Umm, So what is so great about the T'Wolves right now???

[WiggyRuss]

It is ironic because I think if that same draft were made today, Jordan goes no lower than 2. Also, I am almost positive KD would have been selected over Oden.

Until very recently, it was widely believed that you needed dominate big men to win in the NBA and that perimeter play was a luxury. Today it is almost exactly the opposite. That is why I do think it was a big mistake taking Ayton and Bagley over Doncic.

While hindsight has proven MJ and KD to be far superior players, it is very easy to understand why the teams who passed did what they did.

So, how do you grade transactions?

how they ACTUALLY turn out?

or

the logic at the time the deal/draft pick/trade was made?

to me its obvious. Only one even makes PARTIAL sense. If not #1, then RW, by definition, was a bad draft pick.

 

[WiggyRuss]

If you can't tell the difference between the Blazers picking Bowie over MJ when they already had a Hall of Fame level SG on their team and the Thunder taking a chance on Westbrook. You can't be helped.

you are contradicting yourself.

you are using hindsight on one, and "the logic at the time" on the other.

 

[The Derski]

Why would anyone want to play for Thibodeau? Dude constantly berates everyone within a hundred feet of him, sweats profusely, and cares way too much about defense in a offensive league. The Wolves could’ve had one of the most exciting offenses in the league but ran like an engine that needed an oil change.

 

[trojanfan12]

you are contradicting yourself.

you are using hindsight on one, and "the logic at the time" on the other.

You should get a dictionary if you think I contradicted myself.

 

[tlance]

So, how do you grade transactions?

how they ACTUALLY turn out?

or

the logic at the time the deal/draft pick/trade was made?

to me its obvious. Only one even makes PARTIAL sense. If not #1, then RW, by definition, was a bad draft pick.

I think there is a middle ground. You obviously grade on how it turned out.

But, in the case of Oden vs. KD, Oden was the consensus #1 pick. I don't remember ANYBODY suggesting KD should have been taken first. When a GM gets that pick wrong, it is understandable because everyone thought the same thing.

Now, had Seattle taken Mike Conley over KD, then the GM would deserve to be fired. Because KD was the player most had slotted at 2. Similarly, while I would not have taken Ayton over Doncic, i don't think it is a disastrous mistake taking Ayton 1 even if Doncic ends up being the superstar of the class. Taking Bagley 2 though? That one is fireable if things turn out like I think they will.

 

[tlance]

you are contradicting yourself.

you are using hindsight on one, and "the logic at the time" on the other.

It has been 2 weeks, and you owe me 8K.

How we doing that?

 

[WiggyRuss]

It has been 2 weeks, and you owe me 8K.

How we doing that?

its a good question. I am not sure how that can be done...perhaps an illusory bet at the bookie?

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think there is a middle ground. You obviously grade on how it turned out.

But, in the case of Oden vs. KD, Oden was the consensus #1 pick. I don't remember ANYBODY suggesting KD should have been taken first. When a GM gets that pick wrong, it is understandable because everyone thought the same thing.

Now, had Seattle taken Mike Conley over KD, then the GM would deserve to be fired. Because KD was the player most had slotted at 2. Similarly, while I would not have taken Ayton over Doncic, i don't think it is a disastrous mistake taking Ayton 1 even if Doncic ends up being the superstar of the class. Taking Bagley 2 though? That one is fireable if things turn out like I think they will.

see this is what i dont buy...

who is "everyone"?

I think the Celtics pick Tatum #1 overall even though "everyone" had Fultz and Ball over him.

The GM's that actually know their shit, that follow their gut instead of relying on what "everyone" is saying should get their due credit.

And shit- if Sexton flops- Koby Altman should deserve a huge amount of the blame. He was the GM. THe buck stops there. He could have taken guys like Bridges or Knox etc...instead he took Sexton. Idont care if the "experts" or "everyone" or "most gm's" had him as a more highly rated player. Altman was hired to do a job- and his sorry excuse of doing that job is relying on what "everyone" is saying and using that as a fallback excuse then fire his ass right now.

 

[The Q]

It is ironic because I think if that same draft were made today, Jordan goes no lower than 2. Also, I am almost positive KD would have been selected over Oden.

Until very recently, it was widely believed that you needed dominate big men to win in the NBA and that perimeter play was a luxury. Today it is almost exactly the opposite. That is why I do think it was a big mistake taking Ayton and Bagley over Doncic.

While hindsight has proven MJ and KD to be far superior players, it is very easy to understand why the teams who passed did what they did.

Threre's still nothing more valuable than a dominant big man who can control the paint.

A shaq, a Robinson. Those guys are premium in any era.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Threre's still nothing more valuable than a dominant big man who can control the paint.

A shaq, a Robinson. Those guys are premium in any era.

yah sure if you are a top 20 player of all time like those guys are just about. lol.

 

[Mebert]

After a over hundred comments it is safe to say that nothing is great about the Twolves right now, and nobody thinks so. Perhaps the Wolves can get the Kings to take on Wiggins Salary and send back Randolph or Shumpert or whatever. Some reason the Hawks take Dieng for Dedmon. Teague opts out of his massive contract next offseason when he forgets he is at best a replacement level player. Butler leaves. Thibs gets fired from 100% of everything and Layden also gets the boot.

Those few things happen and the Wolves can go back to wasting lottery picks as God intended

 

[tlance]

I mean, thats obviously the only way you can do it.

anything else is colossally retarded.

Having a GM say "Well a ton of people thought JaMarcus Russell would have been good! It was good logic at the time!" is just pure abject stupidity.

Yeah.

It also depends on the level of flop. Sam Bowie was a good NBA player until he started getting hurt. Kwame Brown and Anthony Bennett just flat sucked. Can't redeem that.

But, it is unfair to say Dallas made a mistake taking DSJ over Donovan Mitchell. Mitchell is the better player, but DSJ is still pretty good and was rated higher.

With the Ainge/Tatum point, I guess I would rather praise Ainge for being right than blast everyone else for being wrong. But that is just me.

 

[tlance]

its a good question. I am not sure how that can be done...perhaps an illusory bet at the bookie?

I will try to find out. I am sure there is an easy way.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah.

It also depends on the level of flop. Sam Bowie was a good NBA player until he started getting hurt. Kwame Brown and Anthony Bennett just flat sucked. Can't redeem that.

But, it is unfair to say Dallas made a mistake taking DSJ over Donovan Mitchell. Mitchell is the better player, but DSJ is still pretty good and was rated higher.

With the Ainge/Tatum point, I guess I would rather praise Ainge for being right than blast everyone else for being wrong. But that is just me.

one thing i dont understand though is, who is "everyone" , who are the "experts"--- who are the people that make it feel like before the draft even started that Donovan Mitchell should go long after Lonzo Ball?

There are only 30 GM's in the league. If they are taking the advice of so called "experts", and "everyone" etc. then why are they even in those jobs?

Who are these amorphous "everyone's" and "experts" that set draft boards and why do we think that GM's should listen to them? and further- like you said above- why should the GM's derive cover from what "everyone" is saying?

 

[tlance]

one thing i dont understand though is, who is "everyone" , who are the "experts"--- who are the people that make it feel like before the draft even started that Donovan Mitchell should go long after Lonzo Ball?

There are only 30 GM's in the league. If they are taking the advice of so called "experts", and "everyone" etc. then why are they even in those jobs?

Who are these amorphous "everyone's" and "experts" that set draft boards and why do we think that GM's should listen to them? and further- like you said above- why should the GM's derive cover from what "everyone" is saying?

The experts are GMs and people with GM caliber credentials.

I don't think GMs should listen. They absolutely need to do their own work. But, if a GM arrives at the same incorrect conclusion most other GMs do, then you can only be but so upset.

 

[tlance]

Threre's still nothing more valuable than a dominant big man who can control the paint.

A shaq, a Robinson. Those guys are premium in any era.

Honestly, that isn't true.

Rules are different. It is easier to guard the post and harder for post players like Shaq to guard modern offense. Robinson and Hakeem would be just as valuable, maybe even more so today. Shaq not so much. He would still be the first pick, but he just wouldn't be as dominant.

 

[Mebert]

The experts are GMs and people with GM caliber credentials.

I don't think GMs should listen. They absolutely need to do their own work. But, if a GM arrives at the same incorrect conclusion most other GMs do, then you can only be but so upset.

If you can't trust Kevin Mchale or David Kahn who can you trust?

 

[tlance]

its a good question. I am not sure how that can be done...perhaps an illusory bet at the bookie?

I posted @ the SportsHoopla bookie and put you on there too.

 

[The Q]

Honestly, that isn't true.

Rules are different. It is easier to guard the post and harder for post players like Shaq to guard modern offense. Robinson and Hakeem would be just as valuable, maybe even more so today. Shaq not so much. He would still be the first pick, but he just wouldn't be as dominant.

i dont' know.

Shaq might actually get more foul calls in today's era.

 

[tlance]

i dont' know.

Shaq might actually get more foul calls in today's era.

Maybe. I don't know about that.

What I do know is that modern rules make it much easier to double the post and his defensive weaknesses would be exploited guarding pick and roll.

He would still be a great player, no doubt about that, but I do not think he would be quite as impactful. Even in his prime.