Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[skinsdad62]

i think KC's mistakes are way way overblown . he is a good qb who pushes 5000yds passing a season . we shouldnt just let that walk and statistically his play is at all time level

 

[Sleepy T]

i think KC's mistakes are way way overblown . he is a good qb who pushes 5000yds passing a season . we shouldnt just let that walk and statistically his play is at all time level

If his mistakes have been overblown then it is fair to say his shortcomings have been fluffed too. I think there is some legitimate arguments from both sides. Some of you have said he put up big numbers despite having a running game and a defense...opposing defenses could run around with their hair on fire and drop plenty. I get that and can somewhat agree with that. Some of us (myself included) argue that his numbers are inflated because he threw the ball a million times a game to collectively one of the best receiving corps in the league.

I like Kirk Cousins. He is a good (not great) QB. But I'm with Scot, I just don't think he is the guy who is gonna take us to the promised land. He is Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, Tony Romo. He is not Brady, Manning, Bree's, Rodgers and never will be. If some of you are ready to throw an obscene amount of money and give him a ridiculous deal, then you better be prepared for it to possibly not work out as well.

 

[Sleepy T]

And speaking of SM, I think it's pretty weak that this thread was merged into this one. Completely different topic and one worth talking about on the side.

I have seen very little mention from the KC nutswingers as to why their "Greatest GM in the history of any sport any time in human Existence" Scot McLoughan would call out their boy like that? I'm interested because (if I recall) many of you said that SM was wanting to sign Kirk last year and that was a bit of sore spot between him and Dan/Allen. Am I wrong??

 

[deanpet21]

If his mistakes have been overblown then it is fair to say his shortcomings have been fluffed too. I think there is some legitimate arguments from both sides. Some of you have said he put up big numbers despite having a running game and a defense...opposing defenses could run around with their hair on fire and drop plenty. I get that and can somewhat agree with that. Some of us (myself included) argue that his numbers are inflated because he threw the ball a million times a game to collectively one of the best receiving corps in the league.

I like Kirk Cousins. He is a good (not great) QB. But I'm with Scot, I just don't think he is the guy who is gonna take us to the promised land. He is Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, Tony Romo. He is not Brady, Manning, Bree's, Rodgers and never will be. If some of you are ready to throw an obscene amount of money and give him a ridiculous deal, then you better be prepared for it to possibly not work out as well.

Good post. If KC wins this year and gets us into the playoffs the stats wont matter. Now the money issue is totally different. People on here who want to give the guy a blank check right now is ridiculous. I would let this season play out and talk about the long term deal next off season. I don't believe KC will sign a LTD before 7/15.

The contracts of Carr and Stafford will play a role but I don't think he signs long term this year.

 

[deanpet21]

And speaking of SM, I think it's pretty weak that this thread was merged into this one. Completely different topic and one worth talking about on the side.

I have seen very little mention from the KC nutswingers as to why their "Greatest GM in the history of any sport any time in human Existence" Scot McLoughan would call out their boy like that? I'm interested because (if I recall) many of you said that SM was wanting to sign Kirk last year and that was a bit of sore spot between him and Dan/Allen. Am I wrong??

You will never get these clowns to admit that.

 

[countryroads316]

Let's say they sign Cousins long term before the July deadline if he doesn't get us to the playoffs then it was a ton of wasted money

 

[Sportster 72]

And speaking of SM, I think it's pretty weak that this thread was merged into this one. Completely different topic and one worth talking about on the side.

I have seen very little mention from the KC nutswingers as to why their "Greatest GM in the history of any sport any time in human Existence" Scot McLoughan would call out their boy like that? I'm interested because (if I recall) many of you said that SM was wanting to sign Kirk last year and that was a bit of sore spot between him and Dan/Allen. Am I wrong??

Huh? I can't even make sense of this. I must be a KC nutswinger though. I have no clue what analogy you were trying to make about Cousins and SM.

 

[Sportster 72]

OK, let's talk about Cousins' growth as a QB. While there is no doubt that we all generally learn something new everyday, that does not apply here. Let's start with the belief that Kirk will learn from his mistakes and that is what some here are referring to in relation to that growth. Even if that holds true, those mistakes will likely be replaced by others, the game being what it is.

If that is not the reference point then let's try improving his ability to improvise when things break down. It is possible but highly unlikely as there has been little evidence of that thus far. This is especially noteworthy in big games where defenses are either near or in playoff form. If I had to compare him to another good Washington sports player, I would say that he is the Alex Ovechkin of Washington Football. Good during the season and not so much when the games mean more.

As mentioned, there is no more room to grow from a physical standpoint, so where does that leave us? Well, in the only other place that we can go in order to become more than mere qualified for the playoffs, and that's to use the Gibbs model i.e. strong team around average QB. It is after all, the only successful model that this team has ever known in the Super Bowl era. BTW: For those of you who want to argue that point, ask yourself, When it comes to great NFL QB's (not SB ) how many names will roll off of your tongues before you get to the names Theismann, Rypien or Williams?

I'll concede all of the accolades that you all have placed upon and earned by Kirk Cousins, and give you all an extra "best that we've had in many many years here" to boot...but honestly, all he's actually done is to be competent in a system that fits him. Some will say that this is downplaying Kirk, I disagree, What it is...is not overplaying him. It is, unfortunately, the one thing in life that we humans do when we come across the best that we've ever had, after not having much beforehand. While it's wonderful to imagine what he COULD become, I'll stick to what he currently is as a player, pretty good, and something that is emininently more easilly replaceable.

Should we keep him? Absolutely, but to me that's not likely at this point, especially if the organization is placing a value on him in line with their evaluation, and not what that market determines. (the Sm and Sty reference) If that's the case, he's on a one year rental. The interesting thing is, we all now know that Gruden has a system where the QB needs not be great, but just above average or better (I call it pretty good) which by chance is a double bonus for us. Let me finish by saying that I don't give a peanut filled shit if Dan Snyder offered him half ownership in the team in order to sign him, it's not my money, however if Kirk is not here beyond this upcoming year, the formula for finding his replacement has nothing to do with "elite," "super studdom" or the "next best thing" we don't have that in Kirk and it works the way that it does, why should we look for that in his replacement if the need arises?


SN to @Sportster.....N.E does not have nor had great defenses, you don't need that, their formula was and is simple, and as old as the game itself. It's called execution at a higher level than your opponents. Belichick demands it and will replace anyone who doesn't measure up. He comes from that Parcell's line which was part of the best division in the game's history. (NFCE) Yes it's old school, but it works every time. Couple that with a great front office and a extremely supportive owner and that's all to it. Funny that the current mindset is to look for this or that in a player or players that will take them into the playoffs and beyond when the championship standard has been and remains...... high level execution. Doc (Walker) often relays stories of them lining up and telling their opponents which play was coming, whether that's just another storied retelling or true, fact was, when they executed properly, nobody stopped them or beat the defense.

Can we please put this in X's and O's and not make it a Dr. Phil post?

 

[deanpet21]

Huh? I can't even make sense of this. I must be a KC nutswinger though. I have no clue what analogy you were trying to make about Cousins and SM.

b/c a lot of people on here said that Sm wanted the long term deal with KC but that wasn't true. They blamed Allen for not giving Kc the long term deal last year.

 

[Stymietee]

Can we please put this in X's and O's and not maggre
r. Phil post?

Sure, just as long as you don't bring up his mental growth as a way of moving away from your assertion that the salary cap or lack thereof has something to do with evaluating players.
Of course he'll learn from his mistakes, and those mistakes will get replaced by others. In the aggregate, he is what he is. Nothing more, nothing less to be gained or loss.

 

[Sportster 72]

Sure, just as long as you don't bring up his mental growth as a way of moving away from your assertion that the salary cap or lack thereof has something to do with evaluating players. I have no idea what you are saying here.

Of course he'll learn from his mistakes, and those mistakes will get replaced by others. In the aggregate, he is what he is. Nothing more, nothing less to be gained or loss. We will have to agree to disagree, you have no basis for saying he won't or can't improve. You have an opinion which you are certainly entitled to but you cannot know what you said is true. Really either can I. I can only assume that most of us progress, get smarter with age. Notice I said MOST.

 

[skinsdad62]

dean you are so full of shit i dont know where to begin . so i will have you go back and find any damn post , from anyone proclaiming KC deserves a blank check find one then you can use that BS phrase you are fond of using otherwise its just propaganda

there have been rumors about who likes KC and who does not for months . now why cant it be the SM wanted him to be signed early on for a decent amount for 3 years as reported and because he thinks KC has reached his potential he wanted only 3 years ? duh ?

and since when does 2 years determine who is what and when ? this team isnt a perenial contender yet. its a team that hovers around 500. . i dont buy the recievers are carrying him crap either . i believe its mutual on both parties

 

[deanpet21]

dean you are so full of shit i dont know where to begin . so i will have you go back and find any damn post , from anyone proclaiming KC deserves a blank check find one then you can use that BS phrase you are fond of using otherwise its just propaganda

there have been rumors about who likes KC and who does not for months . now why cant it be the SM wanted him to be signed early on for a decent amount for 3 years as reported and because he thinks KC has reached his potential he wanted only 3 years ? duh ?

and since when does 2 years determine who is what and when ? this team isnt a perenial contender yet. its a team that hovers around 500. . i dont buy the recievers are carrying him crap either . i believe its mutual on both parties

Im not searching for posts but when the rumor came out that KC wanted a huge LTD a lot of people were on board. The reason was sign him to whatever he wants b/c we have no one else. Remember that??


You are trying to tell me that no one said Sm wanted to sign KC long term and Allen/Dan didn't want to do it? You bashed Allen with multiple posts on the handling of KC. Fact is that SM and Allen were on the same page about KC all along. So all of your bashing Allen posts just blew up in your face. You are totally wrong on this matter. Many people on here think we are handling the KC situation fine but you and others continue the attack those posters.

 

[Sleepy T]

there have been rumors about who likes KC and who does not for months . now why cant it be the SM wanted him to be signed early on for a decent amount for 3 years as reported and because he thinks KC has reached his potential he wanted only 3 years ? duh ?

and i dont buy the recievers are carrying him crap either . i believe its mutual on both parties

Ok...so let me get this straight.. The great SM wanted to sign KC (a guy who he doesn't think is the answer) one year ago, short term, probably at a discount, and that's ok??? He still doesn't think he is gonna get any better despite a stellar year with statistics through the roof.

But it's not OK that the rest of the FO, Allen, and Dan has basically proven thats the same deal they are looking for??? They are basically getting ridiculed and butchered for playing hardball but it's ok if Scot fucking Mcloughan wants To??

 

[skinsdad62]

Im not searching for posts but when the rumor came out that KC wanted a huge LTD a lot of people were on board. The reason was sign him to whatever he wants b/c we have no one else. Remember that??


You are trying to tell me that no one said Sm wanted to sign KC long term and Allen/Dan didn't want to do it? You bashed Allen with multiple posts on the handling of KC. Fact is that SM and Allen were on the same page about KC all along. So all of your bashing Allen posts just blew up in your face. You are totally wrong on this matter. Many people on here think we are handling the KC situation fine but you and others continue the attack those posters.

No I am not. I am fully aware of the reports and who supported them myself included .

And Allen deserves the bashing he has taken in regards to his handling of the KC. Negotiations .
Because apparently he has / had final say all along

It appears that Allen killed the 3 year deal when the chance was there to get bit done

What I and everyone else is taking you to task on is your constant lies or misrepresentations about anyone advocating blank checks in regards to his signings

You won't. Search back on previous posts because you damn well know no one has ever uttered such a thing you pushed that false narrative

 

[skinsdad62]

Ok...so let me get this straight.. The great SM wanted to sign KC (a guy who he doesn't think is the answer) one year ago, short term, probably at a discount, and that's ok??? He still doesn't think he is gonna get any better despite a stellar year with statistics through the roof.

But it's not OK that the rest of the FO, Allen, and Dan has basically proven thats the same deal they are looking for??? They are basically getting ridiculed and butchered for playing hardball but it's ok if Scot fucking Mcloughan wants To??

Short answer is he had a deal set up and it as shot down . And it I still the organization. Big time

 

[Sharkinva]

Im curious as to how many will be silently pulling for Cousins to fail miserably.

Because if he plays on the tag, there are only 4 likely outcomes.

1. He tanks, the team finishes miserably and we are in a position to draft the next messiah.

2. He regresses, but the team still finsihes around 8-8, the next Messiah will then be very costly to get

3. He stays about the same, the team finishes with around 10 wins, and we are basically in the same position.

4. He improves, the team still finishes with around 10 wins, and we are basically stuck with paying him even more money or watching him walk.

Only one of these plays out well for the team, but then it would mean we sucked badly. So how many of you will be hoping for the team to fail is the question??

 

[Sleepy T]

Im curious as to how many will be silently pulling for Cousins to fail miserably.

I hope we sign him and KC succeeds, I really do. I think he could give us a lot of good years and some playoff wins, hell maaaaybe even a Super Bowl IF he has ALOT of good players around him and an above average defense. Thing is...paying him a shit ton of money and being able to build that kind of roster at the same time will not be easy. Special quarterbacks get paid that kind of money, put an average team on their back and carry their asses to the Lombardi Trophy. I just don't think KC is that guy. Never will be IMO.

Best case scenario for us is that we sign him NOW...on a reasonable long term deal. I don't anyone has used the term blank check skinsdad. But some have pretty well said do what it takes to get the deal done. Which probably means making him the highest paid player in the NFL...TODAY..25 Mill APY minimum, 80 mill guaranteed minimum. That my friend is basically signing a blank check.

And this is what KC wants. He and his agent are playing us like a fucking fiddle. Are we still low balling him?? Possibly. But he is butthurt and feels disrespected because we don't want to give him the richest contract in history because he has had one or maybe two decent seasons?? Said it before, I think short of that contract he is willing to roll the dice and get even MORE money next year. That's the card he is playing. That's the way it looks to me. If that is truly the case then he can kick rocks. JMHO

 

[gkekoa]

I hope we sign him and KC succeeds, I really do. I think he could give us a lot of good years and some playoff wins, hell maaaaybe even a Super Bowl IF he has ALOT of good players around him and an above average defense. Thing is...paying him a shit ton of money and being able to build that kind of roster at the same time will not be easy. Special quarterbacks get paid that kind of money, put an average team on their back and carry their asses to the Lombardi Trophy. I just don't think KC is that guy. Never will be IMO.

Best case scenario for us is that we sign him NOW...on a reasonable long term deal. I don't anyone has used term blank check skinsdad. But some have pretty well said do what it takes to get the deal done. Which probably means making him the highest paid player in the NFL...TODAY..25 Mill APY minimum, 80 mill guaranteed minimum. That my friend is basically writing a blank check.

Actually, those contracts are not for the elite. Andrew Luck is getting that kind of money. There are plenty of QBs in that ball park and are not as good as KC.

 

[Sharkinva]

I hope we sign him and KC succeeds, I really do. I think he could give us a lot of good years and some playoff wins, hell maaaaybe even a Super Bowl IF he has ALOT of good players around him and an above average defense. Thing is...paying him a shit ton of money and being able to build that kind of roster at the same time will not be easy. Special quarterbacks get paid that kind of money, put an average team on their back and carry their asses to the Lombardi Trophy. I just don't think KC is that guy. Never will be IMO.

Best case scenario for us is that we sign him NOW...on a reasonable long term deal. I don't anyone has used term blank check skinsdad. But some have pretty well said do what it takes to get the deal done. Which probably means making him the highest paid player in the NFL...TODAY..25 Mill APY minimum, 80 mill guaranteed minimum. That my friend is basically writing a blank check.

Two things I will point out.

1. Even last year Kirk and his agent were basing guaranteed money off of the total of the tag, plus the following years tag. So in effect last year they were asking for $44-50M in Guaranteed money. Off of the same premise, they are now asking for $56M in guarantee at a minimum, and it CAN go up from there.

2. I dont think its nearly as hard to build a team even carrying that number with the way the new cap rules are set up. For fuck sake the Browns just ATE $17M in cap space in order to buy a 2nd round pick for a guy they didnt even sign, and who they might not even keep.

So again I think the real beef is Kirk just isnt exciting enough, and he might never be that guy who will carry the team. Money is being used as the excuse to continue to chase the next elite QB. Odds are not in our favor, and to be honest I think a few of the guys being considered elite (Wilson and Prescott in particular) are more a product of being exactly what we are not willing to accept from Kirk. Above average QBs surrounded by extremely talented teams.