WATT??? Burning out on the JJ Hype

[ducky]

If I had a vote for MVP, I would vote for the guy who most influenced his teams wins.

You take Watt off the Texans and instead of being 6-6, they are 5-7 or maybe 4-8 worst case. He simply isn't that influential of a player IMO.

You take Rodgers off the Packers or Manning off the Broncos and those teams go from best in the league to winning only a handful of games. That makes them more valuable.

The time when a defensive player can influence a teams win total by a large margin has long since passed which makes them less valuable than an offensive player. The MVP will almost always justifiably go to an offensive player and a player like Watt wins the defensive player of the year.

 

[fordman84]

If I had a vote for MVP, I would vote for the guy who most influenced his teams wins.

You take Watt off the Texans and instead of being 6-6, they are 5-7 or maybe 4-8 worst case. He simply isn't that influential of a player IMO.

You take Rodgers off the Packers or Manning off the Broncos and those teams go from best in the league to winning only a handful of games. That makes them more valuable.

The time when a defensive player can influence a teams win total by a large margin has long since passed which makes them less valuable than an offensive player. The MVP will almost always justifiably go to an offensive player and a player like Watt wins the defensive player of the year.

Sounds like Carson Palmer may be the league MVP.

 

[ducky]

And one more point: JJ Watt has such a little impact on the game that the Texans defense even with him is one of the worst in the league.

You can't possibly give the MVP award to a defensive player who plays on a terrible defense on a team that isn't going to make the playoffs. Its ludicrous to even suggest he deserves it.

 

[night]

And one more point: JJ Watt has such a little impact on the game that the Texans defense even with him is one of the worst in the league.

You can't possibly give the MVP award to a defensive player who plays on a terrible defense on a team that isn't going to make the playoffs. Its ludicrous to even suggest he deserves it.

He has a few touchdowns as a tight end too.

 

[cdumler7]

He has a few touchdowns as a tight end too.

I was listening to an interview with a retired TE the other day and they were ticked that the Texans were doing that instead of just using their regular TE's. They viewed it as the team just working to hype up Watt more while not letting the actual players of that position do their job. They were not impressed. I will say though he has made a couple of nice catches playing the position but I can't imagine the TE's in that offense are too happy to come off the field just so he can get in there and catch a touchdown pass that otherwise would have went to them.

 

[night]

I was listening to an interview with a retired TE the other day and they were ticked that the Texans were doing that instead of just using their regular TE's. They viewed it as the team just working to hype up Watt more while not letting the actual players of that position do their job. They were not impressed. I will say though he has made a couple of nice catches playing the position but I can't imagine the TE's in that offense are too happy to come off the field just so he can get in there and catch a touchdown pass that otherwise would have went to them.

I would imagine someone who gets subbed out for a defensive lineman isn't one of the better tight ends in the league. It kind tells you their TE situation stinks.

 

[cdumler7]

I would imagine someone who gets subbed out for a defensive lineman isn't one of the better tight ends in the league. It kind tells you their TE situation stinks.

It is true...I would think though they would want to find a way to get their 3rd round TE they drafted involved. You don't usually use that high of a draft pick on a guy that is just going to sit on the bench most of the year especially when you are at the time considered one of the worst teams in the league. So to me I am a bit surprised that they are going with Watt more than the TE's especially when like in this last game the team was winning big time so there is no reason to put Watt in and risk injury in my opinion. Perfect time to break in a rookie.

 

[TDs3nOut]

WATT??? Burning Out On The JJ Hype | NFL | SportsHoopla.com

I think you make a good case for why Watt might not be a legitimate candidate for MVP. Also liked your point about JJ's TD overshadowing Hopkins' big day.

Only suggestion I have is that you might want to change your title, since "hype" doesn't seem exactly right to me. Maybe something to suggest that some fans could temper their perspective of Watt's play.

 

[LooseChange]

I get that but where's all the outcry for a RB that leads the team down the field to watch his back up come in and eat up the goal line carries? It's football and these men are paid professionals. Leave your feelings at the door. The coach couldn't care less if he's hurting a guys ego by pulling him for someone else. The coaches job is to put the team in the best position to succeed. JJ Watt playing TE has worked so far.

 

[cdumler7]

I get that but where's all the outcry for a RB that leads the team down the field to watch his back up come in and eat up the goal line carries? It's football and these men are paid professionals. Leave your feelings at the door. The coach couldn't care less if he's hurting a guys ego by pulling him for someone else. The coaches job is to put the team in the best position to succeed. JJ Watt playing TE has worked so far.

I get that but we are talking about a team that has a young player they drafted high just sitting on the bench and a situation where the team is up big no chance to lose the game and you stick your all-star player on the field on a play that he honestly doesn't need to be on the field for. If I am the coach I am saying "Watt thanks for a great game but if we are pushing for the playoffs and especially for next season we need this kid to get some time on the field to maximize his ability later on."

That is just the coach in me though knowing when you are up big that there is no better time to get the young guys involved and a chance to see what it feels like on the field. Because practice although great is not quite like being on the field in a game. Plus it helps those young guys stay more engaged in the game. And maybe the kid wasn't even active as I haven't looked for the game so maybe the point is moot but we all saw was it 2 years ago with Gronkowski where he went in on an extra point when the team was up big and broke his arm and missed significant time because of it. I just would rather limit those chances of my star player when the team is up big instead of just padding his stats.

 

[HammerDown]

Tox, I was listening to sports radio for a minute yesterday. It was Van Pelt and crew (I like those guys) and their upcoming segment was going to be "is JJ Watt the MVP?" I wasn't able to listen to it but would have been curious what they had to say.

 

[DutchBird]

If you don't think that Manning improves his teammates, frankly you're clueless. Compare the Broncos offensive numbers before Manning got there and after and it's not even close. Look at what Emmanuel Sanders did in Pittsburgh and compare that to what he's doing now. Look at the drop off in production from Eric Decker this season.

Please display some basic reading skills... please...

Nowhere did I say Manning does not (or did not) make the players around him better.

What I do so, and I stand by it, is that the difference Watt makes for his fellow players is greater this year than Manning does for the Broncos

The MVP should only go to a player on a playoff team. Why? Because what value did you add to your team if you didn't make the playoffs? Whether you win 8 games with Watt and miss the playoffs or you win 2 games with Watt and miss the playoffs, either way you missed the playoffs. Isn't the point to get in the playoffs?

Do you have any basic comprehension of what a TEAM game is all about? This is not basketball, or even baseball - games, especially basketball, that can easily be dominated by a single player.

The play-off argument is absolute BS. It's a made up criterium.

Basically it would be punishing top players for being on horrible teams. By using your argument, Watt could be destroying every single record there is this season, but because of the rest of the Texans being crap, he is ineligible for being MVP...

Hell, by your argument, if Ronaldo or Messi were put on Primera Division bottom-feeders, they would automatically become ineligible for MVP. Absolutely ludicrous.

Watt is a great player and the gap between him and the second best player at his position is probably bigger than any other position. But that doesn't make him the most valuable player. And if you don't think that's true, ask yourself this: if you put Aaron Rodgers on the Texans and take away Watt at the beginning of the season, would the Texans be better, worse, or about the same as they are now?

No idea (in many ways impossible to anwser question). But frankly, I would not be too sure the Texans would be better off...

 

[cdumler7]

Dutchbird what you have to remember though is look what happens to these teams when say Manning or Brady are not in the equation. They go from a playoff lock almost every single season to lucky to be 8-8. I mean the Colts when Manning was down were the worst team in the league. The year before with a very similar group were 10-6. So Manning alone you could argue was worth 8 wins. Hard to argue with that being of great value for a team. I don't think Watt does the same when you look at it that way.


The quarterbacks just have much more opportunity to impact the entire game. Defenses of course have to gameplan to stop them opening up the run game. The fact that they get rid of the ball quickly when passing means the OL looks much better than it really is. WR's seem to work their butts off just a bit more for these quarterbacks knowing they expect perfection. Heck Bronco coaches and FO people all talked about how the minute Manning walked in the door they all upped their game as they are all too afraid to fail him knowing how much he cares and how much work he puts into all of this. Not saying Watt doesn't do some of that but a quarterback just impacts the game a whole heck of a lot more than a DT/DE. They have a whole lot more to do with success and failure of a team.

 

[ducky]

What I do so, and I stand by it, is that the difference Watt makes for his fellow players is greater this year than Manning does for the Broncos

No way. Its not even close in fact.

With Manning the Broncos are a top tier offense where all the offensive players are putting up monster seasons. Without him they would be a bottom rung offense.

Without JJ Watt the Texans would be a bottom rung defense. With him they are still just a bottom rung defense.

Watt is not nearly the impact player that a lot of the people in the media would lead you to believe. A GREAT football player no doubt. But his presence on the field simply does not make the players around him better in anyway close to the level that Manning or any good QB make on offense.

Manning and Rodgers make their teams one of the top passing offenses in the league (and also greatly help the run game) whereas they would be near the bottom without them. If Watt was nearly as impactful as some would have you believe, there is no way that the Texans would be currently ranked near the bottom of the league in yards allowed despite playing one of the easiest schedules that any defense has seen so far this year.

I don't see how this is even arguable.

 

[Broncos6482]

Please display some basic reading skills... please...

Nowhere did I say Manning does not (or did not) make the players around him better.

What I do so, and I stand by it, is that the difference Watt makes for his fellow players is greater this year than Manning does for the Broncos

You said, "And there is no doubt JJ Watt does so more than Manning or Rodgers - at least this year...." That's a crazy opinion not backed up by any facts. It's absurd. Again, compare Emmanuel Sanders this season to any season in Pittsburgh, or compare Decker the last two seasons to this season. It's a huge difference.

Do you have any basic comprehension of what a TEAM game is all about? This is not basketball, or even baseball - games, especially basketball, that can easily be dominated by a single player.

Do you have any basic comprehension of how important a great qb is in the NFL? Do you understand how important a qb is to a team's success? JJ Watt has been outstanding the last 3 seasons. Outstanding. The Texans record during those 3 seasons were 12-4, 2-14, and 6-6 so far this year. What was the difference? In 2012, Matt Schaub was a competent quarterback. He threw for 4,000 yards, completed 64% of his passes, and threw 22 touchdowns to 12 interceptions. In 2013, he (and those who eventually replaced him) were terrible. The Texans quarterbacks combined to throw for 4,000 yards again, but they only completed 58% of their passes and had 19 touchdowns against 22 interceptions (many of which were returned for touchdowns). So far this season, their quarterbacks have combined for 2,700 yards, a 61% completion percentage, and 19 touchdowns and 10 interceptions.

Funny, the qb has good numbers, the team wins more games. The qb stinks, the team loses more.

The play-off argument is absolute BS. It's a made up criterium.

Basically it would be punishing top players for being on horrible teams. By using your argument, Watt could be destroying every single record there is this season, but because of the rest of the Texans being crap, he is ineligible for being MVP...

Hell, by your argument, if Ronaldo or Messi were put on Primera Division bottom-feeders, they would automatically become ineligible for MVP. Absolutely ludicrous.

Why is that ludicrous? How much value did you add to your team if they missed the playoffs with you? I don't care how great you are, if they aren't a playoff team with you and they aren't a playoff team without you, you haven't really added much value to the team.

You want to make up an award for Most Outstanding Player? By all means, give that to Watt (or whatever irrelevant soccer players you want to talk about). But don't tell me the Most Valuable Player is the best player; it's not.

No idea (in many ways impossible to anwser question). But frankly, I would not be too sure the Texans would be better off..

Either you don't want to answer because it disproves your point, or you really don't know much about football. In case it's the latter, let inform you on football a little bit. The quarterback is far and away the most important player on the field. A bad one will drag the team down around him. A good one will mask flaws on your team. There just isn't a position on the team with that importance.

The Texans would be a much better team with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback, even if that meant they didn't have Watt.

 

[Broncos6482]

No way. Its not even close in fact.

With Manning the Broncos are a top tier offense where all the offensive players are putting up monster seasons. Without him they would be a bottom rung offense.

Without JJ Watt the Texans would be a bottom rung defense. With him they are still just a bottom rung defense.

Watt is not nearly the impact player that a lot of the people in the media would lead you to believe. A GREAT football player no doubt. But his presence on the field simply does not make the players around him better in anyway close to the level that Manning or any good QB make on offense.

Manning and Rodgers make their teams one of the top passing offenses in the league (and also greatly help the run game) whereas they would be near the bottom without them. If Watt was nearly as impactful as some would have you believe, there is no way that the Texans would be currently ranked near the bottom of the league in yards allowed despite playing one of the easiest schedules that any defense has seen so far this year.

I don't see how this is even arguable.

Great post. It's not arguable.

JJ Watt is an outstanding football player. What he's not is the Most Valuable Player.

 

[NEhomer]

Fuck Vajayjay Twatt.

.....that's all...carry on.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

You said, "And there is no doubt JJ Watt does so more than Manning or Rodgers - at least this year...." That's a crazy opinion not backed up by any facts. It's absurd. Again, compare Emmanuel Sanders this season to any season in Pittsburgh, or compare Decker the last two seasons to this season. It's a huge difference.




Do you have any basic comprehension of how important a great qb is in the NFL? Do you understand how important a qb is to a team's success? JJ Watt has been outstanding the last 3 seasons. Outstanding. The Texans record during those 3 seasons were 12-4, 2-14, and 6-6 so far this year. What was the difference? In 2012, Matt Schaub was a competent quarterback. He threw for 4,000 yards, completed 64% of his passes, and threw 22 touchdowns to 12 interceptions. In 2013, he (and those who eventually replaced him) were terrible. The Texans quarterbacks combined to throw for 4,000 yards again, but they only completed 58% of their passes and had 19 touchdowns against 22 interceptions (many of which were returned for touchdowns). So far this season, their quarterbacks have combined for 2,700 yards, a 61% completion percentage, and 19 touchdowns and 10 interceptions.

Funny, the qb has good numbers, the team wins more games. The qb stinks, the team loses more.



Why is that ludicrous? How much value did you add to your team if they missed the playoffs with you? I don't care how great you are, if they aren't a playoff team with you and they aren't a playoff team without you, you haven't really added much value to the team.

You want to make up an award for Most Outstanding Player? By all means, give that to Watt (or whatever irrelevant soccer players you want to talk about). But don't tell me the Most Valuable Player is the best player; it's not.




Either you don't want to answer because it disproves your point, or you really don't know much about football. In case it's the latter, let inform you on football a little bit. The quarterback is far and away the most important player on the field. A bad one will drag the team down around him. A good one will mask flaws on your team. There just isn't a position on the team with that importance.

The Texans would be a much better team with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback, even if that meant they didn't have Watt.

I agree with your post, but wanted to chime in on Sanders since I have keen knowledge there.

Yes, PM did make him better than Ben did, no doubt. Always hurt in PIT when he was the 3rd fiddle behind Wallace & A Brown. When he became the #2 option in PIT his #s made a big leap there...playing with PM and getting #1 WR type targets has really his numbers skyrocket.

Your point in bold there closes this debate imo.

 

[Broncos6482]

I agree with your post, but wanted to chime in on Sanders since I have keen knowledge there.

Yes, PM did make him better than Ben did, no doubt. Always hurt in PIT when he was the 3rd fiddle behind Wallace & A Brown. When he became the #2 option in PIT his #s made a big leap there...playing with PM and getting #1 WR type targets has really his numbers skyrocket.

Your point in bold there closes this debate imo.

Thanks for the info on Sanders. One other point on him is that Denver does throw it more than the Steelers, so that's going to help his numbers. However, what's interesting is that at this point in the season, Sanders has only 4 more targets than he did last season, yet he's caught 15 more passes for 412 more yards, one more touchdown, and 3 yards more per reception. I think that really illustrates just what can happen to a receiver going from a good qb to a great one.

 

[packerzrule]

Watt is a dynamic player indeed and I would vote for him as the Texan's MVP but not league MVP.

I would have been interesting to see however what kind of year he would have had if Clowney would have been healthy and in the lineup every week.