Mat Ishbia is ruining the Suns

[HurricaneDij39]

An in opposite form the way Robert Sarver did... That is all.

I'd explain more as to how but I've got a few minutes left on my break. Let's just call it a prime example of why superteams are coming to an end...

 

[tlance]

An in opposite form the way Robert Sarver did... That is all.

I'd explain more as to how but I've got a few minutes left on my break. Let's just call it a prime example of why superteams are coming to an end...

More superteams coming are why they are coming to an end?

No.

Just the last couple to form have been highly flawed.

There will be more. And they won’t all fail.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

More superteams coming are why they are coming to an end?

No.

Just the last couple to form have been highly flawed.

There will be more. And they won’t all fail.

Don't get me wrong, Booker Beal and KD on the court at the same time will be fun to watch. I'm just skeptical on how frequently that will be, however.

40 YO KD might just pass out on the court from exhaustion with this team's G League level depth.

The fact the Beal is the third option with such a bad contract is an indicator that teams will stop making these sorts of risks very soon if not already.

 

[Ojb81]

All of the sudden, Durant isnt 34, he's 40. 40 years old. Just like that.

 

[broncosmitty]

Ruining a franchise that’s never won a title, and has one Finals appearance in the last 30 years, by loading the starting lineup with high end talent.

Man, I’d be sooo pissed if I were a Suns fan.

 

[trojanfan12]

More superteams coming are why they are coming to an end?

No.

Just the last couple to form have been highly flawed.

There will be more. And they won’t all fail.

I guess it could depend on one's definition of a super team.

The CBA would seem to make putting together a super team very difficult. It seems like the only way super teams could happen now would require something weird with existing players on a team (Like when the Warriors were able to get KD) or if 3 players who wanted to play together all decided to take less money.

 

[tlance]

I guess it could depend on one's definition of a super team.

The CBA would seem to make putting together a super team very difficult. It seems like the only way super teams could happen now would require something weird with existing players on a team (Like when the Warriors were able to get KD) or if 3 players who wanted to play together all decided to take less money.

Right.

But @HurricaneDij39 is implying that franchises will stop trying to build superteams because the last couple have failed.

They will still try. We will still see them.

If they become less frequent, it will be the CBA rules and not the success of the last couple attempts built around players who have availability issues.

 

[tlance]

Don't get me wrong, Booker Beal and KD on the court at the same time will be fun to watch. I'm just skeptical on how frequently that will be, however.

40 YO KD might just pass out on the court from exhaustion with this team's G League level depth.

The fact the Beal is the third option with such a bad contract is an indicator that teams will stop making these sorts of risks very soon if not already.

Teams will always try to make these types of gambles if they feel like it improves their chances of winning.

Is it a risk?

Sure.

Beal’s contract isn’t exactly a bargain.

But the Suns had cap issues before they made this deal. So they gave up very little to upgrade CP3 to Beal and improve their odds for next year.

What happens 3 years from now really isn’t relevant. As soon as they traded for KD, they are correctly all in for right now.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Right.

But @HurricaneDij39 is implying that franchises will stop trying to build superteams because the last couple have failed.

They will still try. We will still see them.

If they become less frequent, it will be the CBA rules and not the success of the last couple attempts built around players who have availability issues.

Super teams also improve the economics of the team. It signals to the fanbase that the organization is “going for it” and therefore they’re more likely to put butts in the seats.

 

[SJ76]

Ruining a franchise that’s never won a title, and has one Finals appearance in the last 30 years, by loading the starting lineup with high end talent.

Man, I’d be sooo pissed if I were a Suns fan.

Especially if I was a fan that went to the Western Conf champs parade.

 

[shopson67]

Right.

But @HurricaneDij39 is implying that franchises will stop trying to build superteams because the last couple have failed.

They will still try. We will still see them.

If they become less frequent, it will be the CBA rules and not the success of the last couple attempts built around players who have availability issues.

The longer these teams are over that super tax threshold, the longer they impair their franchise for the future. Having future draft picks frozen and moved to the end of the round while not being able to use any exceptions, not being able to sign buyout candidates, can't aggregate salaries in trades, can't take more salary back in a trade, etc. This year they only lose the exceptions I believe, but the other penalties will be rolled in.

Trying to muscle past the CBA isn't going to work like it used to for cash-rich teams.

 

[shopson67]

Teams will always try to make these types of gambles if they feel like it improves their chances of winning.

Is it a risk?

Sure.

Beal’s contract isn’t exactly a bargain.

But the Suns had cap issues before they made this deal. So they gave up very little to upgrade CP3 to Beal and improve their odds for next year.

What happens 3 years from now really isn’t relevant. As soon as they traded for KD, they are correctly all in for right now.

They are locked in to Beal for the duration essentially. He still has that no trade clause, and we saw what that did to the Wiz' ability to get a decent trade completed. They are also basically locked-in to be over the 2nd tax apron and all the penalties that will bring with it as they are rolled in.

The Suns cap issues had a chance to be workable if they let CP3 walk as originally planned. They would've been well clear of the 2nd tax apron. Depending on their path this summer, they could've had either the full MLE or TPMLE to work with. They could've brought CP3 back as a vet min (unless they stretched his contract).

How long will it take (1 more year, maybe 2?) before the Suns start pining for that Mikal Bridges trade package back?

 

[tlance]

The longer these teams are over that super tax threshold, the longer they impair their franchise for the future. Having future draft picks frozen and moved to the end of the round while not being able to use any exceptions, not being able to sign buyout candidates, can't aggregate salaries in trades, can't take more salary back in a trade, etc. This year they only lose the exceptions I believe, but the other penalties will be rolled in.

Trying to muscle past the CBA isn't going to work like it used to for cash-rich teams.

That is what being all in entails.

The future is now.

They will pay a price down the road to be sure.

End of the day? If they get a title, it will be worth it. If they fall short, maybe not.

But if I am a Suns fan I would be ecstatic with these moves. Give me an ownership group willing to push the envelope and take risk to make a good team better all day long.

Can’t worry about 2028 if you are trying to contend today.

 

[shopson67]

That is what being all in entails.

The future is now.

They will pay a price down the road to be sure.

End of the day? If they get a title, it will be worth it. If they fall short, maybe not.

But if I am a Suns fan I would be ecstatic with these moves. Give me an ownership group willing to push the envelope and take risk to make a good team better all day long.

Can’t worry about 2028 if you are trying to contend today.

I wouldn't be so sure that they improved their chances with this trade. Beal has played 3 "complete" seasons out of 11 thus far in his career. Durant gets hurt more and more of late. Even Booker has been getting nicked up. Without any depth?

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Teams will always try to make these types of gambles if they feel like it improves their chances of winning.

Is it a risk?

Sure.

Beal’s contract isn’t exactly a bargain.

But the Suns had cap issues before they made this deal. So they gave up very little to upgrade CP3 to Beal and improve their odds for next year.

What happens 3 years from now really isn’t relevant. As soon as they traded for KD, they are correctly all in for right now.

They are Brooklyn west. They are going to have a bitch of a time keeping their stars on the court.

At least the Nets had a proven exec in Sean Marks who had a knack for finding diamonds in the rough for role players. James Jones is an alright GM, but I’m not sure how much power he actually has with this new ownership.

Wouldn’t mind being wrong, but holy shit the downside is massive in this case. Teams like the Suns and Lakers are going all in with aging stars, but when it comes time to reset they are going to be hurting in the worst way due to their nonexistent draft capital.

At least the Lakers have their bubble title. The Suns when they fail won’t have a whole lot to show for their efforts.

 

[msgkings322]

That is what being all in entails.

The future is now.

They will pay a price down the road to be sure.

End of the day? If they get a title, it will be worth it. If they fall short, maybe not.

But if I am a Suns fan I would be ecstatic with these moves. Give me an ownership group willing to push the envelope and take risk to make a good team better all day long.

Can’t worry about 2028 if you are trying to contend today.

The new rules probably make multi-year dynasties like the recent Warriors one or the Heat one and so on harder to achieve

 

[msgkings322]

They are Brooklyn west. They are going to have a bitch of a time keeping their stars on the court.

At least the Nets had a proven exec in Sean Marks who had a knack for finding diamonds in the rough for role players. James Jones is an alright GM, but I’m not sure how much power he actually has with this new ownership.

Wouldn’t mind being wrong, but holy shit the downside is massive in this case. Teams like the Suns and Lakers are going all in with aging stars, but when it comes time to reset they are going to be hurting in the worst way due to their nonexistent draft capital.

At least the Lakers have their bubble title. The Suns when they fail won’t have a whole lot to show for their efforts.

It's a gamble for sure, the kind you take if you just bought a team that has never won it all

 

[tlance]

They are Brooklyn west. They are going to have a bitch of a time keeping their stars on the court.

At least the Nets had a proven exec in Sean Marks who had a knack for finding diamonds in the rough for role players. James Jones is an alright GM, but I’m not sure how much power he actually has with this new ownership.

Wouldn’t mind being wrong, but holy shit the downside is massive in this case. Teams like the Suns and Lakers are going all in with aging stars, but when it comes time to reset they are going to be hurting in the worst way due to their nonexistent draft capital.

At least the Lakers have their bubble title. The Suns when they fail won’t have a whole lot to show for their efforts.

It isn’t as bad as Brooklyn.

Phoenix has issues to be sure.

But Brooklyn’s were way more than just getting their players on the court.

They had to deal with ball hogs and crazy. Phoenix does not have to deal with any of that.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

Poor CP3. Dude just can't catch a break.

And I really don't see the Suns responding all too well to new head coach Frank Vogel's style and nuance...at least in the onset.

They've still got some head cases to deal with on that team...but perhaps Beal can be a calming force.


That said...the entire Western Conference is gonna be an interesting animal to keep an eye on this upcoming season.

 

[DJ]

Poor CP3. Dude just can't catch a break.

And I really don't see the Suns responding all too well to new head coach Mike Vogel's style and nuance...at least in the onset.

They've still got some head cases to deal with on that team...but perhaps Beal can be a calming force.


That said...the entire Western Conference is gonna be an interesting animal to keep an eye on this upcoming season.

Who is Mike Vogel?