One, the other, or some combination?

[Stymietee]

Oh. So this poll is about EB? Now I see. So why isn’t the phrasing about how much as Howell has or has not helped EB?

It absolutely is about both Howell and EB!! Take a look at the polling options and you'll see that there are options that can be evenly considered.
Look at the thread title!
Btw; as stated, the phrasing in the poll is limited by character count and had to be shortened.
The body of the post is pretty clear!

 

[Stymietee]

It doesn’t matter And it is an odd post. But Sty has been anti Howell since we signed jacoby Brissett, at least.

This is complete BS and hopefully, you know it! Now if you don't, then you have a YOU problem!
How am I anti-Howell in any way other than in your mind? I have given pretty clear assessments of him albeit without the team/man love emotional attachments.
Do I see Jocoby Brissett as the better option to get wins with this team than Howell? Yep!
Do, I also see Sam Howell as a credible starter in this league? Yep!
So, what's the difference? Experience and veteran leadership, both of which Howell is trying to gain in an OJT situation and at the expense of 52 other players on the team. Two things can be true at the same time!

 

[Stymietee]

You just said in another thread that Sam has improved his release time. Isn’t that improvement?

I never said that "he improved his release time!" What I actually said is "his release time dropped to 1.9 seconds and that's 100% scheme."
Try to twist this in any way that suits you, I'm here to help.

 

[j_y19]

I never said that "he improved his release time!" What I actually said is "his release time dropped to 1.9 seconds and that's 100% scheme."
Try to twist this in any way that suits you, I'm here to help.

So that’s not improvement? Or was the scheme just wrong the first 5 games?

 

[Stymietee]

So that’s not improvement? Or was the scheme just wrong the first 5 games?

The scheme was completely wrong for the personnel. The all-time sack record was in jeopardy, the health of the young QB was also in question, as was any reasonable way to evaluate the same.
Personally, I see very little improvement in the team or this particular player. Better QB play generally garners improvement in the W/L record. Luckily they are one game better than where I expected them to be at this point and that's not good, especially considering the competition that they've faced this year. To be clear, this isn't a knock on Howell, he actually looks like an NFL starting QB and that's better than anyone else that they have fielded in recent years.

 

[Stymietee]

So that’s not improvement? Or was the scheme just wrong the first 5 games?

One other thing, if Howell is going to be the guy going forward they are not only going to need big changes on the OL but also in the skill positions (WR, TE, RB) in order to carry him to better W/L results.
If the plan consists of sticking with the current cast of characters or similar types, then Howell isn't the guy for this organization.

 

[Breed]

Unless one has a crystal ball it's too hard to say. I will say this. Both EB n Howell look significantly better of late.

I'd still like to see more dedication to the running game, but situations may not warrant it at times,

Plus there always the possibility that when new management comes in. Howell or EB or both may not be in their plans. Which would render it this exercise meaningless.

 

[Sportster 72]

It doesn’t matter And it is an odd post. But Sty has been anti Howell since we signed jacoby Brissett, at least.

He also said only three QBs should be considered in the draft:
Williams
Penix
Daniels

No mention of Drake Maye who is at this point considered the 1st or 2nd highest rated QB. Coincidence?

 

[j_y19]

He also said only three QBs should be considered in the draft:
Williams
Penix
Daniels

No mention of Drake Maye who is at this point considered the 1st or 2nd highest rated QB. Coincidence?

Highly unlikely.

 

[j_y19]

One other thing, if Howell is going to be the guy going forward they are not only going to need big changes on the OL but also in the skill positions (WR, TE, RB) in order to carry him to better W/L results.
If the plan consists of sticking with the current cast of characters or similar types, then Howell isn't the guy for this organization.

So who is?
who doesn’t need talent at those positions?
please. Enlighten me.

 

[gkekoa]

The answer is 80% Howell. The talent and physical ability have nothing to do with EB. The work ethic has very little to do with EB, and the leadership he displays has nothing to do with EB.

EB needs to get some credit for the GROWTH. EB has taught SH something’s as we have seen strong improvement. EB also doesn’t allow people to coast and holds them Accountable.

 

[chillerdab]

as a football fan: 100% Correct
need more data, lets see where the second half goes.

I'm impressed with the person inside the helmet through 9 games, BUT throwing a lot and playing from behind produces.. in most cases, boat load of yards. WHICH also explains the less than expected yàrds in the rushing game. More often than not, run blocking is less hectic than pass blocking for the oline at this level.

I think this is mostly true.

Certainly playing from behind creates the right conditions for a qb to put up gaudy stats, but it’s not an if/then statement.

In other words, plenty of teams are behind a lot and have shitty qbs that dont produce like Howell has.

Like I said: Wentz couldnt and neither could Heinicke. Mac Jones cant. Justin Fields. Baker Mayfield. Not sure if Geno Smith can. Zach Wilson cant. Ridder. The Carolina qb looks bad.

Anyway, Howell’s done well now, and that statement by itself is an encouraging sign, considering how terrible the commanders offensive line is.

 

[Rowdy]

Reading the posts here it seems that some are finally coming face-to-face with the Sam Howell, Eric Bieniemy Jr question relating to Howell's supposed growth and early anointment as "that guy" for this franchise. Here's the question...(Since everyone here claims to be evaluating both of them)

On a scale of 0 to 100 how much of Howell's "growth" can be directly contributed to EB and what percentage is Howell's alone?

Honestly I think RR deserves some credit. I’m of the belief that he’s the one that suggested to EB to be more balanced as in quick game, run, move the pocket and such. Ron has always liked ball control.

 

[Sportster 72]

I wasn't for hiring RR while at the same time I wondered where El Turdo could turn. He had already burned bridges with two good HC's.

Seems like a great guy while at the same time his coaching record other than a year or two was average to sub par. I think and hope he moves on as the Harris group now has time to look for others. The league will find something for him to do. He is liked around the league.

 

[Stymietee]

So who is?
who doesn’t need talent at those positions?
please. Enlighten me.

Has it yet occurred to you that in the league today, consistent winners (meaning legit SB contenders) require one of two things and rarely can afford both.
1. A top end QB
2. A top end supporting cast
Someone mentioned Howell as a likely 12 to 15 rated QB ( @dad if memory serves me well) and that's fair at this point. A team can win a lot of games with a QB like that. Hell, they may even get extremely fortunate and make it to a championship game, but is that what anyone truly wants? If so, I'm ashamed for associating with such losers!
Enlighten you??? OK!!
How is it possible that you aren't aware that every team in the league has talent at those positions but often times it's not good enough? Oh, yeah, you'd rather dismiss those insignificant things like pedigree, and resigning oneself to the reality that far too often a player is what he is and not what some believe him to be.

 

[j_y19]

Has it yet occurred to you that in the league today, consistent winners (meaning legit SB contenders) require one of two things and rarely can afford both.
1. A top end QB
2. A top end supporting cast
Someone mentioned Howell as a likely 12 to 15 rated QB ( @dad if memory serves me well) and that's fair at this point. A team can win a lot of games with a QB like that. Hell, they may even get extremely fortunate and make it to a championship game, but is that what anyone truly wants? If so, I'm ashamed for associating with such losers!
Enlighten you??? OK!!
How is it possible that you aren't aware that every team in the league has talent at those positions but often times it's not good enough? Oh, yeah, you'd rather dismiss those insignificant things like pedigree, and resigning oneself to the reality that far too often a player is what he is and not what some believe him to be.

Ok. That all sounds great. I guess. actually, you haven’t really said anything. So who do you sign or draft that can win with this talent level, since you believe Sam can’t? because isn’t that the whole point, isn’t it? If Sam isn’t the guy, WHO IS?
still not enlightened…..

 

[Rowdy]

Howell has got elite traits. That’s coming from PFF. He also leads or is at least close to leading in big time throws

 

[Rowdy]

I want to change my vote to Howell 100%. Howell is making the offense work. But against say teams like the girls and niners it’ll really be easy to call a defense. I’d just tell my defense the first one to play the run or fall for a fake they’re going to ride the pine. Could you imagine the QBs last year with this game planning? I really think Howell would’ve done well with turner. Yes the defense gets most of the blame for yesterday, but imagine if they would get a little more rest from a good running game

 

[Rowdy]

This is really fucking pathetic I just want the season to end now while most are healthy. Get rid of every mfr in the office and coaches

 

[Stymietee]

I'm posting this in order to bring this threat back up. It might be instructive for some here to revisit what they posted and how there seemed to be a lot of excuse-making and attacks on those who disagreed.