prospect update for dummies

[_phiLLies_]

maybe this will help anyone who doesn't comprehend how important depth is or how to run a team, but wants to be an armchair GM.

MLB.com has thompson, williams and alfaro ranked #3, 4, 5 in the phils system.. only behind crawford and nola. considering nola is up and will stay up, you can bump all of them 1 spot higher.

pivetta, eichhoff and tirado are ranked #13, 14, 15. they are one spot behind lively and ahead of guys like windle and biddle. asher is ranked #24, a couple spots above severino gonzalez.

top 100 wise.. thompson is ranked #60, williams #64 and alfaro #69.

so we traded hamels, diekman, revere and papelbon (basically hamels in terms of actual need) for six guys who now represent our top 15, seven in our top 24 and three in baseball's top 69.

 

[TheSnowdog]

maybe this will help anyone who doesn't comprehend how important depth is or how to run a team, but wants to be an armchair GM.

MLB.com has thompson, williams and alfaro ranked #3, 4, 5 in the phils system.. only behind crawford and nola. considering nola is up and will stay up, you can bump all of them 1 spot higher.

But they suck

pivetta, eichhoff and tirado are ranked #13, 14, 15. they are one spot behind lively and ahead of guys like windle and biddle. asher is ranked #24, a couple spots above severino gonzalez.

But they suck

top 100 wise.. thompson is ranked #60, williams #64 and alfaro #69.

But they suck

so we traded hamels, diekman, revere and papelbon (basically hamels in terms of actual need) for six guys who now represent our top 15, seven in our top 24 and three in baseball's top 69.

But they suck

case closed

I feel I backed up my arguments very well - someone give me MapQuest directions to the Phillies GM office

 

[jvett77]

You like those low 2 digit prospect team numbers. Still, 70% of these guys will fade into nothingness. And it happens every year. Ultimately, there's only room for the really good guys. Who knows, though, maybe we can get 3 really good guys out of the bunch. That works for me.

 

[Retroram52]

You guys just don' get it. The baseball genius has posted and you need to understand that when he posts, you need to take heed and get educated out of your dummy ways because his posts are totally correct and yours are just not on the same genius level. You need to be instructed to get to that level of understanding especially if it is concerned with baseball and the Phillies. LOL!!

 

[northeastphillyguy]

maybe this will help anyone who doesn't comprehend how important depth is or how to run a team, but wants to be an armchair GM.

MLB.com has thompson, williams and alfaro ranked #3, 4, 5 in the phils system.. only behind crawford and nola. considering nola is up and will stay up, you can bump all of them 1 spot higher.

pivetta, eichhoff and tirado are ranked #13, 14, 15. they are one spot behind lively and ahead of guys like windle and biddle. asher is ranked #24, a couple spots above severino gonzalez.

top 100 wise.. thompson is ranked #60, williams #64 and alfaro #69.

so we traded hamels, diekman, revere and papelbon (basically hamels in terms of actual need) for six guys who now represent our top 15, seven in our top 24 and three in baseball's top 69.

That is a good report. Glad to have the prospects. Some will be major leaguers one day. However it would have been better if we did not have to trade Hamels. Amaro put us in this position. Time to move forward!

 

[_phiLLies_]

You guys just don' get it. The baseball genius has posted and you need to understand that when he posts, you need to take heed and get educated out of your dummy ways because his posts are totally correct and yours are just not on the same genius level. You need to be instructed to get to that level of understanding especially if it is concerned with baseball and the Phillies. LOL!!

on a scale of 1 to 10 when it comes to fans knowing their team, the league in general, the lower levels, stats, deals, the system, money, the future, etc.. the mass majority of people are about a 2.

then you have a small percentage, like myself, who invest time in following it all and simply know more based on experience and interest. we're about a 4.

then you have writers and people in the business who make it their job on top of their hobby. they're about a 6 or 7.

then you have the professionals in the organization who run the shit like scouts, gm's and so on. they're about a 9.

so, to respond to your post.. yes, you need to understand what i say. else, you just bear the appearance of a dunce who rambles on about things that aren't even true and/or things you are not clear on.

to be even more direct; when i've been saying for about a year now that amaro isn't anything but a figurehead and others (mainly gillick) are in control, you bear the appearance of a dunce for continually mocking amaro and tying every recent move to him that you think is wrong.

just like when i say the phils received a really good return for hamels. it's immediately backed up by most writers and people in the business. they even tossed in cash to make the return bigger and better, something a lot of teams will not or cannot do.

these type of posts/comments are not opinion. they are fact.

 

[_phiLLies_]

That is a good report. Glad to have the prospects. Some will be major leaguers one day. However it would have been better if we did not have to trade Hamels. Amaro put us in this position. Time to move forward!

the extensions and trades did screw us up big time. but, with that said, it's what 99% of fans wanted. if he didn't do anything at all, fans would still be complaining today that we could have won multiple championships, if only he acquired some help.

the fatal mistake was not starting the rebuild sooner. but, with that said, the phils have quickly adapted and have some really solid balance all around their organization. they have straight up sold out for youth and talent.

 

[Retroram52]

O.K. you made your point _phillies_. Now as a moderator, I suggest you move along with this narrative. Everyone knows you think your above everyone else and that is permissible but if you persist with this in-in-your-face approach you continue to push, I shall be forced to take steps to make this posting environment an amiable one for all posters to have a voice even though their posts may not be as educated as you.

I do many things as a moderator of which you are not privy to on a routine basis. I have no problem with you thinking I am dunce but I guarantee you that not everything I do is for factual purposes. Just for the record, I have been a fan of the Phillies since 1962. Longer than you have been alive. So in short, chill out chief before I have to do some things you won't like. C-a-p-e-e-ch?

 

[Omar 382]

Wait, what did _phillies do wrong?

 

[Retroram52]

If you don't know the answer to that question Omar, your perception skills come into significant doubt. Seriously, did you just ask that question?

 

[Omar 382]

He gave us a prospect update. I didn't know that that was against the rules.

I'm not _phillies_' older brother. He can defend himself if he wants.

 

[Retroram52]

Yea, Omar. You have to read the other threads. In this particular thread he did little wrong except perpetuate an approach that started on other threads. So we are addressing an on-going activity. BTW, I appreciate your posts and insight on the Phils in your return to the SportsHoopla.

 

[jvett77]

_phillies_, why don't you upload a suitable avatar.

There were two choices by the deadline. Get a haul of prospects of varying quality or get several players of near term impact, the can't miss guys. Because Hamels, Papelbon, and Revere can immediately exhibit profound quality for their respective contending teams, it should not be too much to expect several players in return who can come in and kill for us next year. We may be kicking the can down the road at a time when the Phillies may not be as far away from contending as their record currently shows. However, I realize these deals were in the works for some time, so Amaro says. But,

Do we have a use for Matt Harrison and his chronic back problems at a cost of him $30 mill? It insults our intelligence. Why get two lottery ticket young longshot Dominicans for a reasonably young consistent, 50 SB, .300 hitter? Ankle injuries are bad for a catcher. Alfaro might be a dud. "4"s like you don't choose to gripe about these players?

Who knows how good the other acquisitions might be and how long their development might take. Fortunately, Williams might be a good one but he needs a year at AAA to answer that. The rest do not appear to be that far along.

If the haul is as good as you believe, then we've gained valuable trade chips for upcoming deals this year and next and we'll see how that goes. The fans aren't dumb. They're just as greedy as the other team's fans. Is Amaro a "2" or a"4"? End of rant.

 

[Retroram52]

Come along now jvett. You were just getting started dude!

 

[jvett77]

..... So in short, chill out chief before I have to do some things you won't like. C-a-p-e-e-ch?

No offense, retro, but that sounds just a little too strong. Let him rant his beliefs; we can always refute his ideas if we don't like them.

 

[jvett77]

Holy shit, Amaro is a "2". The Pence trade proved that years ago.

 

[_phiLLies_]

well, for one, i certainly do not care if i'm banned/block/suspended. no one is ever going to tell me how to type or how i can present myself. a forum isn't part of my survival.

two, i'm not ranting about "beliefs." again, it's TRUTH. i have yet to see one professional declare the hamels trade as anything remotely close to bad. my initial reaction was "very nice." why? because i know who these guys are. i know no one is looking to give up young hitting prospects. i know the phils added in money/took back harrison's contract so they could get more players. i know they did a nice job balancing the players. i follow minor league baseball almost as much as the majors.

so i'm going to listen to fans, who know little to nothing about the situation, complain about taking on some money? complain about not getting mazara, a guy they fucking never heard of before these trade talks? complain about how they didn't get some star, even though NONE of these minor leaguers are guaranteed for anything? complain about having to wait a year or more to possibly see these guys?

revere is a light hitting outfielder who had drawn very little interest. the angels previously backed out of a deal to give up a minor league reliever. there wasn't much to gain, but the phils found potential. papelbon is a big money closer with an equally big mouth. the market was also limited for him as well. chapman and kimbrel stayed put.

anyone, who knows anything respectable about baseball, knows the phils did a very good job with their overall return and there is nothing to question or complain about. like i was saying, that's not a belief. that's fact.

it all comes back to; if you're going to post, wherever, know what you're talking about. i'm tired of seeing (everywhere, from any fans) that amaro is going to screw up this or that. if you don't follow, don't realize he isn't the one making decisions.. don't post about it. if you haven't seen these prospects, know their game, know their numbers, know their potential, know their worth.. don't post like you know their value. shit like that is just idiotic.

if someone is going to disagree, more power to you. come back and explain how you don't think thompson has the best slider in the minors. explain why you think alfaro will not become anything. explain what you expect hamels to do in the next three years. any basic bullshit of "duh, this sucks" just knocks down a fan base.

i've already seen more than enough posts of rangers fans embarrassing philly fans who have no idea what the hell they are talking about.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

Things I know. Amaro has been rated the worst GM in baseball by sports writers and others. He has allowed
contracts with favorable clauses to players that prove detrimental to the team. HE knows little about metrics
and probability factors in future development of players. He is a poor scout. He has a false ego. He has been
allowed to ruin this franchise by an owner that gave him full rein. There is much more but you all get my point.

More things that I know. The fans are sensitive. You can only insult them for so long. We have been screaming
for the last two years or more to get rid of Braindead or as others know him, Ruin tomorrow Jr.

The fans are the true employers of their teams. They will cheer and they will boo. They will state their opinions
solicited or not. They do not have to be right all the time. They may vent their frustrations or show enthusiasm
at any given time. Fans buy a lot of merchandize and provide income to concession stands.

So when we post on sports forums there will be disagreements in opinions. Sports forums allow us to vent
and share our opinions. These same forums allow us to share current news and updates about our teams.
We also have a few laughs as well. When someone is professing to be superior by putting others down it
usually leads to discord. Therefore I will not let myself fall into a trap set by such a person. I look forward
to sharing with others at this site and I will continue to do so God willing. I am a fan.

 

[jvett77]

Those other teams get value instantly. We get minor leaguer, as you said, NONE of whom are guaranteed for anything. I don't describe Revere as a light hitter; he's a .300 hitter.

 

[Retroram52]

well, for one, i certainly do not care if i'm banned/block/suspended. no one is ever going to tell me how to type or how i can present myself. a forum isn't part of my survival.

two, i'm not ranting about "beliefs." again, it's TRUTH. i have yet to see one professional declare the hamels trade as anything remotely close to bad. my initial reaction was "very nice." why? because i know who these guys are. i know no one is looking to give up young hitting prospects. i know the phils added in money/took back harrison's contract so they could get more players. i know they did a nice job balancing the players. i follow minor league baseball almost as much as the majors.

so i'm going to listen to fans, who know little to nothing about the situation, complain about taking on some money? complain about not getting mazara, a guy they fucking never heard of before these trade talks? complain about how they didn't get some star, even though NONE of these minor leaguers are guaranteed for anything? complain about having to wait a year or more to possibly see these guys?

revere is a light hitting outfielder who had drawn very little interest. the angels previously backed out of a deal to give up a minor league reliever. there wasn't much to gain, but the phils found potential. papelbon is a big money closer with an equally big mouth. the market was also limited for him as well. chapman and kimbrel stayed put.

anyone, who knows anything respectable about baseball, knows the phils did a very good job with their overall return and there is nothing to question or complain about. like i was saying, that's not a belief. that's fact.

it all comes back to; if you're going to post, wherever, know what you're talking about. i'm tired of seeing (everywhere, from any fans) that amaro is going to screw up this or that. if you don't follow, don't realize he isn't the one making decisions.. don't post about it. if you haven't seen these prospects, know their game, know their numbers, know their potential, know their worth.. don't post like you know their value. shit like that is just idiotic.

if someone is going to disagree, more power to you. come back and explain how you don't think thompson has the best slider in the minors. explain why you think alfaro will not become anything. explain what you expect hamels to do in the next three years. any basic bullshit of "duh, this sucks" just knocks down a fan base.

i've already seen more than enough posts of rangers fans embarrassing philly fans who have no idea what the hell they are talking about.

O.K. then have it your way. I am not asking you to stop posting stats and what you know. Everyone here does that like jvett, Omar, Northeast, Cedrique, and many others. I am simply stating to stop pushing your IN-YOUR-FACE approach with name calling and belittling comments unless there is an understanding with another poster that they understand where you are coming from. But you'd rather ignore rules of common decency. Who is the dunce now? Seriously?

You aren't going to be banned yet. Part of the forum quorum is to present your case just like everyone has been doing but you have decided to throw in the attitude that others' approach is useless and stupid. Yea some of your stuff is truth but some is beliefs and opinion. For example, we all know Amaro is a figurehead that represents higher ups but what he says and his reasoning is still brain dead and this organization was run into the ground by the triumvariate of the owner who hides behind Gillick, and Amaro.

I have mentioned often that the owner is to blame for letting this go to the point of being the worst franchise as recent as two years hence. But you show one day and start exclaiming that everyone doesn't know the hell they are talking about and you do it without consideration of what had transpired. Just a bit over the top and commonly known as troll behavior. And when it gets to be trolling behavior then I am going to step in tell you knock it off.

If you continue to be trollish then I'll have no recourse then to tell you and others to take it somewhere else. After all, there are ways to present your point without being a troll. Just read how Omar, Northeast, jvett, Westcoast, and Cedrique present their point of view. It is fairly simple. But as you posted above, your attitude is the hell with fans who don't know what they are talking about and I state facts and you fools state bullshit blah, blah, blah.

That in itself is a subjective opinion laced with some palatable facts. If we are such stupid people, then go find knowledgeable, informed ones. Why do you continue to come back here and try what you have already stated? What do you hope to gain? Consider yourself warned.