One, the other, or some combination?

[Stymietee]

Reading the posts here it seems that some are finally coming face-to-face with the Sam Howell, Eric Bieniemy Jr question relating to Howell's supposed growth and early anointment as "that guy" for this franchise. Here's the question...(Since everyone here claims to be evaluating both of them)

On a scale of 0 to 100 how much of Howell's "growth" can be directly contributed to EB and what percentage is Howell's alone?

 

[j_y19]

Supposed growth??? What a joke. You can’t even admit he has shown growth. What is it about this kid you so dislike? And why are you trying so hard to conjure support here that Howell is not what everyone else believes he is? You still think brissett should start?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I am hard pressed to assess an exact percentage. Too many variables. What defense were they playing, who was injured, how did the efforts of the Oline play out that day, what was EBs offensive plan that game, etc…

 

[chillerdab]

All I know is that howell was supposed to be a first round pick, stayed school, slid to the fifth round, looked ok vs dallas last year, is attempting a shit-ton of passes this year, and is putting up very good numbers.

Certainly not debateable that he’s better than any of the qbs on the roster last year, or that he’s done anything to warrant being benched this year.

That means that the qb position is in a better place now than before.

 

[PDay8810]

All I know is that howell was supposed to be a first round pick, stayed school, slid to the fifth round, looked ok vs dallas last year, is attempting a shit-ton of passes this year, and is putting up very good numbers.

Certainly not debateable that he’s better than any of the qbs on the roster last year, or that he’s done anything to warrant being benched this year.

That means that the qb position is in a better place now than before.

as a football fan: 100% Correct
need more data, lets see where the second half goes.

I'm impressed with the person inside the helmet through 9 games, BUT throwing a lot and playing from behind produces.. in most cases, boat load of yards. WHICH also explains the less than expected yàrds in the rushing game. More often than not, run blocking is less hectic than pass blocking for the oline at this level.

 

[kbso83432]

I said 60% EB. EB is giving him a lot of at bats. Skins are throwing the ball at a record or near record pace. I think that is speeding up the process. That many throws also leads to turnovers, especially with a young QB

I can't give all the credit to EB because Howell was very good in college and showed well in the Dallas game under a different offense.

EB has shortened the passing game. Ron got Larsen in there. Paul has held up. It just seems in Andy Ried/EB's offense guys are wide open underneath. That can make life easier for a young QB.

Have to wonder if they grab Bowers the TE from Georgia if they can fix the oline in free agency. Giving Howell an elite safety valve could do wonders for him.

60/40 EB

 

[skinsdad62]

i went 40 howell 60 EB . the thing is howell is taking the coaching , he is learning and EB is providing him opportunity and is not babying him

in 10 career games the kid has shown so far he can play in the NFL at the very least . . he has shown good leadership , and he is able to maintain balance though good and bad . . now its a matter if he can master the position and at what level . if you are looking for elite then it probably not going to happen , if you are looking for a top 10 -12 guy then he is probably it (so far )

 

[Stymietee]

Supposed growth??? What a joke. You can’t even admit he has shown growth. What is it about this kid you so dislike? And why are you trying so hard to conjure support here that Howell is not what everyone else believes he is? You still think brissett should start?

When creating threads such as this you have to consider the realistic probability that not everyone believes that there has been growth, or that whatever progress there's been can be entirely attributed to Howell. I get it, some people need a target to narrowly point to when they are in disagreement with others. I'll take the hit, but what I won't do is make assumptions about how "everyone else" believes he is.

 

[j_y19]

When creating threads such as this you have to consider the realistic probability that not everyone believes that there has been growth, or that whatever progress there's been can be entirely attributed to Howell. I get it, some people need a target to narrowly point to when they are in disagreement with others. I'll take the hit, but what I won't do is make assumptions about how "everyone else" believes he is.

oh, I’m not making assumptions, I’m actually reading their opinions. And yours.

So let me ponder. My bet is your position on Howell has evolved. Now, any success he had had is all due to scheme and EB. Know what I say to that? Great!!! I hope EB is making Howell the best quarterback he can be. Because all I care about is what is best for the team. I don’t get mixed upin those other issues like his Pedigree or where he was drafted, or the nebulous comment of “he is what he is”. Well, what he is right now is a young quarterback, who shows a lot of ability and a lot of upside. He is by no means a finished product, one way or another.

 

[Sportster 72]

It doesn't matter who is responsible for any growth displayed by Howell. In a good situation the folks work together to help the QB improve. Experience itself can be a teacher. Both Sam and EB have admitted that they are both growing in their positions.

What matters is that their is growth. I don't remember who I heard talking about this but whoever it was was talking to Brady and after many years Brady was relaying that he learns new things every year. Growth, learning and experience should never stop.

 

[j_y19]

When creating threads such as this you have to consider the realistic probability that not everyone believes that there has been growth, or that whatever progress there's been can be entirely attributed to Howell. I get it, some people need a target to narrowly point to when they are in disagreement with others. I'll take the hit, but what I won't do is make assumptions about how "everyone else" believes he is.

I have another question. Why is it you are so reticent to tell us what it is about Howell you so dislike? You’ve never answered that question.

 

[j_y19]

It doesn't matter who is responsible for any growth displayed by Howell. In a good situation the folks work together to help the QB improve. Experience itself can be a teacher. Both Sam and EB have admitted that they are both growing in their positions.

What matters is that their is growth. I don't remember who I heard talking about this but whoever it was was talking to Brady and after many years Brady was relaying that he learns new things every year. Growth, learning and experience should never stop.

It only matters if there is a point he is trying to prove.

 

[Stymietee]

I have another question. Why is it you are so reticent to tell us what it is about Howell you so dislike? You’ve never answered that question.

There's nothing about Howell that I dislike. I just don't see any change in him that he hadn't already displayed in school. Is he the best QB that this fan base has seen in quite a while? Absolutely!! You'd have to admit that from such a dismal perspective, it's a rather low bar from which to judge. So, to be absolutely clear, THERE'S NOTHING THAT I DISLIKE ABOUT HOWELL!

 

[Stymietee]

oh, I’m not making assumptions, I’m actually reading their opinions. And yours.

So let me ponder. My bet is your position on Howell has evolved. Now, any success he had had is all due to scheme and EB. Know what I say to that? Great!!! I hope EB is making Howell the best quarterback he can be. Because all I care about is what is best for the team. I don’t get mixed upin those other issues like his Pedigree or where he was drafted, or the nebulous comment of “he is what he is”. Well, what he is right now is a young quarterback, who shows a lot of ability and a lot of upside. He is by no means a finished product, one way or another.

Do you honestly believe that this weak offensive line has gotten better as displayed in the game against the Patriots?
Howell's release time dropped from over two seconds to 1.9 seconds in that game. In case you aren't aware, that's 100% scheme. You're 100% correct... Howell is what he is and thus far has been since his time at Carolina. What do you see as his "upside?" Beyond getting more comfortable playing at the NFL level?

 

[Stymietee]

It only matters if there is a point he is trying to prove.

Seriously dude, take a little bit of time to read these other threads! In them there are questions and opinions about EB staying here or becoming HC. In others there are questions and opinions about Howell. Since one is influenced by the other, how on earth do you fail to see that the point is not about something that I have to prove but to what degree those influences have been on performance?

 

[j_y19]

Seriously dude, take a little bit of time to read these other threads! In them there are questions and opinions about EB staying here or becoming HC. In others there are questions and opinions about Howell. Since one is influenced by the other, how on earth do you fail to see that the point is not about something that I have to prove but to what degree those influences have been on performance?

Oh. So this poll is about EB? Now I see. So why isn’t the phrasing about how much as Howell has or has not helped EB?

 

[j_y19]

Do you honestly believe that this weak offensive line has gotten better as displayed in the game against the Patriots?
Howell's release time dropped from over two seconds to 1.9 seconds in that game. In case you aren't aware, that's 100% scheme. You're 100% correct... Howell is what he is and thus far has been since his time at Carolina. What do you see as his "upside?" Beyond getting more comfortable playing at the NFL level?

No it’s not 100% scheme. The player still has to pull the trigger! Does scheme dictate much of this. Of course. Name a qb who was not a product of his scheme? A good scheme plays to the players strength.

 

[j_y19]

There's nothing about Howell that I dislike. I just don't see any change in him that he hadn't already displayed in school. Is he the best QB that this fan base has seen in quite a while? Absolutely!! You'd have to admit that from such a dismal perspective, it's a rather low bar from which to judge. So, to be absolutely clear, THERE'S NOTHING THAT I DISLIKE ABOUT HOWELL!

You just said in another thread that Sam has improved his release time. Isn’t that improvement?

 

[Sportster 72]

It only matters if there is a point he is trying to prove.

I hear you but what difference if it is EB 70% or vice versa. It took a year for Pat Mahomes to be who has become. Oddly enough he has had a career path in playing time that matches Mahomes. Patrick started the last game of his rookie year and has been the starter since.

That is why I found this an odd post. You want coaches to help make players better as well as you want young players to continue to grow.

In some ways Howell's draft position means little to me. The year before he was being looked at as the first QB out. The team lost a bunch of players and Howell actually had to play/run more than in the past.

 

[j_y19]

It doesn’t matter And it is an odd post. But Sty has been anti Howell since we signed jacoby Brissett, at least.