Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe deserve to be in the HOF

[williewilliejuan]

so ... you're of the opinion that RJ roided? evidence, links, etc?

Steroids cause acne scars.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

A couple of years back I saw Pete Rose do an interview and he was ranting a bit about the whole thing.

I thought it was really funny because in the background of this interview was a huge window with a fantastic view of the Vegas strip.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Shoeless Joe should be in. As should Bonds and Clemens, roids or no, since they were the best in their era at their crafts. Even if he never juiced, Bonds would have been an inner-circle Hall of Famer, unless he was also taking steroids for his eyes, which I'm fairly certain isn't a thing. Well, I guess Vitamin A tablets, but I'm fairly certain multivitamins aren't banned, so...

I'm okay with Rose having to wait until he's dead to get in, but by merit of his play, he should eventually get there.

I disagree with everything outside of Rose getting in after he dies.

I have plenty of sympathy for Jackson but none for Rose. He agreed to the ban and I hope MLB sticks with it for the life of the league.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Now mattingly is out until some veteran committed decides he was snubbed when mattingly won 9 gold gloves to santos 5 and Mattingly actually had some competition with better first basemen.

Absolutely not.

The Hit Man was on his way to being one of the greatest of all time but that went out when his back did.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

Absolutely not.

The Hit Man was on his way to being one of the greatest of all time but that went out when his back did.

Wow. "The hit man" It's been a while since I heard his nick name.

 

[Band of Brothers]

If anyone knows about gambling addiction it's one of the worst addictions out there. It rips up your life and the lives of of the people you love. It puts a plastic bag around your soul and will choke you. I think more suicides are because of gambling addiction then any other addiction. It can get scary and there are some real sad stories out there. Pete not only hurt himself but the lives of his family and his baseball family. It should also be noted that Alex Karas and the dude from Green Bay Paul Horning were suspended by football but for only 1 year. Football is Art also. The NFL found it in their hearts to forgive them.

Players addicted to drugs in baseball have been welcomed back. I just heard that Randy Johnson just admitted that he might of taken a supplement near the end of his career. He was not sure but I commend him for coming clean on that. We just don't know how many dudes juiced? So how do we decide which works of Art go into a Museum. I also understand that former players feel cheated about roid guys messing up their records. They deserve to be recognized for their accomplishments and their place in history. We also have to remember spit balls and greenies that helped players . I understand they are not roids but they did help players get up for games if ever so slight so do we kick them out of the HOF.

Players are survivors that will always try and find a edge to play a game they love and take care of their family making a living. Man, the whole thing is a slippery slope. I would really like to see more baseball art and more forgiveness from their Brothers who also battled in a different era. We don't know how many former players would of taken roids to play the game they love if it was offered in the past?

On Rose....please watch the movie The Gambler from the 70's with James Caan. A lot of pain in that movie as addicts eat themselves up inside. Great performance of a man out of control? Rose loved the game but was a man just out of control. Pete has his flaws. Should we open up all the closets of everyone in baseball and peek in? Now that might be interesting. Rose loved the game especially as a player...I have no doubt about that. It's been what 20 something years now he has been left out of the game he loves. I was mad at Rose when it all came out ..I was real pissed. But after looking at the whole picture I find room for forgiveness who was a warrior and always played 100 % to win. Ballz out !


Sjhoeless Joe was guilty hanging with dudes that though they should be paid what they were worth. The greed of the owners soured them as warriors who played all out. Shoeless Joe also as not able to read or write and might of been scared to stand up and desert his boys who he battled with. Like I said it's a slippery slope but Joe Jackson loved the game and his stats backed him in that WS he was supposed to be throwing. Joe loved the game and was baseball art period.

Later. Good Luck it's a very spirited discussion and everyone deserves to be heard.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

so ... you're of the opinion that RJ roided? evidence, links, etc?

I think he did.

I don't care that he did but I think he did.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

I disagree with everything outside of Rose getting in after he dies.

I have plenty of sympathy for Jackson but none for Rose. He agreed to the ban and I hope MLB sticks with it for the life of the league.

I meant I agree with everything but Rose getting in.

 

[jctoo]

Steroids cause acne scars.

and violent collisions between bat ... um ... dove and ball?

 

[jctoo]

If anyone knows about gambling addiction it's one of the worst addictions out there.

I don't know, but I'd say Alcoholism, Drugs, Asian Babes and ex-wives would rank a tad bit higher than gambling ... just sayn'

 

[Band of Brothers]

I need to change the ? behind the was Caan out of control in that movie. No question from me he was out of control. Sorry the misprinting of that. I have been kind of lazy trying the learn the editing on here. I wish we had at least another 5-10 minutes to edit. Whatever ...onward.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

If anyone knows about gambling addiction it's one of the worst addictions out there. It rips up your life and the lives of of the people you love. It puts a plastic bag around your soul and will choke you. I think more suicides are because of gambling addiction then any other addiction. It can get scary and there are some real sad stories out there.

People don't just spontaneously develop gambling addictions but, if he did have one, it was still his responsibility to notify MLB, resign his position, and get help. I can sympathize with an addict who doesn't want to be an addict but, ultimately, they're the ones who have to make moves to get clean.

 

[Band of Brothers]

I don't know, but I'd say Alcoh.olism, Drugs, Asian Babes and ex-wives would rank a tad bit higher than gambling ... just sayn'

It's a proven fact that gambling addictions a real bad disease that cause suicides.. I am almost 100% sure of that. I heard a very informed person one time talk about the illness. I wish I could remember his name.

 

[ducky]

If players like Bonds, McGuire, Clemens don't get in, no one from that era including managers should get in.

Joe Torre, Tony La Russa, Bobby Cox, ect should all be taken out as well. Not a single one of those guys is a HOF manager if they weren't coaching juiced players. And they all knew it too.

 

[Band of Brothers]

I also messed up messed up on shoeless joe's name at the end of the story.

 

[Band of Brothers]

It needs to be noted that all addicts are not the same and addicts have good hearts . They just get kind of lost and Caan's portrayal does not represent all addicts. Everyone is different on how it affects him or her.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

I don't know, but I'd say Alcoholism, Drugs, Asian Babes and ex-wives would rank a tad bit higher than gambling ... just sayn'

What do you think gamblers are actually doing? They are chasing that high they get when they gamble.

 

[williewilliejuan]

It needs to be noted that all addicts are not the same and addicts have good hearts . They just get kind of lost and Caan's portrayal does not represent all addicts. Everyone is different on how it affects him or her.

Drugs and alcohol are contributors to heart disease.

 

[steveringo]

so ... you're of the opinion that RJ roided? evidence, links, etc?

Guilty by association... I believe everyone juiced in that era...

Then there is the fact that he had his best 4 year stretch after the age of 35 (which is a physiological abnormality) -and it just happend to be the years right after his main competition in pitching stardom discovered roids in Canada and rattled off two Cy Young Awards of his own... And, the same time Sosa & McGwire had put on their steroid exhibitions....

It is my opinion that anyone that thinks RJ did NOT juice is turning a blind eye to the obvious.

One day, people will take a step back, look at the big picture and smile at the silly steroid era... In the grand scheme of things, it was a fun 15 years....

But I won't hold it against anyone if they believe RJ et al. were clean...

 

[Band of Brothers]

It should also be noted that almost everyone inside the game knew roids were going down and that most of them rode the money train especially when McGuire and Sosa saved baseball because of the long ball. It is a time in baseball history. MUSEUM HISTORY ! Can't sweep in under a rug ...it happened.

If the HOF tells the story of roids it might make kids not want to take roids in the future and do it clean. We do learn things from the past.


All the facts are still not in on roids and how it affects the body long term. We just don't know if it really can make people feel stronger as they get older. Some steriods are prescribed by Doctors to treat patients. I believe President John Kennedy was prescribed a steroid to build him back. He was very sick and weak in his early life. I think he had a back problem .


I don't know for sure but hopefully doctors can study the effect of roids long term to educate the public. We have some brilliant Doctors out there. I have been around a lot of doctors in the past year or so and I am so thankful to them and their desire to help people especially the poor who can not afford care. Very dedicated to making the world a better place. Try and make sure you thank them the next time you need a visit. They will appreciate the thought. A lot of school work and long hours . Also nurses who have taken care of me and also tell me to stay positive in rehab. A very dedicated profession with not enough praise. I love all my superstar nurses who deserve to be paid more for the job they do.

I have had some great nurses. The backbone of the Medical profession.