NFL Awards and 2016 Hall of Famers

[Nosferatu]

...i'm glad to,....his recent death probably had something to do with it,...sad.

Agreed, that probably had something to do with it but he should have been in before he passed!

 

[Nosferatu]

....Owens should've gotten in before Harrison.......but i'm glad Warner has to wait like everyone else, his network/exposure ain't helping him unlike a few of his tv-cohorts,......eventually everybody will get in = except jerry Kramer...?!

I'm thinking maybe kick Lynn Swann out and put TO in!

 

[RegentDenali]

DeBartolo has no fucking business being in the HOF. For a couple years, he was just the Steinbrenner of the NFL as there was no real cap. He just outspent everyone else and bought some championships.

As soon as a real cap was imposed, the 9ers took a nose dive.

 

[NinerSickness]

No Warner in the HoF

That's insane.

Top 5 all time.

 

[Battlelyon]

I have a feeling next years class will include TO, Warner, and L.T.

That in itself is all kinds of good.

 

[Nosferatu]

DeBartolo has no fucking business being in the HOF. For a couple years, he was just the Steinbrenner of the NFL as there was no real cap. He just outspent everyone else and bought some championships.

As soon as a real cap was imposed, the 9ers took a nose dive.

No other owner has 5 Super Bowl Championships.

 

[Nosferatu]

That's insane.

Top 5 all time.

Top 5 what all time? Rams QB's?

 

[NinerSickness]

Top 5 what all time? Rams QB's?

Top 5 QB of all time. Warner was insanely accurate & efficient. I calculated the average of every QB in the league during his tenure as a QB, and he had the 2nd highest YPA against the average in the history of the game (at the time; I did that back in 2009).

And he was clutch in the postseason. The Patriots cheated and stole what should've been a 2nd ring from him, and getting screwed on a call against the Steelers in the SB (the non-call on the block in the back on Fitz during Harrison's pick 6) probably cost him another. Postseason numbers should carry more weight than they do IMO (which is why I think Troy Aikman is underappreciated).

And I'm a hostile witness. I'm a Niners fan! I couldn't stand the guy.

 

[Battlelyon]

 

[Nosferatu]

Top 5 QB of all time. Warner was insanely accurate & efficient. I calculated the average of every QB in the league during his tenure as a QB, and he had the 2nd highest YPA against the average in the history of the game. And he was clutch in the postseason. The Patriots cheated and stole what should've been a 2nd ring from him, and getting screwed on a call against the Steelers in the SB (the non-call on the block in the back on Fitz during Harrison's pick 6) probably cost him another. Postseason numbers should carry more weight than they do IMO (which is why I think Troy Aikman is underappreciated).

And I'm a hostile witness. I'm a Niners fan! I couldn't stand the guy.

I respect your opinion. I just don't play what ifs and IMO he in no way is top 5 all time.

Just for conversation purposes, which three of these guys does he bump?

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Johnny Unitas
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Steve Young

 

[cdumler7]

.....rotate them every few years,....I hear they want to give each member a 10-year/term
= not lifetime.

I wish congress would do something similar. It does seem crazy to me to keep the same people voting over and over. They will develop certain things they are always looking for such as for the HOF. It used to be that if you had a point in your career of greatness and they could see that you were the heart of a championship caliber team stats were thrown out. Now with our Fantasy Football era it does seem that stats matter more than anything unless you have a terrible personality like TO.

 

[NinerSickness]

Just for conversation purposes, which three of these guys does he bump?

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Johnny Unitas
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Steve Young

Brady because his legacy is tainted by a decade of cheating.

Marino easily.

Rodgers is still playing and has alot of years ahead of him, so its too early; he could end up being the best QB who ever played at the rate he's going (ouch).

Johnny U was so long ago that it's hard to compare the two. Wasn't alive when he played. So maybe I should've said "since the 80's" instead of "all time."

An argument could be made that he was better than Peyton, (post season numbers) but I'll leave Peyton alone 'til tomorrow.

Steve Young is the most efficient QB of all time (against the average), but because of his shorter career (thanks to Montana keeping him on the bench), I'd say Warner might deserve more credit than Young. Maybe. I'd have to think about that though. Young was an offensive machine.

At worst, he's top 6 or 7 IMO. But maybe even top 4 because I don't respect Brady. I'm part of the 3% of the population + the creators of South Park who actually believes that cheaters shouldn't be honored.

 

[RegentDenali]

No other owner has 5 Super Bowl Championships.

They were dirty as fuck.


In December 1997, facing rumors of an impending federal indictment on fraud, racketeering and/or bribery charges relating to his gambling dealings in Louisiana, Edward DeBartolo, Jr. signed an agreement giving managing control of the 49ers to his sister, Denise DeBartolo York.

At the same time, the 49ers were investigated by the NFL for side deals to circumvent the salary cap (made players appear to be taking pay cuts to make the cap, when they were paying them off the books and promising them they would get anything else owed when they retired). The side deals included Steve Young, Lee Woodall, and Jim Druckenmiller.

In 1994, they magically found a way to sign no less than 8 FAs, (6 were fucking pro-bowlers) and claim they had shaved 16 million to make the 34 million salary cap at the same time.

 

[Nosferatu]

They were dirty as fuck.


In December 1997, facing rumors of an impending federal indictment on fraud, racketeering and/or bribery charges relating to his gambling dealings in Louisiana, Edward DeBartolo, Jr. signed an agreement giving managing control of the 49ers to his sister, Denise DeBartolo York.

At the same time, the 49ers were investigated by the NFL for side deals to circumvent the salary cap (made players appear to be taking pay cuts to make the cap, when they were paying them off the books and promising them they would get anything else owed when they retired). The side deals included Steve Young, Lee Woodall, and Jim Druckenmiller.

In 1994, they magically found a way to sign no less than 8 FAs, (6 were fucking pro-bowlers) and claim they had shaved 16 million to make the 34 million salary cap at the same time.

I agree he was shady but still at the end of the day his team won 5 Super Bowls. It's not the NFL Hall of really nice guys.

 

[Nosferatu]

Brady because his legacy is tainted by a decade of cheating.

Marino easily.

Rodgers is still playing and has alot of years ahead of him, so its too early; he could end up being the best QB who ever played at the rate he's going (ouch).

Johnny U was so long ago that it's hard to compare the two. Wasn't alive when he played. So maybe I should've said "since the 80's" instead of "all time."

An argument could be made that he was better than Peyton, (post season numbers) but I'll leave Peyton alone 'til tomorrow.

Steve Young is the most efficient QB of all time (against the average), but because of his shorter career (thanks to Montana keeping him on the bench), I'd say Warner might deserve more credit than Young. Maybe. I'd have to think about that though. Young was an offensive machine.

At worst, he's top 6 or 7 IMO. But maybe even top 4 because I don't respect Brady. I'm part of the 3% of the population + the creators of South Park who actually believes that cheaters shouldn't be honored.

Absolutely in no way is Warner better than Marino. I don't like Brady at all but i'm betting you are in a very small minority who'd take Warner over him. I'd be pretty surprised if anyone would take Warner over Manning too. Rodgers could retire tomorrow and he's still better than Warner. Steve Young started 143 games, Warner started 116.

 

[NinerSickness]

Warner was leaps and bounds better than Brett - pick 6 - Favre.

 

[cdumler7]

Warner was leaps and bounds better than Brett - pick 6 - Favre.

Favre to me is one of the most overhyped players in NFL history. His longevity which helped pad so many of his stats is why he is so highly regarded but to me way too often he was a liability for his team. Just seemed like when his team needed a huge play from him he would try to fit the ball into triple coverage every time. He always seemed like he had to prove he could throw it where no one else could and well it worked like once every ten times but that one time would make him decide he could do it every time. He to me was much better earlier in his career than in the middle and late years. Got too big of a head early on.

 

[Duffman]

Those are Kurt Warner's career numbers from NFL.com. Now I'm sure some people see it but to me being a good/great QB for 6 out of the 12 years you played and especially being below average from 2002-2006 doesn't scream HOF material.

 

[Battlelyon]

View attachment 86484


Those are Kurt Warner's career numbers from NFL.com. Now I'm sure some people see it but to me being a good/great QB for 6 out of the 12 years you played and especially sucking from 2002-2006 doesn't scream HOF material.

Make a list of quarterbacks that have led their team to three Super Bowls. Now lets shorten that list by adding in the part about a quarterback doing it with three different coaches, ok now how about leading two different franchises to the Super Bowl.

Champion: Check
Awards: Check
Postseason play: Check
Postseason winning record: Check (9-4)

Everything you would ask for a Hall of Fame quarterback.

 

[Duffman]

Make a list of quarterbacks that have led their team to three Super Bowls. Now lets shorten that list by adding in the part about a quarterback doing it with three different coaches, ok now how about leading two different franchises to the Super Bowl.

Champion: Check
Awards: Check
Postseason play: Check
Postseason winning record: Check (9-4)

Everything you would ask for a Hall of Fame quarterback.

1 SB win is impressive, too bad he doesn't have the stats to justify a HOF career.

Jesus Christ Matt Ryan and Jay Cutler have about the same numbers as Kurt Warner(Ryan actually has better). You're really overestimating the value of his 1 SB victory.

No one's saying Kurt Warner is trash but there is no way he belongs in the HOF.