NFL Top 100

[dude82]

Well for one I thought Wayne was too high.

And secondly it comes down to the fact Luck attempted 627 passes so with that many attempts and Wayne being your best WR it's only natural he's going to have inflated numbers. I mean was targeted 196 times which was tied for second with Brandon Marshall who was another guy that happened to make the list this week.

If you gave Wilson 627 pass attempts and Sidney Rice 196 targets he's likely going to make the list somewhere.

There are going to be a lot of debates about who should have been where on the list and who should have been on it and who shouldn't have been on it. Players voted on the list, but since every team doesn't play every other team every year, some of the newer players that haven't been around for very long (and, by extension, haven't gone up against every other voting player in the league yet) probably got the short end of the stick on this list because there's less familiarity with them around the league and less information for those voters to go on than for some of the veteran players. Does that make any sense or am I just rambling?

 

[Jikkle]

I've heard the argument that Luck's team was so much less talented than the Seahawks or Redskins, and I just don't put much stock in it. Even if it were true, which it very well may be, he was also helped a great deal by the schedule.

Independent opponents winning percentage (Opp W & L minus outcome of games against the Colts) was by far the lowest of the three teams. When not playing the Colts, their opponents won 45% (108-132) of their games, as opposed to 50.2% ((120-119-1) for the Redskins and 51.7% (122-114-4) for the Seahawks. The Colts also faced teams that were 2-14 three times while the worst team the Redskins faces was 4-12 (Eagles) and the Seahawks 4-12 (Lions; Colts also faced the Lions).

The Colts played 6 games against 10 win teams (6 for Seattle 4 for Washington) and 10 against teams with losing records (9 for Seattle and 7 for Washington). The Colts did play 5 play off teams, as did Seattle while Washington played 4.

As for the defenses faces, the Colts average defense faces was 18th (17th against the pass and 18th against the run). The Redskins was 19th (19th pass, 18th run) and the Seahawks was 13 (13th pass 16th run).

To take it a step further, by removing the games that were played against the Colts (Seahawks and Redskins, respectively) you get a different set of numbers. Overall defense, Colts opponents gave up 351.67 yards per game (again not including the games against the Colts) which would have ranked 18th. The Redskins gave up 353.49, which would have been ranked 18th as well, but obviously was more than the Colts opps. gave up. While the Seahawks opponents gave up 336.48, which would have been 11th.

Against the run, Colts Opp 121.0 ypg (20th), Washington Opp. 114.52 (15th) and Seattle Opp. 113.68 (also 15th). Against the pass. Colts Opp. 230.67 (20th), Redskins Opp. 238.97 (22nd) and Seattle Opp. 222.81 (12th).

Now this has been a long winded argument about how that even if Luck had less talent on his team than RGIII or Wilson, the competition he was facing wasn't as good (didn't win as much as RGIII's or win as much or have nearly as tough of defenses as Wilson's opponents). In the end, I really just don't see how Luck's season was better than Wilson's at all.

Wilson's first half of the season drags him down a bit as he was pretty average and the Hawks relied a lot on the running game and defense to win. You could argue that was due to playcalling but it's still is what it is.

I give Luck a slight nod because despite the worse competition he still was the primary factor in his team's success. Whereas Wilson was just one factor in the team's success.

That's not a knock on Wilson but a testament to the fact he wasn't asked to shoulder the load because he didn't need to. The running game and defense were just as important to the Hawks winning as Wilson was.

 

[Jikkle]

There are going to be a lot of debates about who should have been where on the list and who should have been on it and who shouldn't have been on it. Players voted on the list, but since every team doesn't play every other team every year, some of the newer players that haven't been around for very long (and, by extension, haven't gone up against every other voting player in the league yet) probably got the short end of the stick on this list because there's less familiarity with them around the league and less information for those voters to go on than for some of the veteran players. Does that make any sense or am I just rambling?

I completely understand where your coming from which is why I initially didn't have a problem with Kaep being at 81.

But when you rank Luck at 23 and RGIII somewhere (likely) in the teens it's not like the players have seen a ton of those guys either especially in comparison to Kaep. The voting was during the Pro Bowl so the players counting the playoffs the players saw Luck and RGIII 17 times, Wilson 18, and Kaep 10. And if you want to grind it down further 9 different teams saw Kaep, 15 Wilson, and 14 Luck and RGIII when you factor in divisional opponents.

I expected a gap but not one that wide.

 

[Screamin12th]

Like i have said before, Luck's numbers are on par with Lockers, its just Locker did not have the attempts or total yards as Luck. But the comp % QB rating yards per pass and INT's per attempt were very close. If Luck is a top 25 then that means Locker is also by their standards and i believe no one here would believe that. Locker has a worse team than Luck also so does that mean he gets even more "bonus faked made-up props" than Luck?

lol

 

[dude82]

I completely understand where your coming from which is why I initially didn't have a problem with Kaep being at 81.

But when you rank Luck at 23 and RGIII somewhere (likely) in the teens it's not like the players have seen a ton of those guys either especially in comparison to Kaep. The voting was during the Pro Bowl so the players counting the playoffs the players saw Luck and RGIII 17 times, Wilson 18, and Kaep 10. And if you want to grind it down further 9 different teams saw Kaep, 15 Wilson, and 14 Luck and RGIII when you factor in divisional opponents.

I expected a gap but not one that wide.

I guess for those two it probably came down to all the hype that surrounded them during their college careers (it was a longer period of hype for Luck, but probably a bigger volume of hype for Griffin based on what he did in his final year in college, with the video game numbers he put up) and heading into the draft, combined with what they did on the field by seemingly meeting (and possibly exceeding) the hype in certain ways once they got to the NFL. I guarantee that the hype for those guys reverberated around the league before they even took a snap at the NFL level. How could it not? Kaepernick and Wilson, by comparison, had nowhere near that amount of hype leading up to their selections and it wasn't until they each got the starting nod for their teams (Kaepernick in year two and Wilson in year one) that people really started talking about them. In other words, Luck and RGIII got a head start in terms of hype and clearly hype holds some weight with the players as long as the subjects of the hype don't fall on their faces. Did I use the word "hype" too often there?

 

[blstoker]

So, Bob Griffin is #15.

 

[Jikkle]

So my guess for the top 10 would be

1. Rodgers
2. Peterson
3. Brady
4. Manning
5. Calvin Johnson
6. JJ Watt
7. Von Miller
8. Aldon Smith
9. Patrick Willis
10. Foster?

Could only think of 9 guys that will be there but couldn't think of the 10th. Foster I don't think has been revealed yet and I don't see him completely dropping off the list but top 10 seems too high for him though.

 

[Jikkle]

And man do the players sooooo overrate Ed Reed.

 

[gowazzu02]

Wow aldon smith as a top 10 player in the entire league. I just don't see it. He does have great sack totals but he disappeared when Justin smith got hurt.

 

[Jikkle]

Wow aldon smith as a top 10 player in the entire league. I just don't see it. He does have great sack totals but he disappeared when Justin smith got hurt.

Aldon Smith had a torn labrum in his shoulder that contributed to his lack of sacks towards the end of the season. I'm not saying Justin Smith hurting wasn't a factor but I think the shoulder was a bigger factor.

And if Von Miller is a top 10 player I don't see how you can't have Aldon Smith one as well (unless Miller is #10) since their numbers are pretty close.

I wouldn't put him ahead of Miller or Watt but he's in that same conversation.

 

[Rvnight18]

Wow aldon smith as a top 10 player in the entire league. I just don't see it. He does have great sack totals but he disappeared when Justin smith got hurt.

Sorry, but this is the biggest line of bull that people throw out about Aldon. And the ones who do have no clue what they are talking about. Aldon tore his labrum around the same time as Justin got hurt. Everybody leaves that out though. He only needed surgery and was on the injury list every week and not practicing during the week, but hey it is only because Justin was out or injured. You know not all of Aldon record number of sacks have happened on Justin's side of the line.

Sorry if this comes of "dickish" but I am tired of hearing it. Nobody will point out Aldon had a serious injury himself. Maybe people need to Give credit where credit is due.

 

[gowazzu02]

Sorry, but this is the biggest line of bull that people throw out about Aldon. And the ones who do have no clue what they are talking about. Aldon tore his labrum around the same time as Justin got hurt. Everybody leaves that out though. He only needed surgery and was on the injury list every week and not practicing during the week, but hey it is only because Justin was out or injured. You know not all of Aldon record number of sacks have happened on Justin's side of the line.

Sorry if this comes of "dickish" but I am tired of hearing it. Nobody will point out Aldon had a serious injury himself. Maybe people need to Give credit where credit is due.

If you are tired of hearing this then by all means go to your SF board. Im sure theres plenty of people who think Aldon Smith is the best player in nfl history and will refute the facts that he was nowhere to be found when Justin Smith was out.

This is big boy football. Hurt or injured. If he was hurt, join the club people play through being hurt all the time.

 

[JDM]

So, Bob Griffin is #15.

I did agree that he was miles above the next young QB but 15 is nuts. I believe in 2-3 years he will be top 5, but 15 for last season is high.

 

[Rvnight18]

If you are tired of hearing this then by all means go to your SF board. Im sure theres plenty of people who think Aldon Smith is the best player in nfl history and will refute the facts that he was nowhere to be found when Justin Smith was out.

This is big boy football. Hurt or injured. If he was hurt, join the club people play through being hurt all the time.

He played through the injury. But a torn labrum kind of hurts a pass rusher. I never claimed he was the best player ever. Just pointing out your flawed and false claim. You are perfectly allowed to be wrong and be contempt in being wrong. But you will still be wrong.

 

[gowazzu02]

He played through the injury. But a torn labrum kind of hurts a pass rusher. I never claimed he was the best player ever. Just pointing out your flawed and false claim. You are perfectly allowed to be wrong and be contempt in being wrong. But you will still be wrong.

Wow you know what your right. How incredibly UNLUCKY of Aldon Smith to get hurt the EXACT same second that Justin Smith got hurt.


OR lets take a look at Aldons production with justin v without him. Numbers dont lie.

Chicago week 11 Aldon 5.5 sacks
New Orleans week 12 aldon 1.5
STL week 13 Aldon 1 sack
Miami week 14 Aldon 2 sacks
!!!!NEW ENGLAND JUSTIN SMITH GETS HURt!!!!!! Aldon 0 sacks
Seattle Aldon 0 sacks
Arizona Aldon 0 sacks
Green Bay Aldon 0 sacks
Atl Aldon 0 sacks
Baltimore Aldon 0 sacks.

Boom.

 

[Rvnight18]

Aldon Smith was on the injury report for the last 9 games. 6 regular and 3 playoff. Incase you didn't see he had a torn labrum and need surgery. Boom!

 

[gowazzu02]

Aldon Smith was on the injury report for the last 9 games. 6 regular and 3 playoff. Incase you didn't see he had a torn labrum and need surgery. Boom!

Um,,,, did you just accidentally make my point for me.

Here is the game by game totals I just posted. starting in week 11. So if he was on the injury report for the last 6 regular season games. That starts at the New orleans game wk 12. he got 4.5 sacks in games on the injury report WITH justin Smith (3 games). He got 0 sacks while on the injury report withOUT justin smith. 6 games

Chicago week 11 Aldon 5.5 sacks
New Orleans week 12 aldon 1.5
STL week 13 Aldon 1 sack
Miami week 14 Aldon 2 sacks
!!!!NEW ENGLAND JUSTIN SMITH GETS HURt!!!!!! Aldon 0 sacks
Seattle Aldon 0 sacks
Arizona Aldon 0 sacks
Green Bay Aldon 0 sacks
Atl Aldon 0 sacks
Baltimore Aldon 0 sacks.

 

[Rvnight18]

No I didnt make your point, it got worse and worse untill it tore completely. If you watched games you would know this. Aldon even stated he thought it was just a stingerat first.

 

[blstoker]

No I didnt make your point, it got worse and worse untill it tore completely. If you watched games you would know this. Aldon even stated he thought it was just a stingerat first.

I can respect a guy who plays through injury, but that changes nothing about the fact that the guy was a non factor for the last 6 games of the 9ers season. Not only did he not get a sack in that time, he also only recorded 8 tackles. I know that numbers don't always tell the story, but those are Red Bryant type numbers, not what you want out of you pass rushing LB.

 

[gowazzu02]

I can respect a guy who plays through injury, but that changes nothing about the fact that the guy was a non factor for the last 6 games of the 9ers season. Not only did he not get a sack in that time, he also only recorded 8 tackles. I know that numbers don't always tell the story, but those are Red Bryant type numbers, not what you want out of you pass rushing LB.

And more specifically not top 10 players in the entire league production....which is what started this whole spat between me and rv