hasselbeck was the closest at 3,966 in 2007 and holds the top 2 spots for a season ( 03,07 ) followed by Moon in 97 then Krieg in 1984.

For some reason i thought Moon had got something like 4,001 passing yards with us one season but i was wrong. After i saw this i started to think about how this team has always pretty much been a run first team and even in the 2007 season they were still built around that mentality even though they had no run game to speak of they still tried to be a run first team.

Russell is on one of the most run heavy Seahawks teams ever yet he has a chance to do something no other Hawks QB has ever done and to be honest, if you asked me and i know you didn't, but i think Wilson has less talent to throw to at WR than any of the aforementioned QB's. I am shocked the Hawks have never surpassed that mark but i have a strong feeling Russell will in his career.

So will Russell be the first QB to pass 4k or not? Will he break it this Year?

 

[WizardHawk]

I'm sure he will easily lead the all time sacks taken before it's all said an done. He could actually catch Zorn this year, but probably next and is half way to Hasselbecks career total with us over his 10 years here. And that's in 3 seasons ffs.

Why does that matter in this context? Because he's got to get a lot better at reading defenses and making those protection adjustments and getting through his progression and into his check downs on time if he's ever going to have those kinds of numbers in a season. Will it happen this year? No.

 

[Davis_Mike]

He will be close this season. He is on pace for 3800. But as the season goes on & the Seahawks run the ball more with Lynch back, I am not sure he gets there.

 

[WizardHawk]

He will be close this season. He is on pace for 3800. But as the season goes on & the Seahawks run the ball more with Lynch back, I am not sure he gets there.

Paul Richardson rejoins the team this week and might see the field as early as this Sunday. He's easily as fast as our rookie Lockett. The two of them out there create all sorts of problems.

It's more about the protection than the heavy lean to running. If he can't maximize each passing opportunity he can't reach those goals. He will have as many chances as this offense normally gives him. The more his protection, and his bad decisions within it, fail, the less yards he's going to get.

 

[Screamin12th]

Yes Protection Not Russell's defensive reading ability or protection calls will be the main cause that he doesn't make 4k this year if in fact he doesn't. I see a lot of people bagging on Russell lately on here and after 7 games of watching the worst oline i have ever seen play for the Hawks i can say you are all off base here. "oh he has happy feet, he doesn't read fast enough, he makes stupid mistakes, he is missing wide open receivers". Come on people EVERY SINGLE ONE of those is caused by the pass rush he is dealing with at an unheard of rate yet he is having a solid season despite the horrid down right putrid play from the Oline. That right there is Amazing.

I think Russell would be one of only 2 or 3 QB's in the NFL that could play as well as he has behind this oline. We are crazy lucky to have him because this is when we need him the most. Imagine if we had a slow or even average QB behind this line, oh god the horror. A slow footed QB on this offense would be lucky to complete 1 pass out of 30 in a game lmao, and he would be sacked 10+ times. Tom Brady behind the Seahawks line? LMAO he would have faked a Injury all ready to protect himself from playing behind this line. He also would have been sacked twice as much.

 

[blstoker]

There are things I am a lot more concerned about than Wilson being the first 4000 yard passer in team history. Like, turning the ball over less. But, if I had to worry about his yardage production I would look at his total offense (passing yards + rushing yards), which he's already #1 and all 3 of his years are top 10:

1. Russell Wilson, 2014 (4324)
2. Matt Hasselbeck, 2007 (4055)
3. Matt Hasselbeck, 2003 (3966)
4. Jim Zorn, 1979 (3940)
5. Russell Wilson, 2013 (3896)
6. Dave Krieg, 1984 (3857)
7. Dave Krieg, 1985 (3723)
8. Warren Moon, 1997 (3718)
9. Russell Wilson, 2012 (3607)
10. Matt Hasselbeck, 2005 (3583)

Or even Overall offense (passing yards + rushing yards - sack yards lost), which again he's #1 with all 3 in the top 10:

1. Russell Wilson, 2014 (4082)
2. Matt Hasselbeck, 2007 (3851)
3. Jim Zorn, 1979 (3739)
4. Matt Hasselbeck, 2003 (3966)
5. Russell Wilson, 2013 (3624)
6. Dave Krieg, 1984 (3543)
7. Warren Moon, 1997 (3526)
8. Matt Hasselbeck, 2005 (33429)
9. Russell Wilson, 2012 (3404)
10. Matt Hasselbeck, 2004 (3317)

 

[WizardHawk]

Yes Protection Not Russell's defensive reading ability or protection calls will be the main cause that he doesn't make 4k this year if in fact he doesn't. I see a lot of people bagging on Russell lately on here and after 7 games of watching the worst oline i have ever seen play for the Hawks i can say you are all off base here.

The following people all disagree with you:
Brock Huard
Huge Millen
Mike Mayock
And several other former QB's that have been interviewed on the radio lately. Those that take the time to break down the all 22 are entirely in agreement on it.

It is universally unanimous that many of Wilson's sacks were preventable by either understanding protection and making the right adjustment, or making quicker/better decisions during the play.

It's not 'bagging' on anyone, it's just being honest in assessing where ALL of the problems are.

Now, some of those which more traditional QB's would avoid are simply the price to take Wilson's unique scrambling abilities. That is, when he doesn't do what normal QB's do and still finds a way to make a great play out of it he's a hero, the rest of the time it's facepalm.

To simply dismiss the critique however, seems like blind homerism. He doesn't avoid as many sacks as he could, nor as many as most other great QB's would/do. That's simply a fact. It doesn't mean anyone say that is any less a fan of his, nor that they are somehow insulting him.

 

[Screamin12th]

Then they are all wrong, Wilson is averaging 2.4 seconds before contact. It takes 1.7 to take a 5 step Drop leaving him about a half second before he has first contact from the rush. Now he see's said rush and takes steps to avoid it is adding to his read time. You can not go through your reads or progression that fast. Wilson normally gets through his first read then has to run for his life.

You rarely have a QB play at the level Russell Wilson is if he is having all these issues you are trying to place on him. Now if you want to talk about Kaep then yeah your right but not Wilson. He is strong, faster and more accurate this season with his passes but he is also running for his life now because he doesn't "TRUST" his oline to hold up. That right there is the Issue, the putrid play and Russell not trusting his Oline. Not his inability to read defenses or react to a blitz. Case in point look at his rating against the blitz from 2012-14, top 10 in the NFL. Yes it had dropped this year a little but OMFG what did you expect to happen after he has been CREAMED so much so far this season? If you asked someone to watch your house and they burned it down EVERY time you asked them to, Would you trust them to watch it again? hell no you wouldn't, Right now that is where Russell Wilson is at in his mind and rightfully so.

 

[WizardHawk]

So former NFL QB's that study the film are all wrong. Former HC's like Mike Holmgren are wrong. The few in the media that really study this stuff are wrong. Only some dude on the interwebz is right? Is that what you believe?

No one said EVERY sack is his fault, however Millen put most of them in the Carolina game on him. Some games it's half, some one or two, and others most. It's a play by play/case by case basis. What they ALL agree on is he could substantially reduce the number of sacks he takes by improving in his presnap reads/adjustments and/or making better decisions in the play. Several of them point out obvious things he misses in presnap reads that veteran QB's typically catch. Remember, he's still pretty young and not really a seasoned vet yet. He doesn't always find his hot reads and dump when he should, he doesn't always throw it away when he should, and sometimes he leaves the pocket too soon when staying there and completing the play would have prevented a sack. These are not opinions, they are statements of fact that are unanimous among those who played/coached the game that study it.

I'm sorry, but I'll go with those former players and coaches every damned time.

Again, I don't get why there are so many online that think of Wilson as the second coming. If anyone dares to suggest he has more room for growth it's as if we threw acid in his face. You can't question any part of his game or you suffer the wrath. It really is ok to take an honest look at him and still hold him in very high regard while also pointing out the weaker parts of his game or suggesting with more time he might actually get even better. It doesn't make you a hater.

 

[Screamin12th]

I have not heard Holmgren say a thing, i have heard Gruden talk about it and Warner and they all say it's the oline and Russell doesn't trust them. I have not heard Huard or Mayock say it was Wilson fault. I did Hear Mayock say if the Hawks Oline doesn't get better soon then Wilson wont make it through the whole season.

 

[MKHawk]

It's not as simple as saying "it's Russell's fault" or "it's the O-Line's fault". There have been plenty of sacks where the O-Line has given Russell no chance, but there have been plenty of sacks where Russell was to blame too.

 

[chf]

I remember reading an interview with Steve Young, where he talks about the coach literally tying his feet together so he COULDN'T scramble in practice.

Wilson simply has more stuff (options) than those QB's mentioned did. Thus more decisions to make in that half second to 2 seconds.

Him throwing at the % he is, is impressive.

Question is, will he continue to improve and progress doing those things (make protection calls, hitting hot reads) as he plays?

Because it's simply NOT a foregone conclusion that he's going to be catastrophically injured with the way he plays. He could be sure. But he's not limping around wincing every play. I saw Jeff Garcia take worse hits playing in the CFL. He continued that style in San Fran too.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

So former NFL QB's that study the film are all wrong. Former HC's like Mike Holmgren are wrong. The few in the media that really study this stuff are wrong. Only some dude on the interwebz is right? Is that what you believe?

No one said EVERY sack is his fault, however Millen put most of them in the Carolina game on him. Some games it's half, some one or two, and others most. It's a play by play/case by case basis. What they ALL agree on is he could substantially reduce the number of sacks he takes by improving in his presnap reads/adjustments and/or making better decisions in the play. Several of them point out obvious things he misses in presnap reads that veteran QB's typically catch. Remember, he's still pretty young and not really a seasoned vet yet. He doesn't always find his hot reads and dump when he should, he doesn't always throw it away when he should, and sometimes he leaves the pocket too soon when staying there and completing the play would have prevented a sack. These are not opinions, they are statements of fact that are unanimous among those who played/coached the game that study it.

I'm sorry, but I'll go with those former players and coaches every damned time.

Again, I don't get why there are so many online that think of Wilson as the second coming. If anyone dares to suggest he has more room for growth it's as if we threw acid in his face. You can't question any part of his game or you suffer the wrath. It really is ok to take an honest look at him and still hold him in very high regard while also pointing out the weaker parts of his game or suggesting with more time he might actually get even better. It doesn't make you a hater.

Well you found a couple of ex players and coaches that believe the same thing you do. That's all. There are plenty of other articles from experts that give Wilson credit too. Too say Wilson's sack being his fault are statements of fact and unanimous is completely untrue. It's not even unanimous on this board. Peter King, John Gruden and Pat Kirwan are just three experts who come to mind who usually only have glowing things to say about Wilson. Wilson is certainly responsible for his share of sacks but the O-line and even the WR's are even more responsible in my opinion. You could easily make the argument that if not for Wilson's unique ability to escape he'd make the O-line look even worse and he'd be sacked far more frequently.

Russell Wilson is on a 70-sack pace

Will Seahawks' O-Line Problems Lead to Wasted Season?

Russell Wilson Thriving Despite O-Line | Pro Football Focus

Wilson can still grow, and he will, but he's actually doing quite well even now behind our bad o-line.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

From ProFootball Focus:

"And now to the elephant in the room: the Seattle offensive line. A lot has been made of this, and it’s reflected in the drop in pass block efficiency rating and the correlated increase in pressure rate. What isn’t being talked about is how Wilson is simultaneously handling the pressure and still producing results.


His 77.3 accuracy rate while under pressure is only behind Philip Rivers and Eli Manning, both of whom are top-four in shortest average time to throw (2.18 and 2.27 seconds). Wilson, on the other hand, holds on to the ball the second-longest (3.01 sec), which makes his 77.3 rate even more absurd. In only one-third of a season, he’s already surpassed his 2012 season in terms of passing under pressure grading."

 

[WizardHawk]

1 - I NEVER said it was all Wilson's fault. Stop that. You lose credibility if you distort what is actually being said.
2 - Peter King was on the radio last week with Mitch and they asked him about it and told him what Millen and Holmgren have said and he said he's not an expert enough in looking at film to know one way or the other so any mention of his weighing in on it is pure and utter bullshit. He clearly said he would defer to what they were talking about and agreed in principle to it. I'm sure the segment is in the KJR podcasts. Don't make me go look for it. It happened.
3 - Millen and Holmgren have their own segment on KJR where the two can talk about anything they want without Mitch or anyone else asking questions or directing the chat. It's wednesdays from 7am-8am. Listen for yourself tomorrow. I'm sure it will come up again. They break down each play one by one and discuss what they saw and what he could have done.
4 - There isn't a word anyone else has posted that rules out the fact that there are plays that end in a sack that Wilson could have done something differently to avoid it. PERIOD. This is a pure statement of fact. I have not said that means each and every one is on him, nor that having a better line so he didn't have to make a choice to begin with would be a much better situation all around. These are obvious things people.

Wilson could help out his bad pass protection on ***** SOME ****** of his sacks and prevent ***** SOME ***** of the extra hits he is taking. I still stand by my assertion that EVERY single person who HAS ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THE ALL 22 agrees with that. Find anyone that actually looked at it hard to disagree, not someone speaking in generalities or who only watched the TV coverage. You can't and you won't.

 

[Tech_God]

I have not studied any film but I've said in quite a few games (to my wife) that I think Wilson should be playing better in his fourth year as a QB. I have noticed that there have been some sacks in the game that is completely Wilson't fault.

That being said, with Wilson, the good far outweighs the bad. He's the greatest QB in Seahawks history and barring injury, he'll have the stats to back it up. I just wish he would play with a little more common sense.

 

[Uhsplit]

NFL teams have done a pretty good job of scouting Russ and knowing how to better play him. It is now up to the coaches and Russ to step up to a higher level.

 

[WizardHawk]

That's really all anyone is saying.
Some of the sacks are entirely on the line. We know the blocking is horrible most passing plays and he really doesn't have a chance on some of them.
Some are created by that same bad line, but a seasoned veteran QB could have still prevented a sack either with the PSR, or actions afterward.
And then some are simply the price to pay for a mobile QB that prefers to scramble. Sometimes doing that ends up in a sack, most of the times it doesn't, but most other QB's wouldn't have scrambled in the same situation and thus wouldn't have been in position to take a sack.

None of that is dumping on him. He's a solid QB. However, even he would tell you he has a lot of room for growth to become even better and this is one area he himself has to know he can get better at.

5 years from now he might be just a monster because of those improvements. He's still pretty young.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

That's really all anyone is saying.
Some of the sacks are entirely on the line. We know the blocking is horrible most passing plays and he really doesn't have a chance on some of them.
Some are created by that same bad line, but a seasoned veteran QB could have still prevented a sack either with the PSR, or actions afterward.
And then some are simply the price to pay for a mobile QB that prefers to scramble. Sometimes doing that ends up in a sack, most of the times it doesn't, but most other QB's wouldn't have scrambled in the same situation and thus wouldn't have been in position to take a sack.

None of that is dumping on him. He's a solid QB. However, even he would tell you he has a lot of room for growth to become even better and this is one area he himself has to know he can get better at.

5 years from now he might be just a monster because of those improvements. He's still pretty young.

Watch 22 film and yes Wilson does create some sack and seems to eager to leave the pocket. On the other hand seen the OL totally blow blocks. It only takes one, but the OL offen blow more then one block on pass blocks. Gilliam is the worse offender followed by Britt, but they seem to take turns. Ever OL has blown multiple blocks. Don't think RW can progress a whole lot until the OL is trust worthy.

 

[WizardHawk]

naw, he will keep growing and progressing no matter what kind of line he has. I'm sure we won't see the same dumb throw down field into coverage with protection on top with a late throw. You only need to do that once to learn that's a bad deal.

People are just hoping he's not going to get creamed out there before the line gets its shit together. Every single Seahawks fan is just crapping themselves waiting to see what Hardy does to him this week. And there are others just as vicious as him waiting in future games.