Soooo.....Michigan State

[Deep Creek]

I know this isn't surprising to most of you, but I'll finally admit I am old and out of touch. I have some questions regarding this quote.

..."Lauren Allswede, who left the university in 2015 over frustrations about how administrators handled sexual assault cases, told Outside the Lines that MSU administrators' entire approach to such cases has been misguided for years. The biggest issue? Complaints involving athletes were routinely investigated and handled by athletic director Hollis' department, and sometimes even coaches, she says."

If it is a complaint involving a violation of law, why would the athletic department even be involved in investigating the complaint? Last I checked, athletic department staff don't have any authority to arrest anyone even if their investigation found them guilty. Law enforcement has that authority.

Who investigates these type complaints at other universities?

 

[OregonDucks]

Can someone tell me why it seems to be so hard to treat others with respect? Jesus H Christ. These pompous assholes don't understand that no means no.

 

[OregonDucks]

I know this isn't surprising to most of you, but I'll finally admit I am old and out of touch. I have some questions regarding this quote.

..."Lauren Allswede, who left the university in 2015 over frustrations about how administrators handled sexual assault cases, told Outside the Lines that MSU administrators' entire approach to such cases has been misguided for years. The biggest issue? Complaints involving athletes were routinely investigated and handled by athletic director Hollis' department, and sometimes even coaches, she says."

If it is a complaint involving a violation of law, why would the athletic department even be involved in investigating the complaint? Last I checked, athletic department staff don't have any authority to arrest anyone even if their investigation found them guilty. Law enforcement has that authority.

Who investigates these type complaints at other universities?

Um, well you can fire them.

 

[OregonDucks]

I would be absolutely fine with Dantionio getting out of the sports world, for one reason being I never know if it's Dantonio or Dantoni.

 

[Deep Creek]

Um, well you can fire them.

Yeah...and once they are arrested and in the pokie they can't work for you anyway!

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

I know this isn't surprising to most of you, but I'll finally admit I am old and out of touch. I have some questions regarding this quote.

..."Lauren Allswede, who left the university in 2015 over frustrations about how administrators handled sexual assault cases, told Outside the Lines that MSU administrators' entire approach to such cases has been misguided for years. The biggest issue? Complaints involving athletes were routinely investigated and handled by athletic director Hollis' department, and sometimes even coaches, she says."

If it is a complaint involving a violation of law, why would the athletic department even be involved in investigating the complaint? Last I checked, athletic department staff don't have any authority to arrest anyone even if their investigation found them guilty. Law enforcement has that authority.

Who investigates these type complaints at other universities?

This is where things get tricky when dealing with students and specifically student-athletes. If a garden variety student is accused then the Department of Student Affairs will get in involved. ( I am trying to use generic terms for the departments because I know they vary from school to school, but you probably get my point). When it is a student-athlete the athletic department has "jurisdiction". Ultimately all public universities and most private schools have a Title IX Department which is Federally mandated to oversee equality and policy for minority students. But still, they are a "school department" and not legal authorities.

If there is a criminal act then the authorities should also be notified by all school departments and they conduct their own investigation which has the legal teeth. I think that is the heart of the problem here. Not notifying the proper legal authorities, hence the allegations of a cover-up by MSU. Which, day by day allegation becomes less appropriate and replaced by confirmed.

 

[OregonDucks]

Yeah...and once they are arrested and in the pokie they can't work for you anyway!

So that story with the MSU bball assistant coach, the one who hit the girl at the bar. There were witnesses, he even got arrested but that assault charge was dropped. I don't know if that was because of a court deal or the woman decided to drop the charge, nonetheless, the douche bag did it. Why in the hell would you keep a guy like that around?

Putting aside the epic douchebaggery and being a jackass, as a head coach having that coach on your team you want that guy going into recruits living rooms trying to sell your program? You want that coach as a mentor to 18-22 year olds? Then we all get shocked when the players do the same thing? Hmmmm.

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

I just re-watched Dantonio's press conference from yesterday and he is not coming off as very convincing IMO. He made comments about this being new ground for he and his staff, yet this was going on during his tenure. And the "we are re-centering" as an athletic department? What does that mean?

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

So that story with the MSU bball assistant coach, the one who hit the girl at the bar. There were witnesses, he even got arrested but that assault charge was dropped. I don't know if that was because of a court deal or the woman decided to drop the charge, nonetheless, the douche bag did it. Why in the hell would you keep a guy like that around?

Putting aside the epic douchebaggery and being a jackass, as a head coach having that coach on your team you want that guy going into recruits living rooms trying to sell your program? You want that coach as a mentor to 18-22 year olds? Then we all get shocked when the players do the same thing? Hmmmm.

Kudos to the G-League team that suspended him. At least they are doing something

 

[OregonDucks]

I just re-watched Dantonio's press conference from yesterday and he is not coming off as very convincing IMO. He made comments about this being new ground for he and his staff, yet this was going on during his tenure. And the "we are re-centering" as an athletic department? What does that mean?

Because he is lying. The report from OTL shows that his players have been accused of this before, a few times in the past.

 

[Deep Creek]

So that story with the MSU bball assistant coach, the one who hit the girl at the bar. There were witnesses, he even got arrested but that assault charge was dropped. I don't know if that was because of a court deal or the woman decided to drop the charge, nonetheless, the douche bag did it. Why in the hell would you keep a guy like that around?

Putting aside the epic douchebaggery and being a jackass, as a head coach having that coach on your team you want that guy going into recruits living rooms trying to sell your program? You want that coach as a mentor to 18-22 year olds? Then we all get shocked when the players do the same thing? Hmmmm.

A sensible person wouldn't unless the original accusation was totally bogus. If it had any legitimacy at all, he should be gone IMHO. Is that assistant still on staff?

 

[OregonDucks]

A sensible person wouldn't unless the original accusation was totally bogus. If it had any legitimacy at all, he should be gone IMHO. Is that assistant still on staff?

It sounded like he was not fired or let go after it. I think he may still be on staff or he was on staff for quiet a while afterward, but I am not 100% sure.

 

[Deep Creek]

If there is a criminal act then the authorities should also be notified by all school departments and they conduct their own investigation which has the legal teeth. I think that is the heart of the problem here. Not notifying the proper legal authorities, hence the allegations of a cover-up by MSU. Which, day by day allegation becomes less appropriate and replaced by confirmed.

I know from my experience as a school administrator in Texas that not notifying the proper legal authorities is a Code of Ethics violation and grounds for dismissal for lack of due diligence.

All you legal eagles. Is it against the law (or a crime) for not reporting illegal activities to the authorities? I'm sure it is grounds for termination of employment, but is it grounds for criminal charges to be filed? (We know civil suits are coming.)

 

[Edonidd]

There's a lot going on here. A lot of generalizations being made. A lot of jumping to conclusion. A lot of outrage. A lot of over reactions. A lot of actual wrong doing. A lot of blame to go around. I don't know what to make of it all yet.

I do hate when people act like (or in some cases actually believe) that just because an accusation is made something should be done. I just watched the OTL thing for the second time, they talk about Appling and Payne specifically. Payne cooperated with the police fully and was even recorded. The police didn't press charges. Later after further complaints the justice department, the department of education, and the NCAA all separately looked into the case to see if anything was wrong with the handling of the incident. Still no charges have ever been filed either against the players or against the university. But now Adrian Payne was just released from his paying job due to fear of being assciated with over reactions. (And because he isn't good)

Also they bring up 2 separate cases from 2017. Dantonio instantly kicked off the 4 players from the team. Then this former employee accuses Dantonio directly of being a liar, and covering up or refusing to act on charges. Pretty sure I don't believe this self-identified disgruntled former employee any further than i can throw her. But that also doesn't discredit everything she says, it just needs to be corroborated and investigated and taken with a grain of salt.

I just don't know what to make of it all. 2 weeks ago I would have said Izzo was the one guy of all the major basketball powerhouse HoF coaches that I trusted most. Ahead of Coach K and way ahead of some of those guys you know are dirty but haven't found proof of yet. Now? I still want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but some of his statements regarding Nasser especially have kind of loaded the gun, took the safety off, and aimed it directly at his own foot...

Meant to put this here, not the other thread.

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

I know from my experience as a school administrator in Texas that not notifying the proper legal authorities is a Code of Ethics violation and grounds for dismissal for lack of due diligence.

All you legal eagles. Is it against the law (or a crime) for not reporting illegal activities to the authorities? I'm sure it is grounds for termination of employment, but is it grounds for criminal charges to be filed? (We know civil suits are coming.)

Not sure when it comes to students over the age of 18, but I am a school administrator and we are court mandated reporters. We are not only subject to potential ethics violations, we could lose our licenses and in extreme cases be subject to criminal charges

 

[Gatorchip]

Most B10 teams have 5hese issues it seems

 

[herky]

Most teams have 5hese issues it seems

fify

 

[Edonidd]

fify

Have you ever seen the statistics on r*pe/sexual assualt/abuse on college campuses? Every team I'm sure has issues.

 

[outofyourmind]

Has Michigan State closed their Football Operations yet.

Have you ever seen the statistics on r*pe/sexual assualt/abuse on college campuses? Every team I'm sure has issues.

Probably mirror real life I'm guessing.

 

[WizardHawk]

Have you ever seen the statistics on r*pe/sexual assualt/abuse on college campuses? Every team I'm sure has issues.

I get standing up for your school and it's always going to come across as a feeling of fan bias, but now is probably not the time going full homer given everything that has been coming out. Is there over reaction in the media and/or outside fans? Almost surely there is. There was for Penn State as well. Still better to be a lot more contrite and wait for everything to shake out.