Top 10 players of all time

[y2ktors]

Jerry West should be there someplace, probably instead of Kidd.

West was a 2-guard.

 

[y2ktors]

What's your guys rankings for top 4 PGs of all time?

Magic
Big O
Stockton
Walt Clyde

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Dude averaged a triple-double one season. Came very close in a couple of others. Say what you want about inflated numbers, but he was no doubt one of the best of that era. Oscar would be successful in any era.

I have posted a thread with era adjusted stats and it was no where near a triple double. He was great though.

 

[lakersrule]

I have posted a thread with era adjusted stats and it was no where near a triple double. He was great though.

Fact is, Oscar averaged a triple-double one season. Your era adjusted stats mean nothing.

 

[y2ktors]

I have posted a thread with era adjusted stats and it was no where near a triple double. He was great though.

I get what you are saying. But it's a double-edged sword. What Oscar did in 1961-62 is an anomaly. That's what makes it as great of an accomplishment. Hundreds of players played in that era but only one man accomplished this feat.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Fact is, Oscar averaged a triple-double one season. Your era adjusted stats mean nothing.

Yeah those stats are like unicorns...:rollseyes:

Here it is if you care to look:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ame68dstirBmdFR5dFhINUVYZlRfX3lMcDBKZmI2YlE#gid=0


Explanation here:

Statistical reference is useful but difficult to interpret. The game was played at a breakneck pace, and per game stats were very high while shooting percentages were woefully low. To that end I’ve undertaken a brutal (for me) endeavor to modernize the box score stats of the very best players from 1960-69 by factoring pace, effective field goal percentage differential, and rebound rate.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

I get what you are saying. But it's a double-edged sword. What Oscar did in 1961-62 is an anomaly. That's what makes it as great of an accomplishment. Hundreds of players played in that era but only one man accomplished this feat.

This is a great point if it is true. I am googling stats of the 1960s and I know there is at least one player with similar stats but even if it is 1 or even just 3 others it is still an anomaly. Either way, great point.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Ok, going off the spread sheet link I posted they have some great names on it and Big O is 3rd best IMO in that decade. I would take Wilt and Russell ahead of him but those 2 are easily top 10 so being behind them gives him plenty of room to be in the top 10. A lot of people put a lot of emphasis on hardware though so that has to drop him.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Says Oscar Robertson Better Than Jordan, LeBron | Lakers Nation

that link is a glaring endorsement but I question his bias in the matter, having never played with LBJ and barely with MJ, but I trust his opinion a lot more than MJs, that is for sure.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Ok, going off the spread sheet link I posted they have some great names on it and Big O is 3rd best IMO in that decade. I would take Wilt and Russell ahead of him but those 2 are easily top 10 so being behind them gives him plenty of room to be in the top 10. A lot of people put a lot of emphasis on hardware though so that has to drop him.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Says Oscar Robertson Better Than Jordan, LeBron | Lakers Nation

that link is a glaring endorsement but I question his bias in the matter, having never played with LBJ and barely with MJ, but I trust his opinion a lot more than MJs, that is for sure.

And I trust Magic more than Kareem...

[YOUTUBE]http://W_DJjYw9R-w[/YOUTUBE]

2:11

 

[piss-tons]

Yeah those stats are like unicorns...:rollseyes:

Here it is if you care to look:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ame68dstirBmdFR5dFhINUVYZlRfX3lMcDBKZmI2YlE#gid=0


Explanation here:

Statistical reference is useful but difficult to interpret. The game was played at a breakneck pace, and per game stats were very high while shooting percentages were woefully low. To that end I’ve undertaken a brutal (for me) endeavor to modernize the box score stats of the very best players from 1960-69 by factoring pace, effective field goal percentage differential, and rebound rate.

The problem back then was the quantity of shots were much more important than the quality of the shot. That is why there were so many shots and fg percentage for that era was low. Today the pace is slowed down and there is a play basically every possession. So now fg percentage is much higher but pace is MUCH slower. You cant just simply adjust it doesn't work. You really can't compare an era that was so different.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

And I trust Magic more than Kareem...

[YOUTUBE]http://W_DJjYw9R-w[/YOUTUBE]

2:11

You are the first person on these boards to put stock in what Magic says, literally the first.

The problem back then was the quantity of shots were much more important than the quality of the shot. That is why there were so many shots and fg percentage for that era was low. Today the pace is slowed down and there is a play basically every possession. So now fg percentage is much higher but pace is MUCH slower. You cant just simply adjust it doesn't work. You really can't compare an era that was so different.

If you read the fine print that is all factored in. Basically he weighed the stats as of how much an anomaly that it was for the time and used that to adjust the stats. The common denominator was each player's own era and thus shot quality was an adjusted factor as well.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

NBA Players Pick Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant to Take Last Shot Over LeBron | Bleacher Report




And cue "Thant doesn't mean anything." from bot in 3...2...1...

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

How about Bobby Knight? Dickie V? Kobe? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUwitHvclwc]Kobe Bryant says Michael Jordan is the Greatest ever at 50 Must Watch - YouTube[/ame]

How about Lebron? Says it three times with no hesitation. LeBron says three greatest NBA players: Jordan, Dr. J, Bird (VIDEO) | ProBasketballTalk

They all think it too...

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Pippen..

Pippen says Jordan is the greatest


Posted Jun 24 2011 7:00PM

CHICAGO (AP) -- Scottie Pippen made it clear he thinks Michael Jordan is the best player ever - not LeBron James.

Speaking to reporters at a youth camp in suburban Lisle on Friday, Pippen says he was simply giving "LeBron some props as a player" when he suggested to ESPN radio last month that James could be better than Jordan.

Pippen says "all know that (Jordan's) the greatest player that ever played the game" and that his comments were taken "a little bit out of context."

Jordan's running mate as the Bulls won six championships in the 1990s, Pippen caused quite a stir last month after the Heat beat Chicago in the Eastern Conference finals.

A team ambassador, he told ESPN radio, that while Jordan "is probably the greatest scorer," James "may be the greatest player to ever play the game."

Those that know, know...

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Well done, you found a few people who think that MJ is the GOAT. Give me Kareem every time. 1 on 1, to start a franchise, and as the GOAT. His level of dominance and length of effectiveness is unmatched, and the stats and hardware show it.

Also the very article you posted has a whole thread dedicated to that survey.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Well done, you found a few people who think that MJ is the GOAT. Give me Kareem every time. 1 on 1, to start a franchise, and as the GOAT. His level of dominance and length of effectiveness is unmatched, and the stats and hardware show it.

Also the very article you posted has a whole thread dedicated to that survey.

Please show me one anything that has Kareem as the GOAT. Would love to see it. Or is that just your gut telling you that?...

 

[y2ktors]

Well done, you found a few people who think that MJ is the GOAT. Give me Kareem every time. 1 on 1, to start a franchise, and as the GOAT. His level of dominance and length of effectiveness is unmatched, and the stats and hardware show it.

Also the very article you posted has a whole thread dedicated to that survey.

Kareem definitely has a case for GOAT. But the biggest flaws in his resume are:

-best years pre-merger
-10 Finals trips: 2 FMVPs
-missing the playoffs multiple times in the prime of his career

 

[Crotchrocker]

1) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 6 rings, 6 MVP's and impossible to keep from scoring.
2) Michael Jordan - 6 rings, 5 MVP's and the greatest scoring/defending slasher ever.
3) Bill Russell - 11 rings, 5 MVP's and the greatest defender/winner/leader ever.
4) Larry Bird - 3 rings, 3 MVP's and the greatest all-around forward to ever play.
5) Magic Johnson - 5 rings, 3 MVP's and the most versatile player ever.
6) Wilt Chamberlain - 2 rings, 4 MVP's and most dominant record-holder.
7) Lebron James - 2 rings, 4 MVP's and in his prime with no end in sight.
8) Oscar Robertson - 1 ring and most complete basketball player ever.
9) Shaquille O'Neal - 4 rings, 1 MVP and most unstoppable force ever in the paint.
10) Tim Duncan - 4 rings, 2 MVP's and most consistent big man ever.

There are snubs. Here are some of them:

Isiah Thomas - 2 rings and greatest competitor inch for inch ever.
Julius Erving - He only won 1 ring and 1 MVP in the NBA but was the GOAT of the ABA also.
Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 rings, 1 MVP and the greatest defender/post scorer in the modern era.
John Havlicek - 8 rings and possibly the greatest hustle player/6th man to ever lace them up.
Jerry West - Mr. Clutch finally got the ring he deserved. Greatest jumper ever.
Moses Malone - Most underrated player of all-time. Outstanding scorer and dominant rebounder.

Word.

 

[Crotchrocker]

Top Five All-Time By Position:

Center: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon
Power Forward: Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Kevin McHale, Dirk Nowitzki and Dennis Rodman
Small Forward: Larry Bird, Lebron James, Julius Erving, John Havlicek and Scottie Pippen
Shooting Guard: Michael Jordan, Jerry West, Kobe Bryant, Clyde Drexler and Dwayne Wade
Point Guard: Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, Walt Frazier and Jason Kidd

Riddle: What do Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Elgin Baylor, George Gervin, Allen Iverson, Steve Nash, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Dominique Wilkins and Kevin Durant all have in common?

Word.

 

[Crotchrocker]

Looking back, I may have to actually move Drexler ahead of Kobe because he was pretty much as good a scorer and defender but he was a better passer, rebounder and teammate. Word.