Mayweather vs Paq

[DJ]

......I liked Hagler too,.....he disappeared to Italy, i read awhile ago.

Actor in Italy. He looked intimidating as Hell but he was very articulate also.

 

[Robotech]

Boxing really needs to rethink how they do this sort of thing. Maybe come up with a world series format with 4 fight tournament of the top 16 in the weight classes. Other guys try to fight their way into the top 16 in other matches. Even the top 10 with a some byes mixed in would be better than this. This would have been a great fight like 5 years ago because Pac would have been moving forward more and May would have had to work. Great matchup between a slugger and a counter puncher. But this was just a couple of guys clearly passed their prime finally cashing in on the "super fight" before they hung them up.

There's no centralized control of the sport like you would find in sports leagues or in the UFC. Tournaments like that are very rare in boxing. On top of that, there are two problems with doing this in boxing: (1) boxing loves to market undefeated fighters, and this system would cause there to be few or no undefeated fighters because the best are constantly fighting the best; and (2) if the best are constantly fighting the best, boxers would wear down faster and you'll see much shorter careers for the top fighters.

 

[gohusk]

People that says Money May is a runner, don't truely understand boxing.

Maybe because he is a runner. Look, he's a great fighter but he's taken advantage of

There's no centralized control of the sport like you would find in sports leagues or in the UFC. Tournaments like that are very rare in boxing. On top of that, there are two problems with doing this in boxing: (1) boxing loves to market undefeated fighters, and this system would cause there to be few or no undefeated fighters because the best are constantly fighting the best; and (2) if the best are constantly fighting the best, boxers would wear down faster and you'll see much shorter careers for the top fighters.

#1 is what's killing the sport. There was absolutely no reason for either Pac or Mayweather wanting to fight before their career was over because they'd damage their brand if they lost. Instead they were both racking up big paydays fighting inferior opponents and were able to keep this big payday in their back pocket for years.

As far as #2 goes, all you're asking a guy is to fight 3 or 4 ranked contenders a year. That really doesn't seem like too much to ask.

But this will never happen. Casinos and promoters make big dough on the super fights and it must be pretty easy to convince a champ to dodge lesser known guys who would be a legit test in favor of washed up big names that don't have a chance.

 

[Robotech]

Maybe because he is a runner. Look, he's a great fighter but he's taken advantage of


#1 is what's killing the sport. There was absolutely no reason for either Pac or Mayweather wanting to fight before their career was over because they'd damage their brand if they lost. Instead they were both racking up big paydays fighting inferior opponents and were able to keep this big payday in their back pocket for years.

As far as #2 goes, all you're asking a guy is to fight 3 or 4 ranked contenders a year. That really doesn't seem like too much to ask.

But this will never happen. Casinos and promoters make big dough on the super fights and it must be pretty easy to convince a champ to dodge lesser known guys who would be a legit test in favor of washed up big names that don't have a chance.

I'd love it if the top fighters fought three or four times a year, but the current reality of the sport is that these guys just want to do one or two big PPV shows each year. I believe there have been some years where Floyd and Manny only fought once or not at all.

 

[Skinny jeans aint cool]

Did anyone here have Manny winning? I just got off work and some people are saying the judges were bought off and Manny really won. I didn't know what fight they watched but it wasn't the one I saw last night. Even the Philippines is crying out robbery. Man, the Manny worship needs to stop. I honestly don't know what to say. It's the same thing that happened in the JMM fight. Before the knock out, people say that Manny was dominating Marquez which I didn't get because he even got knocked down in the round before that brutal sleeping pill he took. It's like people see what they want to see.

 

[LALakersboy24.7]

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I remember a time when you didn't win rounds because you ran away effectively.

 

[Davis_Mike]

Did anyone here have Manny winning? I just got off work and some people are saying the judges were bought off and Manny really won. I didn't know what fight they watched but it wasn't the one I saw last night. Even the Philippines is crying out robbery. Man, the Manny worship needs to stop. I honestly don't know what to say. It's the same thing that happened in the JMM fight. Before the knock out, people say that Manny was dominating Marquez which I didn't get because he even got knocked down in the round before that brutal sleeping pill he took. It's like people see what they want to see.

I didn't, but I understand how poorly boxing's system of scoring is. It rewards inaction, stalling, & fleeing. It values a counter punch from a guy on the run, more that a punch from an aggressive boxer who is moving forward.

It's the reason Floyd wins boxing matches(I won't call them fights) & it's the reason boxing has been dying.

 

[Robotech]

Did anyone here have Manny winning? I just got off work and some people are saying the judges were bought off and Manny really won. I didn't know what fight they watched but it wasn't the one I saw last night. Even the Philippines is crying out robbery. Man, the Manny worship needs to stop. I honestly don't know what to say. It's the same thing that happened in the JMM fight. Before the knock out, people say that Manny was dominating Marquez which I didn't get because he even got knocked down in the round before that brutal sleeping pill he took. It's like people see what they want to see.

I had Floyd winning 8-4 just like two of the official judges, but there were some close rounds. Scoring a fight is very subjective and one is supposed to look at four components (clean punching, effective aggressiveness, defense, and ring generalship), but it's very common for people to focus more on one or two of these components while paying little attention to the others. There was precious little action in this fight, so I could see why some would give it to the guy who was moving forward and who landed the harder punches.

Also, it's a fact that a broadcasting team influences the audience's thinking. Holyfield and Mosley thought Manny won, but I think they watched the fight live rather than the broadcast.

If I remember correctly, Manny was leading on the scorecards when JMM landed that perfect punch.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I remember a time when you didn't win rounds because you ran away effectively.

Isn't the legend (probably bullshit) that Willie Pep won a round without throwing a punch?

And there's another guy to add to the pound for pound conversation too I suppose

 

[Robotech]

I didn't, but I understand how poorly boxing's system of scoring is. It rewards inaction, stalling, & fleeing. It values a counter punch from a guy on the run, more that a punch from an aggressive boxer who is moving forward.

It's the reason Floyd wins boxing matches(I won't call them fights) & it's the reason boxing has been dying.

I think that one of the major flaws of professional boxing is that you hardly ever see a referee deduct points for holding. If refs start doing that, you'll start seeing a lot more action in the ring.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I will give Mayweather this much, he knows how to win. He knew he was going to need every advantage he could possibly have in order to beat Pacquiao and for the first time I saw someone actually utilize the size and reach advantage that most opponents have over Pacquiao. It was a smart move to bulk up as well, since he was strong enough to clinch Pacquiao if he ever felt he was in danger of a combination. At the same time he fought pretty dirty in the early rounds, which I won't slam him for, since he needed every little thing against an opponent of his own caliber.

I personally saw it as more of a draw, since Pacquiao landed the more powerful shots and caused more damage. Typical Mayweather fight, lots of running away, clinching and Mayweather trying to kill time off the clock as often as possible. Yes, Mayweather landed more shots but how many of those punches were meaningless jabs thrown at a distance with nothing behind them. Pacquiao landed all the meaningful punches.

 

[Davis_Mike]

I used to love boxing in my younger years. Growing up in AZ, a lot of my friends were Hispanic. So that meant getting to watch a lot of PPV fights at friend's houses whenever there was a well known Mexican or Latin boxer or Carbajal was fighting, which seemed like almost every month. So many good boxers & fights in the 80s & 90s. But as we got into the 2000s, it seemed that boxing dramatically changed. Many of the big name boxing matches weren't entertaining anymore. That's were I am today.

I respect these boxers skills, but running & point fighting isn't entertaining to me. It's the reason that my attention mainly lies with MMA now. Were aggressiveness is rewarded & back-peddlers are not.

 

[wildturkey]

People that says Money May is a runner, don't truely understand boxing.

I think people get it. They just realize Floyd is gaming the rules and see it as a cheap, less honorable way of doing things. Nothing he does is illegal, but he doesn't really fight. He never pushes himself. He spends his time running and dodging and throwing juuuuust enough to win. His strategy is the equivalent of a basketball team in the pre shot clock era going up two baskets and then spending the rest of the time passing the ball around to milk the clock.

 

[Edonidd]

Did anyone here have Manny winning? I just got off work and some people are saying the judges were bought off and Manny really won. I didn't know what fight they watched but it wasn't the one I saw last night. Even the Philippines is crying out robbery. Man, the Manny worship needs to stop. I honestly don't know what to say. It's the same thing that happened in the JMM fight. Before the knock out, people say that Manny was dominating Marquez which I didn't get because he even got knocked down in the round before that brutal sleeping pill he took. It's like people see what they want to see.

I scored it live round by round for the record. Hall of famer Steve Farhood had the same 117-111 I had. Harold Lederman (best judge in boxing IMO) had one more for Manny at 116-112. Two official judges agreed with him, and one gave even less rounds to Manny than me or Farhood did at 118-110.

I think I even pointed out that Manny won 1 round (the fourth) absolutely and decisively. If any judge didn't have that round for him I would question them. Mayweather won 5 that solidly. Probably 6, with the 12th being a round that I really don't think many argue Manny won. But maybe some (bad) judges would give him that round for being the aggressor. IMO if you gave Manny every single round that was close the most you could have given him was a draw. Realistically you can't give him every close round. Some were close because Manny landed the bigger punch but Floyd landed and threw more. Others were close because Floyd landed the bigger counter punches but Manny threw and landed more little shots. A consistent judge (which I try to be, I'm not a good or professional judge but I try to be consistent) should always reward the more damage or the more active. You can't give one guy both sides of the coin.

So no. I don't even see how you could possibly say that Manny won that fight.

 

[snookdad]

If he ran so much how did he land the greater amount of punches and a greater number of power shots? Yall or really tripping me out. If any of you ever got into a fight I seriously doubt you let your opponent square up and hit you with his best shot. The he ran argument is simply ridiculous. Jalf of yall who saying he ran didn't even see the fight. Keep it real yall dont like the guy and or desperately to see him lose. Pac was the so called annoited one and couldn't close the deal period.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

If he ran so much how did he land the greater amount of punches and a greater number of power shots? Yall or really tripping me out. If any of you ever got into a fight I seriously doubt you let your opponent square up and hit you with his best shot. The he ran argument is simply ridiculous. Jalf of yall who saying he ran didn't even see the fight. Keep it real yall dont like the guy and or desperately to see him lose. Pac was the so called annoited one and couldn't close the deal period.

There's no point of arguing with them. They just hate the guy that much.

I really question people boxing knowledge who think that was running last night.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

I think people get it. They just realize Floyd is gaming the rules and see it as a cheap, less honorable way of doing things. Nothing he does is illegal, but he doesn't really fight. He never pushes himself. He spends his time running and dodging and throwing juuuuust enough to win. His strategy is the equivalent of a basketball team in the pre shot clock era going up two baskets and then spending the rest of the time passing the ball around to milk the clock.

He doesn't fight, but he threw more punches than Manny. Yeah that makes perfect sense.

 

[Edonidd]

I hate sticking up for Mayweather so much. It makes me feel dirty. But some of these people are either trolling the shit out of me with more skill than they've ever shown in anything else in life, or they're just retarded.

His natural fighting weight is probably still 135. Maybe 140 tops. 145-147 is his normal walking around weight. He's come up in weight a ton of times and got to the point where he can still outbox guys much bigger than him but has zero chance to physically knock them out. So since that's the only thing to rip him on, people pile on like that is the biggest weakness of all time. Silly.

 

[snookdad]

There's no point of arguing with them. They just hate the guy that much.

I really question people boxing knowledge who think that was running last night.

Agreed