OT: Reds sign Madson

[icehole3]

good pickup, market is drying up for free agents

Reds come to agreement on one-year deal with closer Ryan Madson | reds.com: News

Reds, closer Madson agree on one-year deal

CINCINNATI -- The Reds agreed to terms late Tuesday on a one-year, $10 million contract with free-agent closer Ryan Madson, a baseball source confirmed to MLB.com.

Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com and MLB Network had the initial report of a deal being reached. The Reds have not announced any agreement. A message was left with general manager Walt Jocketty.

Citing sources, Heyman reported earlier in the evening that talks between the two sides were heating up and in the serious stages. However, a source familiar with the situation downplayed the report to MLB.com, saying it was unlikely the Reds would get Madson unless his agent -- Scott Boras -- came well off the demand of a four-year, $44 million contract he had been reportedly been wanting.

 

[bengaldoug]

That's awesome....the Reds are going all in this year, trying to win.....

 

[Servo]

Chapman to the starting rotation? I hope so...

 

[BigBlueNation111]

I know its not written in stone yet but that would be sweet!! We've got the offensive power and speed for the bases,just need to keep getting the pitching to go with it. REDS!!

 

[bengaldoug]

Chapman to the starting rotation? I hope so...

That's been the plan all along....now with Madson and Sean Marshall bolstering the bullpen and Mat Latos added at the top of the rotation with Cueto and Chapman, the pitching staff has really been seriously been strengthened......

Rotation
1. Cueto
2. Latos
3. Chapman
4. Leake
5. Arroyo

Spot starter Bailey

Bullpen
Closer - Madsen
Left handed setup --- Marshall, Bray
Right handed setup --- Masset, Ondrusek

That's a really good staff.....

 

[Cincyfan78]

I don't know why everyone just assumes that Chapman is a lock for the rotation. He's shown nothing thus far that says he's ready to start the year in the rotation. He has 0 starting experience at the MLB level, he can't pitch with guys on base, and he can't throw either of his other two pitches for strikes when needed. He also will have to learn how to consistently stay in the mid 90's with his FB in order to go deeper into games.

He was supposed to pitch in winterball, and they had to shut him down because of his shoulder. Even if he does, by chance, start, there's no way he can give them more than 125 innings because you don't want to increase his innings more than 30% from one year to the next. He's been a relieve the past 2 seasons.

With Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Leake, and Bailey all pretty much locks for the rotation where does Chapman fit into that? My guess is that he will start the season at AAA and work his way into being a starter, and fill in when injury hits.

 

[bengaldoug]

I don't know why everyone just assumes that Chapman is a lock for the rotation. He's shown nothing thus far that says he's ready to start the year in the rotation. He has 0 starting experience at the MLB level, he can't pitch with guys on base, and he can't throw either of his other two pitches for strikes when needed. He also will have to learn how to consistently stay in the mid 90's with his FB in order to go deeper into games.

He was supposed to pitch in winterball, and they had to shut him down because of his shoulder. Even if he does, by chance, start, there's no way he can give them more than 125 innings because you don't want to increase his innings more than 30% from one year to the next. He's been a relieve the past 2 seasons.

With Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Leake, and Bailey all pretty much locks for the rotation where does Chapman fit into that? My guess is that he will start the season at AAA and work his way into being a starter, and fill in when injury hits.

Yes he is a project, and that's why they still have Bailey as insurance...I don't think the plan is to send him back to the minors as they simply have too much money invested in him. He'll be in the rotation when the season starts if healthy, and they'll probably try to gradually extend him.....he really needs another pitch to go with his heater and slider, but he's been working on a changeup, and if he gets that down his transition will be complete. At first don't be surprised if he has a lot of five inning outings, which they can get away with because the other four starters are pretty good at getting late into games(especially Latos and Arroyo). I think 130-150 innings is a reasonable goal over 25 starts. Whatever happened to the old days, when guys just threw and threw and many starters were good for 300+ innings? IMO they baby these guys way too much now.

 

[Servo]

That's been the plan all along....now with Madson and Sean Marshall bolstering the bullpen and Mat Latos added at the top of the rotation with Cueto and Chapman, the pitching staff has really been seriously been strengthened......

Rotation
1. Cueto
2. Latos
3. Chapman
4. Leake
5. Arroyo

Spot starter Bailey

Bullpen
Closer - Madsen
Left handed setup --- Marshall, Bray
Right handed setup --- Masset, Ondrusek

That's a really good staff.....

I'm excited. Nice work Red's FO and Mr. Castalleni...

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yes he is a project, and that's why they still have Bailey as insurance...I don't think the plan is to send him back to the minors as they simply have too much money invested in him. He'll be in the rotation when the season starts if healthy, and they'll probably try to gradually extend him.....he really needs another pitch to go with his heater and slider, but he's been working on a changeup, and if he gets that down his transition will be complete. At first don't be surprised if he has a lot of five inning outings, which they can get away with because the other four starters are pretty good at getting late into games(especially Latos and Arroyo). I think 130-150 innings is a reasonable goal over 25 starts. Whatever happened to the old days, when guys just threw and threw and many starters were good for 300+ innings? IMO they baby these guys way too much now.

And here's my point: If the Reds are truly "Going for it" in 2012 like everyone says...are you going to go with a proven starter, or "work" some "project" into the rotation?

Chapman is nowhere near ready to start at the MLB level. Maybe I'm wrong, but there's simply no way this team can risk starting him in the rotation if they are serious about "going for it". None. He's got 2 pitches, and only 1 he can throw for a strike more than 50% of the time. He doesn't pitch well with guys on base. He pitched 50 innings in the bigs in 2011. Let's just assume that he pitched 25+innings in Lou. That would put him at 97 innings with a 30% increase for 2012. That's it. 100 innings. Even if the Reds went above that, and went to 110-120 innings...they're not going to want to go above that.

At some point, they have to realize they screwed up with the handling of Chapman, and either eat the money and keep him as a releiver, or leave him in AAA and let him work his way into starting for the 2013 year when the Reds could potentiall see Arroyo gone. Eitherway, if they want to "go for it" in 2012, what Chapman makes is completely and totally irrelevant...and it HAS to be, or they are not 100% commited to "going for it".

 

[Tubbs1518]

Sorry Cincyfan but I disagree completely with your thought process.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Sorry Cincyfan but I disagree completely with your thought process.

It's cool. I realize that I'm kinda out on my own here.

But simply put...Chapman is not one of the best 5 starters on this team. Point blank. There are many who follow the Reds, including John Fay, who believe that Chapman will either relieve this year, or end up starting in AAA.

To say that this guy is "ready" and proclaim that you are "all in" for 2012 are completely contradictory statements. Chapman is nowhere near ready, and you can't be "all in" if you are going to bring a pet project along in your rotation when you have more readily available options.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong. I hope we see that he can throw strikes, get guys out on a consistent bases with a more accurate slider, and developing chage-up. I hope that his, well over .300 BAA with ROB, is just a blip on the overall radar. However, I just don't see it, but I am keeping an open mind that I could be wrong.

If you are "all in" for this year...you can't rely on chapman being a starter. Not to mention, as I've said, the Reds are not going to want to increase his innings from one year to the next more than 30%. That will give Chapman roughly 100 innings this year. What good does it do to have Chapman pitching into July and then having to shut him down for the year? It makes ZERO sense. It's one of the big issues they faced with Leake in 2010, and they showed why screwing around and bumping him up and down in the rotation had an adverse effect on his ability to be consistent and pitch well. Leake even said as much after that season how it affected him going on 4 days rest, then 6, and then one time on 8 days. So, I don't see the Reds doing that again with Chapman to try and get through July and into August with Chapman.

I know I'm in a different boat on this than most people, and that's cool. If he starts, I'm not going to hate on the guy, but he has no place, right now, in this rotation IMO. Bailey has no options, and can't pitch out of the 'pen because Walt and Dusty have both said it takes him 20-25 minutes to get loose and warm up. Leake has options, but you're not going to get rid of him from the rotation. Arroyo isn't going anywhere, and last year aside, he has been very dependable for the Reds. Latos and Cueto are your #1 and #2 pitchers in some order or another. There's no room...and no need to "force" Chapman into this rotation right now.

He signed a 6 year deal. He's here for another 3 years after this year. He is better off in AAA starting, getting his innings up, and working on his control both with runners on base and with his #2 and #3 pitches. He'll be called up for an injury spot start here or there...as someone will miss a start here and there.

Or the Reds need to decide if he's going to be on the MLB roster and pitch out of the 'pen and realize they screwed up early on and either A. overpaid for a relief pitcher or B. Screwed up by not keeping him in AAA last year to develope as a starter. The longer they keep toying with this the more time they are wasting of his career.

 

[DanBengalfan]

someone always get hurt anyway. that's baseball.

 

[kramer1]

Chapman makes too much money and is too big of a fan fave for him to be sent down to Louisville. That ain't happenin.

He's also not ready to start. They fucked that up big time.

He's also untradeable.

This outfield is a huge mess. Bruce had 1 good month. His defense was garbage. Outside of May he hit something like .240. Stubbs blows. The guy couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. His defense is abysmal. He doesn't hustle. Heisey K's at the same clip as Stubbs and can't hit lefties for some goddamned reason. He's a 4th/5th OF'er at best. Paul daugherty and the "Free Heisey" people are fucking delusional.

Then you got the infield...Rolen is like the walking dead. Francisco, his backup, can't hit for shit. He's Pedro Cerrano...and he can't field to boot. You have fucking Cozart at SS and then...Janish? Worst SS in the entire league. Can't be argued. Then you have the mess at catcher. Hanigan, who can't hit..had 6 hr all season with 3 in one damn game in April....and a rookie. Coul dbe good...could be shit. Will probably fall somewhere in between if we're lucky. It's a mess. A flat out fucking mess.

Here's a neat stat from last season....the Reds scored 6+ runs in 56 games for a record of 44-12. The scored 3 or less 70 times for a record of 16-54. What's that tell ya? The offense is a complete mess. They have exactly one guy who can hit the ball. ONE. And he's gone in 2 years.

 

[Cincyfan78]

someone always get hurt anyway. that's baseball.

Yep. And this is where I see Chapmans' role this year. Starting at AAA to increase his innings, and work on his #2 and #3 pitches, as well as his control.

Someone will go down with an injury, and he'll be the guy they call up for the spot start.


I mean, it's basically an argument that boils down to who our 5th starter is going to be. So, in the end, I'm not really worried about it.

One thing is for certain...the top part of the rotation is much better with Latos and Cueto. I think Arroyo will bounce back (Never did fully recover from his Mono and then his back went out on him...he should have been on the DL). Leake has shown he can more than hold his own...and those are, most likely, the top 4 starters on this team.

Now, with Bray, Marshall, and Madson at the back-end of the 'pen...the Reds can make each game a 6 inning game...because the 7-9th innings are going to be LOCKED DOWN!

 

[Cincyfan78]

Chapman makes too much money and is too big of a fan fave for him to be sent down to Louisville. That ain't happenin.

He's also not ready to start. They fucked that up big time.

He's also untradeable.

This outfield is a huge mess. Bruce had 1 good month. His defense was garbage. Outside of May he hit something like .240. Stubbs blows. The guy couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. His defense is abysmal. He doesn't hustle. Heisey K's at the same clip as Stubbs and can't hit lefties for some goddamned reason. He's a 4th/5th OF'er at best. Paul daugherty and the "Free Heisey" people are fucking delusional.

Then you got the infield...Rolen is like the walking dead. Francisco, his backup, can't hit for shit. He's Pedro Cerrano...and he can't field to boot. You have fucking Cozart at SS and then...Janish? Worst SS in the entire league. Can't be argued. Then you have the mess at catcher. Hanigan, who can't hit..had 6 hr all season with 3 in one damn game in April....and a rookie. Coul dbe good...could be shit. Will probably fall somewhere in between if we're lucky. It's a mess. A flat out fucking mess.

Here's a neat stat from last season....the Reds scored 6+ runs in 56 games for a record of 44-12. The scored 3 or less 70 times for a record of 16-54. What's that tell ya? The offense is a complete mess. They have exactly one guy who can hit the ball. ONE. And he's gone in 2 years.

Some valid points. As with regards to the bolded section...

IF the Reds are serious about being "all in" for 2012 then the bolded section can't matter. If Chapman shows he can be one of the best 5 options to start, then he should start. Period. If he doesn't, then he needs to go to AAA. And this has been my main arguement. You can't say you are all in for 2012 and then put a guy in the rotation who has proven exactly NOTHING as a starter when you have other options.

 

[kramer1]

Some valid points. As with regards to the bolded section...

IF the Reds are serious about being "all in" for 2012 then the bolded section can't matter. If Chapman shows he can be one of the best 5 options to start, then he should start. Period. If he doesn't, then he needs to go to AAA. And this has been my main arguement. You can't say you are all in for 2012 and then put a guy in the rotation who has proven exactly NOTHING as a starter when you have other options.

It really makes no difference. As of now the Reds are still in line to finish in 3rd place in the NL Central...barring some miracle. The offense stinks. STINKS. It's full of guys who can't hit nor get on base. It's a joke. The media/organization hype is in full swing, though. "All in" my ass. People are stupid, though. They can't take 5 seconds to break it down logically.

It will accomplish what they want in the end....more early season ticket sales. This team will be out of it come the trade deadline. At that point they really should trade Votto (which shoulda already happened). Of course, this will never happen.

 

[BigBlueNation111]

That's been the plan all along....now with Madson and Sean Marshall bolstering the bullpen and Mat Latos added at the top of the rotation with Cueto and Chapman, the pitching staff has really been seriously been strengthened......

Rotation
1. Cueto
2. Latos
3. Chapman
4. Leake
5. Arroyo

Spot starter Bailey

Bullpen
Closer - Madsen
Left handed setup --- Marshall, Bray
Right handed setup --- Masset, Ondrusek

That's a really good staff.....

I like that!

 

[redbengal1000]

I do agree that Chapman hasn't shown shit yet to be a starter. His arm wears down after a few innings, and has never really shown that he can be a starter in this league. I see him more as a reliever, at least to start the year, barring injury. He can be a hell of a reliever for a couple innings, but I don't know how much more. 90% of the reason everyone wants this guy starting is hype. Oh, and he can throw a 100 mph fast ball. It's not everything.

 

[cincygrad]

The division will be weak.... The Cards should be favored but they have some issues that will need to be resolved. The Cubs are being rebuilt and the Brewers have some problems. The Reds are in good position to win the division and get swept in the playoffs - See 2010.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Sorry Cincyfan but I disagree completely with your thought process.

Their plan is to put Chapman in the starting rotationm in LOUISVILLE at the beginning of the season, since we was not able to play in winter ball.