nebraska's Incognito

[starbigd]

Martin did what he did and Incognito is now suspended from the Dolphins and is unlikely to return. Seems the issue has been resolved without Martin resorting to violence.

Apparently, there are ways to bring resolution without having to punch someone out.

I don't think the issue has been resolved at all.

The problem is larger than Incognito. Like I said......Martin has a victim's mentality. He WILL get bullied again, possibly by another teammate, but most likely by opposing teams. He's a marked man now because everyone knows he's easy to scare and push around.

This is why standing up for yourself WORKS. Bullies do it because they know you fear them. Once you take that out of the equation, you are no longer the victim.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

All this talk about not sticking up for yourself.

I just can't get on board with running off and telling on someone when you're a grown man.

That's just my opinion. Not saying any argument is right or wrong.

 

[Red_Alert]

All you do is very loudly and clearly in front of your teammates warn him that if he starts crap with you again, you will bust his ass.

The next time he does what he does, fuck popping him in the nose......you go upside his head with a helmet. I mean you knock his ass OUT, and make it as violent as possible. Yeah you'll pay a fine, but Incognito I don't think is likely to press charges.

However, your reputation is SET. NOBODY is fucking with you ever again.

If you value your Constitutional Rights. Do not take this clown's advise.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

If you value your Constitutional Rights. Do not take this clown's advise.

Yeah that's way too excessive.

When I say stand up for yourself, I just mean let that guy know you won't take his garbage anymore. I don't mean attempt to kill him, or give him brain damage.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't think the issue has been resolved at all.

The problem is larger than Incognito. Like I said......Martin has a victim's mentality. He WILL get bullied again, possibly by another teammate, but most likely by opposing teams. He's a marked man now because everyone knows he's easy to scare and push around.

This is why standing up for yourself WORKS. Bullies do it because they know you fear them. Once you take that out of the equation, you are no longer the victim.

I disagree. Look, I'm as old school as anyone and if I'm Jonathon Martin, I probably kick the crap out of Incognito.

However, I don't think that is the correct way to handle it in a workplace. Kicking the crap out of someone who is trying to harass/bully you on the streets or in a bar is one thing.

However, if you do that in your workplace, you will be out of a job and possibly in jail. Additionally, Martin is a rookie. If he chose your option, the Dolphins could deal with it by kicking him off the team. Much easier to get rid of a rookie than a proven NFL veteran.

By handling it the way he did, Martin forced the Dolphins AND the NFL to address the issue.

 

[starbigd]

If you value your Constitutional Rights. Do not take this clown's advise.

I'll admit I went a little overboard there. But my point still stands.

 

[starbigd]

I disagree. Look, I'm as old school as anyone and if I'm Jonathon Martin, I probably kick the crap out of Incognito.

However, I don't think that is the correct way to handle it in a workplace. Kicking the crap out of someone who is trying to harass/bully you on the streets or in a bar is one thing.

However, if you do that in your workplace, you will be out of a job and possibly in jail. Additionally, Martin is a rookie. If he chose your option, the Dolphins could deal with it by kicking him off the team. Much easier to get rid of a rookie than a proven NFL veteran.

By handling it the way he did, Martin forced the Dolphins AND the NFL to address the issue.

I think you're missing my point.

This issue with Incognito may be done. But NOT the bullying issue as a whole, especially not for Martin.

If you think opposing players aren't going to use this against him you're not paying attention. They KNOW he's easy to push around now. His life is about to get worse, not better. Until he addresses that issue within himself, and lets others know he won't be pushed around, he will continue to get pushed around.

 

[Red_Alert]

Yeah that's way too excessive.

When I say stand up for yourself, I just mean let that guy know you won't take his garbage anymore. I don't mean attempt to kill him, or give him brain damage.

I know what you mean. I've been in quite a few school and bar fights back in the day. My best friend growing up was named Dick Assman (Rick was his real name). It was fight on defending him against packs of trolls at least once a week.

Thankfully (as I matured) I realized that I had too much to lose before I got into real trouble.

I value my firearms, my job, my kids, etc..

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I know what you mean. I've been in quite a few school and bar fights back in the day. My best friend growing up was named Dick Assman (Rick was his real name). It was fight on defending him against packs of trolls at least once a week.

Thankfully (as I matured) I realized that I had too much to lose before I got into real trouble.

I value my firearms, my job, my kids, etc..

Yeah, I understand both opinions here.

If you worked in an Accounting Firm, then obviously you can not break out into a fight.

But this is an NFL team. If Martin had just ripped into him one time, nothing excessive. Just enough to let Incognito and the team know that he's not to be pushed around. I don't think there would be any charges filed. And we both know he wouldn't lose his job.

We see fighting in the NFL quite a bit. Fighting someone from another team, fighting teammates in practice.

That's all I'm suggesting here.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think you're missing my point.

This issue with Incognito may be done. But NOT the bullying issue as a whole, especially not for Martin.

If you think opposing players aren't going to use this against him you're not paying attention. They KNOW he's easy to push around now. His life is about to get worse, not better. Until he addresses that issue within himself, and lets others know he won't be pushed around, he will continue to get pushed around.

I'm not missing your point at all. If he chooses your option, he doesn't have to worry about other players using it against because he wouldn't be on the team for opponents to use it against him.

Additionally, opponents can only use words against him and only for 3 1/2 hours on a Sunday afternoon. During the game, there are rules to govern just how much he can be pushed around.

Also, the league will no doubt be addressing the issue league wide, so that will also limit any potential payback and/or further harassment.

 

[Red_Alert]

Yeah, I understand both opinions here.

If you worked in an Accounting Firm, then obviously you can not break out into a fight.

But this is an NFL team. If Martin had just ripped into him one time, nothing excessive. Just enough to let Incognito and the team know that he's not to be pushed around. I don't think there would be any charges filed. And we both know he wouldn't lose his job.

We see fighting in the NFL quite a bit. Fighting someone from another team, fighting teammates in practice.

That's all I'm suggesting here.

Incognito got into fights with teammates on the practice field all the time. I understand frustration there. The trenches are the toughest place to play.

Taking it off the field is where the problem lies.

 

[starbigd]

I'm not missing your point at all. If he chooses your option, he doesn't have to worry about other players using it against because he wouldn't be on the team for opponents to use it against him.

Additionally, opponents can only use words against him and only for 3 1/2 hours on a Sunday afternoon. During the game, there are rules to govern just how much he can be pushed around.

Also, the league will no doubt be addressing the issue league wide, so that will also limit any potential payback and/or further harassment.

I don't think my option is too far from what happens in locker rooms as it is. Players and teammates fight all the time. If he has talent, he'll play......they aren't going to kick him off the team unless his on field play declines.

The league will put a happy face on everything and say "nothing to see here" - they are incapable of policing the locker rooms of every team, nor do they really want to. They simply want the players to play and fans to pay money to see it.

Hazing has been around in the NFL from the beginning......this is a part of football culture. I find it questionable that EVERY player that has dealt with this in the past stood up for themselves and there was no issue.......but now if Martin does, there will be all kinds of prosecution, etc???

Not buying that.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't think my option is too far from what happens in locker rooms as it is. Players and teammates fight all the time. If he has talent, he'll play......they aren't going to kick him off the team unless his on field play declines.

The league will put a happy face on everything and say "nothing to see here" - they are incapable of policing the locker rooms of every team, nor do they really want to. They simply want the players to play and fans to pay money to see it.

Hazing has been around in the NFL from the beginning......this is a part of football culture. I find it questionable that EVERY player that has dealt with this in the past stood up for themselves and there was no issue.......but now if Martin does, there will be all kinds of prosecution, etc???

Not buying that.

I think that there is a difference between the "fights" that happen on the practice field and what you are suggesting.

Fights on a practice field are typically short and amount to a couple of guys grabbing each others facemask and punching each others helmets and pads. It gets broken up quickly, everyone laughs and the same 2 guys are hanging out having beers after practice.

What you are suggesting is much more serious, much more violent and could result in Martin being kicked off of the team.

If you've ever played football, then you know the difference between the fights that we see all of the time and what you are suggesting.

Incognito is kicked off the team and their wasn't even a fight. So yes, Martin as rookie, could have found himself kicked off the team.

 

[starbigd]

I think that there is a difference between the "fights" that happen on the practice field and what you are suggesting.

Fights on a practice field are typically short and amount to a couple of guys grabbing each others facemask and punching each others helmets and pads. It gets broken up quickly, everyone laughs and the same 2 guys are hanging out having beers after practice.

What you are suggesting is much more serious, much more violent and could result in Martin being kicked off of the team.

If you've ever played football, then you know the difference between the fights that we see all of the time and what you are suggesting.

HA!

I've been in the locker room of a state champion, and we had two guys go at it in the locker room, one getting his nose broken - he was a bleeder too, blood was everywhere. NOBODY got kicked off the team or even disciplined, and this was in HS.

They had their issue, punches were thrown, and it was over with. They moved on, and so did the team. I've also seen a lineman pick UP a senior that was hazing him, pin him to a locker, and tell him NO MORE. End of issue.

Standing up for yourself in my book will never be the wrong path to take. How far you go with it is up to you, and that may be where the problem lies.......but as long as you allow yourself to be pushed around, you have no one but yourself to blame......and it will never end. Too many jerks out here that look for every advantage they can get.

That said, we all have our opinions on how we would settle things. My opinion isn't any better than any of yours. Good talking with you guys, its good to get so many perspectives on this. My son is 8 now and he's thinking of playing......I want him to be prepared for this sort of thing.

 

[starbigd]

Oh, and for the record, Martin is not a rookie.

 

[trojanfan12]

HA!

I've been in the locker room of a state champion, and we had two guys go at it in the locker room, one getting his nose broken - he was a bleeder too, blood was everywhere. NOBODY got kicked off the team or even disciplined, and this was in HS.

They had their issue, punches were thrown, and it was over with. They moved on, and so did the team. I've also seen a lineman pick UP a senior that was hazing him, pin him to a locker, and tell him NO MORE. End of issue.

Standing up for yourself in my book will never be the wrong path to take. How far you go with it is up to you, and that may be where the problem lies.......but as long as you allow yourself to be pushed around, you have no one but yourself to blame......and it will never end. Too many jerks out here that look for every advantage they can get.

That said, we all have our opinions on how we would settle things. My opinion isn't any better than any of yours. Good talking with you guys, its good to get so many perspectives on this. My son is 8 now and he's thinking of playing......I want him to be prepared for this sort of thing.

I agree with you for the most part. I've been in my fair share of locker rooms up into college and have seen and participated in what you describe my fair share of times.

The NFL and major colleges tend to be different though. Incognito was kicked off of 2 college teams and is one his 3rd (I believe) NFL team and he always has to leave because of the same crap. There's a point where you have to handle things the way Martin did to expedite his departure.

Clearly, Incognito doesn't get it and it doesn't appear that Martin standing up to him physically wasn't likely to change that.

Believe me, my first response when I heard this was "Pussy, kick his ass then". But as more info. has surfaced, I changed my opinion and now think Martin handled it about as well as he could. Incognito's out and the team and NFL now have to take a good long look at this issue.

 

[trojanfan12]

Oh, and for the record, Martin is not a rookie.

You're right. It's his 2nd year, Hadn't looked it up. On the radio they kept saying that he's a rookie.

 

[Red_Alert]

Well Incognito made ABC's 'Good Morning America'.

 

[starbigd]

Well Incognito made ABC's 'Good Morning America'.

I think what bothers me the most about this situation.......is that I have yet to see a Dolphins player speak out on this. NONE of the black players seem to have a problem with Incognito throwing around the N word, or any of his actions. For me that is disturbing and eye opening as to whats going on there.

 

[Runeman]

I think what bothers me the most about this situation.......is that I have yet to see a Dolphins player speak out on this. NONE of the black players seem to have a problem with Incognito throwing around the N word, or any of his actions. For me that is disturbing and eye opening as to whats going on there.

I agree; seems strange that the players are quiet about this. In addition, Coach Philbin should have been in better control and dealt with this problem a long time ago. If he did not know, then he has a leadership problem in that assistant coaches and/or players did not have the confidence to bring this thing out in the open. IMO, The Dolphin owners should clean house over this one; starting with the head coach. Incognito is finished and probably will not be playing for another NFL team again.