Miller/Taylor

[Nasty_Magician]

What's the story with these 2 guys? Their name's keep being thrown out there in Mets rumors since we're in need of a SS and have a ton of pitching, although based on their numbers they don't seem much better than what the Mets already have. What am I missing? What is the max upside with these 2? Would you be upset losing either of them?

 

[gowazzu02]

typical mariners..... these guys were hot to trot and name prospects in the minors. They get to the big club and can't hit.

If we off loaded them im sure they'd explode. If we keep them, they will Justin Smoak.........

 

[cezero]

What's the story with these 2 guys? Their name's keep being thrown out there in Mets rumors since we're in need of a SS and have a ton of pitching, although based on their numbers they don't seem much better than what the Mets already have. What am I missing? What is the max upside with these 2? Would you be upset losing either of them?

Miller put work in last offseason to improve his D, so I think he has shown that he has a professional approach at least. He might become a decent hitter. He had less than 1000 plate appearance in the minors, and is just now approaching 2000 total pro PA since being accelerated to the major leagues prematurely.

Taylor's going to be solid, I think. He's only got 1/3 of a season's games under his belt, so it's far too early to know much for sure, but his OPS+ is over 100.

I wouldn't be upset with losing either in a trade. Would rather hold onto Taylor out of the 2.

 

[Turn2]

typical mariners..... these guys were hot to trot and name prospects in the minors. They get to the big club and can't hit.

If we off loaded them im sure they'd explode. If we keep them, they will Justin Smoak.........

287 for Taylor in his debut.... Wish that WAS "typical mariners"! Not quite sure how you can label Taylor as someone that "can't hit" with the big club... Guess you have pretty high expectations. Miller had a down year, but turned it around at the end. Far too early to give up on his bat. In all honesty, Miller and Taylor both would be a step up defensively over Flores and quite likely offensively as well.

 

[PolarVortex]

287 for Taylor in his debut.... Wish that WAS "typical mariners"! Not quite sure how you can label Taylor as someone that "can't hit" with the big club... Guess you have pretty high expectations. Miller had a down year, but turned it around at the end. Far too early to give up on his bat. In all honesty, Miller and Taylor both would be a step up defensively over Flores and quite likely offensively as well.

I think he was labeled can't hit because of the season he had last year. He was on fire when he came up from AAA. He 18-45 for a .400 BA. But beginning August 12th, he finished going 21-91 for a .231. Miller, over the same final stretch went 22-70 for a .312 BA.

It's too early to say Taylor can't hit in MLB because the sample set is still too small. But, it is also true that his .287 BA was greatly inflated by a three week hot streak and he was a sub .250 hitter for the greater part of his time with Seattle.

And, as I have said in the past, you can't spent big money at every position. I think shortstop is a position the Mariners use for payroll relief and stick with the Taylor/Miller tandem.

 

[gowazzu02]

I think he was labeled can't hit because of the season he had last year. He was on fire when he came up from AAA. He 18-45 for a .400 BA. But beginning August 12th, he finished going 21-91 for a .231. Miller, over the same final stretch went 22-70 for a .312 BA.

It's too early to say Taylor can't hit in MLB because the sample set is still too small. But, it is also true that his .287 BA was greatly inflated by a three week hot streak and he was a sub .250 hitter for the greater part of his time with Seattle.

And, as I have said in the past, you can't spent big money at every position. I think shortstop is a position the Mariners use for payroll relief and stick with the Taylor/Miller tandem.

Thanks Vortex. Thats what I love about this board. I spout off emotional "feel" type responses. Then guys like Vortex come in with the facts and numbers that back up my statement!

Yes its probably too early to judge Taylor,,,, and honestly probably miller too.... But nothing about the Mariners history tells me they will pan out.

 

[Thisnamewasntaken]

I'd rather keep Miller, I think it's really a gamble either way.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Thank you folks. At this point I'm debating if it is enough of an upgrade from Flores to justify moving pitchers. Defensively they'd both be upgrades as Flores is playing out of position at SS. Offensively, Flores' ability to hit seems to be the same situation as these 2. It remains to be seen.

 

[PolarVortex]

Thank you folks. At this point I'm debating if it is enough of an upgrade from Flores to justify moving pitchers. Defensively they'd both be upgrades as Flores is playing out of position at SS. Offensively, Flores' ability to hit seems to be the same situation as these 2. It remains to be seen.

If Boston is foolish enough to play HanRam at shortstop (and I think they are) then the Mets could probably get Xander Bogaerts. And Xander is a better prospect than Taylor or Miller (although Miller really isn't a 'prospect' anymore).

 

[Thisnamewasntaken]

If Boston is foolish enough to play HanRam at shortstop (and I think they are) then the Mets could probably get Xander Bogaerts. And Xander is a better prospect than Taylor or Miller (although Miller really isn't a 'prospect' anymore).

That would be awesome lol. Send Xander out of the AL, and I like it when teams of bad records make moves. It would be cool to get him ourselves though, and I had already thought about that. Then we could flip both Miller & Taylor for pitching.

 

[Turn2]

I think he was labeled can't hit because of the season he had last year. He was on fire when he came up from AAA. He 18-45 for a .400 BA. But beginning August 12th, he finished going 21-91 for a .231. Miller, over the same final stretch went 22-70 for a .312 BA.

It's too early to say Taylor can't hit in MLB because the sample set is still too small. But, it is also true that his .287 BA was greatly inflated by a three week hot streak and he was a sub .250 hitter for the greater part of his time with Seattle.

And, as I have said in the past, you can't spent big money at every position. I think shortstop is a position the Mariners use for payroll relief and stick with the Taylor/Miller tandem.

Yes Taylor's numbers fell off a bit after pitchers got wise and quit going right after him, but his OBP over that "poor" stretch still was .310... slightly better than our newest $100 million man, Kyle Seagar, over that same time period. As you said, still way too early to write him off and based on HIS history, I'm betting he'll make adjustments and get better rather than regress. The same can be said for Miller. If the M's do end up trading either one, they better get something REAL good in return.

 

[cezero]

Yes Taylor's numbers fell off a bit after pitchers got wise and quit going right after him, but his OBP over that "poor" stretch still was .310... slightly better than our newest $100 million man, Kyle Seagar, over that same time period. As you said, still way too early to write him off and based on HIS history, I'm betting he'll make adjustments and get better rather than regress. The same can be said for Miller. If the M's do end up trading either one, they better get something REAL good in return.

I never really thought about what the M's could get for just Miller. I can't imagine it would be a whole lot. I always thought of him as the 2nd or 3rd guy in a big M's trade package Z might do.

 

[wazzu31]

You can't write Taylor off at all and it his slumping showed the problem with the Mariners having no foresight or plans when they make moves. They bring Taylor up and he does well so they bench Miller. Taylor starts to struggle then they start a platoon with Taylor and Miller. One thing baseball has proven is that you cannot platoon young players you want to go with. A hitter can't adjust to adjustments when he doesn't play everyday. That leads to pressing and that is the worst thing a younger player can do is press to get playing time, it is ok to go 0-4 in a game as long as they learn something, not go 0-4 then sit the next day. They aren't breaking in a dog, they are breaking in thoroughbreds with ups and downs.

 

[Turn2]

You can't write Taylor off at all and it his slumping showed the problem with the Mariners having no foresight or plans when they make moves. They bring Taylor up and he does well so they bench Miller. Taylor starts to struggle then they start a platoon with Taylor and Miller. One thing baseball has proven is that you cannot platoon young players you want to go with. A hitter can't adjust to adjustments when he doesn't play everyday. That leads to pressing and that is the worst thing a younger player can do is press to get playing time, it is ok to go 0-4 in a game as long as they learn something, not go 0-4 then sit the next day. They aren't breaking in a dog, they are breaking in thoroughbreds with ups and downs.

Excellent comments and while the platooning could certainly have contributed to Taylor's drop off at the plate, in fairness to the M's, they WERE in the midst of a very tight playoff race and I'm sure we're doing what they thought was best for the team rather than the development of a young player.

 

[wazzu31]

Excellent comments and while the platooning could certainly have contributed to Taylor's drop off at the plate, in fairness to the M's, they WERE in the midst of a very tight playoff race and I'm sure we're doing what they thought was best for the team rather than the development of a young player.

I could see that logic if it weren't for all their other personnel choices. You call up a young player, you let him play himself out of the lineup which I do not feel they did. Austin Jackson played himself to where he deserved a demotion to the minors but he was out there every day. Smoak and Hart getting meaningful at bats, Morales and Jackson were everyday players so I can't buy the it was they were making any offense moves strictly because of the playoff push when IMO there were better options on the bench but the Mariners have Lloyd.