No deadline set for Coyotes possible move

[Cobiemonster]

Im not saying the Yotes should stay. But move the team wherever you like. If it's mismanaged and run shitty like it is now they won't succede in another city either.

Get a good product on the ice and an actual owner and they have a shot to actually sell tickets.

People here aren't buying season tickets when the fate of the team has been up in the air for years now.

Exactly

I'll give Portland as an example - they say they have great fans but give them a shitty roster right from the get-go and they end up being bad for numerous years, it's not going to be pretty there either

 

[forty_three]

The teams have sucked for the huge majority of their existences, how can you blame fans for not showing up? At least there's competent management in one of those two places that have a chance to build a good team for once

If I kept trying to sell you a shitty product when I'm a no-namer, would you buy it? Nope - it's the same thing here, those teams had/have been selling shitty products for years and people think the fans are supposed to buy it - fans aren't wasting their time when the team has sucked for years

Also, there probably aren't many true hockey fans because they don't end up having an emotional attachment to that team(Panthers and Coyotes) because those teams aren't winning - when the teams start winning, fans will start to warm to them and have an emotional attachment and eventually they're start becoming true hockey fans - everyone has to start somewhere

Then my question is, what have these teams done for the game in their cities? Do they care about the game of hockey or do they only expect the product of the NHL to be the cash cow?

I live in a city that has a team that has made the playoffs exactly twice in their 15 year history. So yes, I understand that on ice product does hurt attendance. But "hurting attendance" to the point where 12k show up is still ultimately better than hurting attendance to the point where 3k show up.

And the difference is the Jackets pay a bunch of money to provide full gear to anyone who asks for it. They offer a lot of money and effort to build and maintain the 8 rinks with 11 sheets of ice in them. They do a lot with local schools, they have parties in the arena where kids get to skate on the big sheet with that giant bee thing. They build playgrounds, fill libraries, have players come read to students. They are EVERYWHERE.

And what you have is now a second generation that is growing up with the team. The kids who were trying rec hockey for free when the team first showed up now have kids of their own. Those people are the ones filling the seats. And their kids now are playing, and they love the game. I know of four roller hockey rinks around town and they are always full. Now they have three kids who are products of this youth hockey program that are NHL draft picks. Lots for youth hockey players now to look up to. And in ten-fifteen years, these kids will have their own kids, and those kids will be playing. And tickets should be real hard to come by then. And it doesn't really matter the success of the team, although I hope there are a few banners hanging by then.

Columbus would have failed if they just threw open the door and said "look, hockey". There are two ways to approach expansion. To make money or to grow the game. It's why I am against Las Vegas. I don't see us having a bumper crop of young players drafted out of Vegas in ten years. Because it's a money grab selling the show, not a game growth initiative.

Hockey is already growing in Portland. Washington State has seen growth as well. Pump some money into it build excitement and save some kids from playing basketball.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Hockey is growing in the valley

Arizona State actually won their league last year and they'll be bumped to D1 in 16/17
Arizona State to have Division I hockey in 2016-17 - NHL.com - News

 

[Cobiemonster]

Then my question is, what have these teams done for the game in their cities? Do they care about the game of hockey or do they only expect the product of the NHL to be the cash cow?

I live in a city that has a team that has made the playoffs exactly twice in their 15 year history. So yes, I understand that on ice product does hurt attendance. But "hurting attendance" to the point where 12k show up is still ultimately better than hurting attendance to the point where 3k show up.

And the difference is the Jackets pay a bunch of money to provide full gear to anyone who asks for it. They offer a lot of money and effort to build and maintain the 8 rinks with 11 sheets of ice in them. They do a lot with local schools, they have parties in the arena where kids get to skate on the big sheet with that giant bee thing. They build playgrounds, fill libraries, have players come read to students. They are EVERYWHERE.

And what you have is now a second generation that is growing up with the team. The kids who were trying rec hockey for free when the team first showed up now have kids of their own. Those people are the ones filling the seats. And their kids now are playing, and they love the game. I know of four roller hockey rinks around town and they are always full. Now they have three kids who are products of this youth hockey program that are NHL draft picks. Lots for youth hockey players now to look up to. And in ten-fifteen years, these kids will have their own kids, and those kids will be playing. And tickets should be real hard to come by then. And it doesn't really matter the success of the team, although I hope there are a few banners hanging by then.

Columbus would have failed if they just threw open the door and said "look, hockey". There are two ways to approach expansion. To make money or to grow the game. It's why I am against Las Vegas. I don't see us having a bumper crop of young players drafted out of Vegas in ten years. Because it's a money grab selling the show, not a game growth initiative.

Hockey is already growing in Portland. Washington State has seen growth as well. Pump some money into it build excitement and save some kids from playing basketball.

I'm sure Arizona and Florida do plenty for their community and it doesn't have to always be about kids PLAYING hockey - to me, as long as those kids enjoy watching the game and following it, that is something that can be passed down to future generations - I started following the game when I was 12-13-ish and I never PLAYED the game but I loved watching it and following it and you can still pass that down to others

All it takes is one owner to come in and change everything, it's like relationships - just because it failed once doesn't mean that everyone of the opposite sex sucks and that they're all the same - yeah teams like Arizona and Florida had bad ownership in the past but at least in Florida, they're off to a good start with the new ownership and smart decisions are being made right now - it's not much different in CBJ either, for a while bad management had been taking place and if they had continued down that path for another 4-5 years, they could have been in a not so good situation - it took a guy like JD to come in and realize to everyone that it could be a great place if everyone got their act together - now people are sold on them and I think that is one of the big differences

 

[BGDave]

Hockey is growing in the valley

Arizona State actually won their league last year and they'll be bumped to D1 in 16/17
Arizona State to have Division I hockey in 2016-17 - NHL.com - News

Not sure I follow you on this.

I looked up the 15-16 roster on the ASU website. 30 players, 5 players from AZ (good), 6 from Canada. Most of the rest are from the Northeast. If the ASU was comprised mostly of local players, I see your point. But its not. 5 players out of 30 isnt a great stat. To be fair, before looking I was expecting 0 from AZ, so that was a surprise.

Were you referring more to attendance?

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Not sure I follow you on this.

I looked up the 15-16 roster on the ASU website. 30 players, 5 players from AZ (good), 6 from Canada. Most of the rest are from the Northeast. If the ASU was comprised mostly of local players, I see your point. But its not. 5 players out of 30 isnt a great stat. To be fair, before looking I was expecting 0 from AZ, so that was a surprise.

Were you referring more to attendance?

Just that the game is growing here and like you said 5 kids from AZ is a good step

Plus it gets students exposure to the game becuase the team does well

 

[Comeds]

Move the team to downtown Phoenix, try it for a decade and a half and see how it goes.

 

[forty_three]

I'm sure Arizona and Florida do plenty for their community and it doesn't have to always be about kids PLAYING hockey - to me, as long as those kids enjoy watching the game and following it, that is something that can be passed down to future generations - I started following the game when I was 12-13-ish and I never PLAYED the game but I loved watching it and following it and you can still pass that down to others

All it takes is one owner to come in and change everything, it's like relationships - just because it failed once doesn't mean that everyone of the opposite sex sucks and that they're all the same - yeah teams like Arizona and Florida had bad ownership in the past but at least in Florida, they're off to a good start with the new ownership and smart decisions are being made right now - it's not much different in CBJ either, for a while bad management had been taking place and if they had continued down that path for another 4-5 years, they could have been in a not so good situation - it took a guy like JD to come in and realize to everyone that it could be a great place if everyone got their act together - now people are sold on them and I think that is one of the big differences

How many different owners have tried in each place? I forget. I am sure if they keep trying, they will get it right. Catering only to people who are looking for something to do for an evening, HAS to work eventually.

And it is true that just because something failed once before isn't proof it will again. San Jose and Colorado have both been incredibly successful. I wonder what they did that, say, Atlanta didn't...

As for the Blue Jackets success coming down to John Davidson.... I won't respond. I try to ignore hogwash. Suffice it to say that Scott Howson and Doug MacLean failed in putting a good team on the ice. There's more to a team than that one Mahogany office. A lot more.

 

[forty_three]

Hockey is growing in the valley

Arizona State actually won their league last year and they'll be bumped to D1 in 16/17
Arizona State to have Division I hockey in 2016-17 - NHL.com - News

That's great, but I still wonder if that growth would have happened if the team wasn't there. I mean the overall growth numbers for the game nationwide are right on par with where Arizona is. And at a collegiate level, more and more teams want to play in higher divisions, so they have to get players from somewhere.

5 locals is awesome though. I didn't know that.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

i dont think university #'s are a good gauge ... id like to see the highschool numbers ... I heard Lucky Pierre say they have a top calibre high school league what ever that means ... it did produce Auston Matthews


Sunrise, FLA probably has good roller hockey reg.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

oooh not good numbers for the youngin's

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0076/8943/Arizona2014-15Report.pdf

/disregard that comment ... the % lost red negative figure caught my eye lol


total reg. is up 126% from last year

 

[Comeds]

Seriously though, and again I think the team should move immediately, I really do think the consistency of the on ice product and the off ice turmoil has affected the number of fans in the seats. Why get invested in the team if they usually suck and/or they are always rumored to be on the move?

I could care less about 'growing the game'. Put the team in a good market and the game will grow organically. I remember reading lots of articles about how much the Thrashers and particularly Bob Hartley were doing to grow the game and that never led to more fans in the seats. Probably because they were awful for 15 years. If two teams move and/or are created they should immediately go into proven markets, not iffy places in order to grow the game. The game is fine.

Also its well known that fans staying away in 'good markets' can mean they are upset with ownership and the direction of the team or it could mean many other things, but its necessarily mean they are bad fans. Fans in 'bad markets' that stay away for any reason are just proving they are bad fans.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

ok the florida numbers are the ones that are not good lol

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0076/8950/Florida2014-15Report.pdf

 

[jstewismybastardson]

btw ... 8 and under age category i was looking at

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Seriously though, and again I think the team should move immediately, I really do think the consistency of the on ice product and the off ice turmoil has affected the number of fans in the seats. Why get invested in the team if they usually suck and/or they are always rumored to be on the move?

I still think they will increase the attendance by moving into the downtown core but at this point it would probably be a minimal increase as this franchise is beyond turmoil now ... the brand is near dead in this market

 

[jstewismybastardson]

oh icymi ... the North Phoenix ranter fan should buy the team if she has all that money to blow

 

[dash]

If two teams move and/or are created they should immediately go into proven markets, not iffy places in order to grow the game. The game is fine.

Exactly, comeds. With the internet, HDTV, and social media, if you want to get invested in hockey, you'll get invested. If you don't, you won't. Gretzky's sale to LA was the biggest thing to grow the game in the US, but the game of hockey has likely grown as much as it can in North America. Lastly, I couldn't care less about ratings or popularity, I care mostly about the on-ice product which in my opinion is very good.

 

[forty_three]

oooh not good numbers for the youngin's

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0076/8943/Arizona2014-15Report.pdf

/disregard that comment ... the % lost red negative figure caught my eye lol


total reg. is up 126% from last year

Pretty good increase in numbers, but the retention figures are really behind. Kids are trying it, but not coming back. Less than half the 7 year olds who played came back as 8 year olds. National average is 77%

That's what needs to stay up there.

ok the florida numbers are the ones that are not good lol

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0076/8950/Florida2014-15Report.pdf

I always wish they'd split Florida up. I wonder how much of Florida's numbers are in Tampa...

 

[BGDave]

5 locals is awesome though. I didn't know that.

PLUS

One young man on the 15-16 team hails from,

Wait for it

You wont believe it


.
.
.



Las Vegas.

 

[forty_three]

PLUS

One young man on the 15-16 team hails from,

Wait for it

You wont believe it


.
.
.



Las Vegas.

When his brother starts, that'll be 100% growth!