Marshall Faulk - "Brady's greatness should have an asterisk"

[Vitamike]

Well, in the court of public opinion, Faulk is taking it on the chin. A lot of negative comments on Marshall's game performance and sportsmanship.

No sense in doing a poll here on the Rams boards, (And I didn't feel like putting this up on the General NFL boards, because I just didn't have any potato salad to offer) but I thought I could hear from some of you.

2017 Super Bowl: Marshall Faulk says Brady's greatness should have an asterisk

For what it's worth, I recently had a discussion with my work buddy and all his brothers in Yankeeland. And my good buddy (The guy I work with) called Marshall an Ass. For someone as reserved and proper as my buddy is, his comment came as a surprise.

Then I read this article and the comment section listed below the article, and yes, for Marshall stating his beliefs and his opinions, to many he is just a poor sport.

I personally think it's a brave stance because it looks so much like sour grapes, so I applaud Marshall for not cowering to appearances!

BTW - As previously stated in another thread here on the Rams boards, I'm with Marshall, 100%!

I'll share some additional info and maybe we could have a good discussion on some of the 'facts'. I'd certainly like to have some insight from some of you! Important details I may have missed (?)

Thanks in advance, because I'm going to post a lot of reading material, but first read through the short article I've already included.

 

[Vitamike]

 

[Vitamike]

This will get you started but you will need to click on the link at the end to finish the wiki article.

2007 New England Patriots videotaping controversy
The 2007 New England Patriots videotaping controversy, widely dubbed "Spygate",[1][2] refers to an incident during the National Football League's (NFL) 2007 season when the New England Patriots were disciplined by the league for videotaping New York Jets' defensive coaches' signals from an unauthorized location during a September 9, 2007 game. Videotaping opposing coaches is not illegal in the NFL de jure, but there are designated areas allowed by the league to do such taping. Because the Patriots were instead videotaping the Jets' coaches from their own sideline during the game, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell deemed it to be in violation of league rules, stating that the act represented a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid long-standing rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field. After an investigation, the NFL fined Patriots head coach Bill Belichick $500,000 (the maximum allowed by the league and the largest fine ever imposed on a coach in the league's 87-year history) for his role in the incident, fined the Patriots $250,000, and docked the team their original first-round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft which would have been the 31st pick of the draft.[3] The fine garnered significant media attention for being the "maximum amount" an individual could be fined.

As part of their probe into the allegations, the NFL required the Patriots to turn over all notes and tapes relating to the taping of opponents' defensive signals; the Patriots did not want the video tapes to leave their facilities, in turn league officials went to Patriots athletic facilities and proceeded to smash the tapes, by order of Goodell. [4][5] This action was criticized on February 1, 2008 – 2 days before Super Bowl XLII — by U.S. Senator Arlen Specter, who requested to meet with Goodell. After meeting with Goodell on February 13, 2008 Specter reported that Goodell told him that Belichick had been engaged in the practice since he became head coach of the Patriots in 2000.[6] Belichick said he believed he was operating within the rules as long as the tape was not used during the same game.[7]

Nearly six months after the incident, the Boston Herald reported, citing an unnamed source, that the Patriots had also videotaped the St. Louis Rams' walkthrough practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI in February 2002,[8] an allegation denied by Belichick[7] and later retracted by the Herald. Meanwhile, Matt Walsh, a Patriots video assistant in 2001 who was fired after the team's 2002 season, told the media the same week that he had information and materials regarding the Patriots' videotaping practices, but demanded an indemnity agreement before speaking with the NFL.[9] The NFL reached a deal with Walsh on April 23, 2008, and arranged a meeting between Goodell and Walsh.[10] Prior to the meeting, Walsh sent eight videotapes, containing opponents' coaches' signals from the 2000 through 2002 seasons, in accordance with the agreement.[11] Goodell and Walsh met on May 13, 2008, at which time Walsh told Goodell he and other Patriots employees were present at the Rams' walkthrough to set up video equipment for the game but that there was no tape of the walkthrough made; as a result, Goodell told the media no additional penalties would be brought against the Patriots.[12] Less than 24 hours later, the Herald issued an apology for the article about the alleged walkthrough tape.[13]

NFL Security confiscate video camera
On September 10, 2007, Belichick was accused by the Jets of authorizing his staff to film the Jets' defensive signals from an on-field location, a violation of league rules. NFL Security confiscated the video camera used by video assistant Matt Estrella to film the signals during the game.[14] Jets Head Coach Eric Mangini—a former Patriots assistant coach—had reported the fact that the Patriots were taping from the sidelines to NFL Security.[15] Mangini later stated, "I didn't think it was any kind of significant advantage, but I wasn't going to give them the convenience of doing it in our stadium, and I wanted to shut it down. But there was no intent to get the league involved. There was no intent to have the landslide that it has become."[15]

Two days later, Belichick issued a statement "to apologize to everyone who has been affected," and also stated that he spoke with Goodell about Belichick's "interpretation of the rule." Belichick stated that he believed that if footage so collected was not used during the game, its collection was legal, as the NFL Constitution and Bylaws stipulate that "...any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited...including without limitation...any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."[16] In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."[16]

Penalty and fines[/QUOTE]

2007 New England Patriots videotaping controversy - Wikipedia

2007 New England Patriots videotaping controversy - Wikipedia

 

[shopson67]

There's no real point rehashing that IMO; Faulk needs to let it go. The newspapers all backed down on their stories and the NFL destroyed the tapes, so there's no evidence left.

 

[SJ76]

You know where I stand on the issue

 

[Vitamike]

There's no real point rehashing that IMO; Faulk needs to let it go. The newspapers all backed down on their stories and the NFL destroyed the tapes, so there's no evidence left.

Not sure if you clicked on the video or not, but Marshall conceded to the question; 'Will Super Bowl win make Tom Brady as greatest quarterback ever' and was then asked by Rich Eisen, who obviously knew what Faulk meant about Marshall 'little asterisk' comment. So it's not like he was rehashing it all on his own.

Also, where the Boston Examiner retracted the story the writer who broke the story still to this day stands by the credibility of his main source and he had multiple sources too.

 

[Vitamike]

Here's more to read on the Pats cheating ways....

Again, this will get you started but you will need to click on the link at the bottom to get the full story.

ESPN just nuked the Patriots and NFL for Spygate
The latest bombshell from Bristol links the NFL's tough stance on DeflateGate to its fumbling of the Spygate investigation.

It may be hard to believe, but Roger Goodell's seemingly tenuous position as commissioner of the NFL is more secure following his handling of the DeflateGate scandal, according to a bombshell of a story co-written by ESPN's Don Van Natta, Jr. and Seth Wickersham under the Outside the Lines banner. The reason goes all the way back to Spygate, the 2007 New England Patriots videotaping scandal.

Owners and others were disappointed that the NFL did not issue stronger discipline to the Patriots in the wake of the investigation over video taping opposing teams' hand signals. The ESPN report, in talking with owners, executives and others around the league, found that many inside the NFL view Goodell's tough stance on DeflateGate as a "makeup call" for how the league handled the Spygate.

The commissioner denied any link between the two investigations and disciplinary actions for the Patriots during a Tuesday morning appearance on ESPN radio's Mike and Mike show. Nevertheless, Goodell's decision to come down hard on Kraft and the Patriots was something that pleased the majority of the league's owners, according to Outside the Lines.

"Roger did the right thing -- at last," one owner said to Outside the Lines, in reference to Goodell's decision to uphold Brady's punishment. "He looks tough -- and that's good."


Goodell's job now being more secure is just one of the many revelations from this Outside the Lines pieces. Here are some others.

Goodell pushed then-Rams head coach Mike Martz to exonerate the league's Spygate investigation
It appears that actions like this are why the Goodell has been pushing so hard during this DeflateGate scandal. He went easy on the Patriots last time around, even, according to Outside the Lines, calling up Mike Martz, the Rams head coach at the time of Super Bowl XXXVI, and asking him to back off.


Martz also recalls that Goodell asked him to write a statement, saying that he was satisfied with the NFL's Spygate investigation and was certain the Patriots had not cheated and asking everyone to move on -- like leaders of the Steelers and Eagles had done.

A congressional inquiry that would put league officials under oath had to be avoided, Martz recalls Goodell telling him. "If it ever got to an investigation, it would be terrible for the league," Goodell said.


This, understandably, angered the rest of the league's owners, who were pushing Goodell to go after the Patriots this time around.

The Patriots' comical spying techniques
The Patriots went to great lengths to get signals and other information about their opponents. In fact, it borders on Keystone Cops type stuff or Spy vs. Spy, the old Mad Magazine series.

Patriots staffers would dress like media members, covering team logos on their clothing or turning sweatshirts inside out to hide their team gear. They would also wear badges, credentials marked for Patriots TV or Kraft Productions. That trick came in handy when the league, in cooperation with the Jets, set up a sting to catch the Patriots in the act.

The assembled tapes would typically include three shots, one for the down and distance, a shot of the signals and close up of a cheerleader's skirt or top.

Patriots employees would go through a visiting team's hotel looking for playbooks and other materials left behind. They would also send a staffer into an opponent's locker room to steal play sheets with the first 20 scripted plays on them.

Stealing signals wasn't always an advantage, but it did help them against the less sophisticated teams, like the Dolphins and Bills.
ESPN nuked the Patriots and NFL for Spygate

ESPN nuked the Patriots and NFL for Spygate

 

[Vitamike]

And still more from ESPN...

HIS BOSSES WERE furious. Roger Goodell knew it. So on April 1, 2008, the NFL commissioner convened an emergency session of the league's spring meeting at The Breakers hotel in Palm Beach, Florida. Attendance was limited to each team's owner and head coach. A palpable anger and frustration had rumbled inside club front offices since the opening Sunday of the 2007 season. During the first half of the New England Patriots' game against the New York Jets at Giants Stadium, a 26-year-old Patriots video assistant named Matt Estrella had been caught on the sideline, illegally videotaping Jets coaches' defensive signals, beginning the scandal known as Spygate.

Behind closed doors, Goodell addressed what he called "the elephant in the room" and, according to sources at the meeting, turned over the floor to Robert Kraft. Then 66, the billionaire Patriots owner stood and apologized for the damage his team had done to the league and the public's confidence in pro football. Kraft talked about the deep respect he had for his 31 fellow owners and their shared interest in protecting the NFL's shield. Witnesses would later say Kraft's remarks were heartfelt, his demeanor chastened. For a moment, he seemed to well up.

Then the Patriots' coach, Bill Belichick, the cheating program's mastermind, spoke. He said he had merely misinterpreted a league rule, explaining that he thought it was legal to videotape opposing teams' signals as long as the material wasn't used in real time. Few in the room bought it. Belichick said he had made a mistake -- "my mistake."

Now it was Goodell's turn. The league office lifer, then 49 years old, had been commissioner just 18 months, promoted, in part, because of Kraft's support. His audience wanted to know why he had managed his first crisis in a manner at once hasty and strangely secretive. Goodell had imposed a $500,000 fine on Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the team and the loss of a first-round draft pick just four days after league security officials had caught the Patriots and before he'd even sent a team of investigators to Foxborough, Massachusetts. Those investigators hadn't come up empty: Inside a room accessible only to Belichick and a few others, they found a library of scouting material containing videotapes of opponents' signals, with detailed notes matching signals to plays for many teams going back seven seasons. Among them were handwritten diagrams of the defensive signals of the Pittsburgh Steelers, including the notes used in the January 2002 AFC Championship Game won by the Patriots 24-17. Yet almost as quickly as the tapes and notes were found, they were destroyed, on Goodell's orders: League executives stomped the tapes into pieces and shredded the papers inside a Gillette Stadium conference room.

Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart

Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart

 

[Red_Chaos]

I prefer the word tainted rather than asterik.

 

[Rambunctious]

After watching his performance in the 2nd half last week I think he can easily be considered the best or one of the best of all time. Dude has 5 rings. I still however can see Marshall's point of view. I believe Warner holds the same opinion. Lets face it, Brady wanted an edge on a damp night so he had the ball boy let some air out of the ball and he had a coach that would approve of it as well.
Who knows what other players have done over the years to gain that edge. I've heard stories of teams flooding their fields the night before the game. Setting off fire alarms in the visiting teams hotels and yes taping and spying. But if you get caught you get an asterisk...that's part of the deal.

 

[shopson67]

Brady's suspension was for interfering with an investigation more than the actual act of having the balls deflated (they couldn't prove a direct link). The idea that winning the super bowl somehow vindicates the Patriots is ridiculous. If anything, it proves that they don't need to cheat, but for some reason are always bending or breaking rules to get an extra edge.

As far as that spygate super bowl, my main issue was with the final drive. Redmond did not get out of bounds yet they stopped the clock on that drive. At best, Vinatieri should've been attempting a much longer FG.

 

[Vitamike]

As far as that spygate super bowl, my main issue was with the final drive. Redmond did not get out of bounds yet they stopped the clock on that drive. At best, Vinatieri should've been attempting a much longer FG.

So do you think this was just the part of football where a rule enforcement was missed (Failing to keep the clock running) or do you think it was part of the 911 conspiracy?

I mean there are a lot of those who think the League wanted the huge 14 pt underdog 'Patriots', wearing Red, White and Blue to overcome a formidable opponent such as the Greatest Show on Turf.

 

[shopson67]

So do you think this was just the part of football where a rule enforcement was missed (Failing to keep the clock running) or do you think it was part of the 911 conspiracy?

I mean there are a lot of those who think the League wanted the huge 14 pt underdog 'Patriots', wearing Red, White and Blue to overcome a formidable opponent such as the Greatest Show on Turf?

Whether or not it was part of some greater conspiracy doesn't matter to me (although it did occur to me at the time, lol). The call was missed and prevented the game from going to OT.

 

[Vitamike]

Whether or not it was part of some greater conspiracy doesn't matter to me (although it did occur to me at the time, lol). The call was missed and prevented the game from going to OT.

I know what you mean. If it was part of a greater conspiracy it probably was not a 911 conspiracy, but all them details sure did line up well for those supporting the 911 deal, didn't they.

I honestly think the walk through was taped.

The camera guy Walsh, was heard by stadium officials saying 'We should have filmed that', which insinuates he watched the whole walkthrough. And I don't buy that there was no power or battery packs when they set up the cameras. How can he set up the equipment without power? It's not like an ordinary camera, its a video camera and every video camera I've ever seen needs power to look through the view finder to see if you are set up correctly. They didn't go up there and set up without any power, that would have had to have been a diliberate action to stay above board, and we all know now that they were acting the exact opposite when it came to these things.

Besides all that, Walsh was no boy scout, he was fired for illegally audio taping the Pats brass. LOL He was scalping SB tickets, he admitted to turning his official Patriots sweater inside out or taping over the Pats logo, he changed out his Pats credentials to credentials that weren't associated to either team, and the list goes on and on and on.

 

[27mtrcougar]

Kurt said it best... He already is the best without the 5th ring which he got. Cant argue with Kurt.

 

[RobBase]

Fascinating seeing adults with other adults lives trapped in their heads. How much time exactly in each day does Faulk devote to thinking about Brady?! Talk about tortured.

 

[27mtrcougar]

 

[Rex Racer]

Fascinating seeing adults with other adults lives trapped in their heads. How much time exactly in each day does Faulk devote to thinking about Brady?! Talk about tortured.

Faulk is just a pussy, plain and simple. His head is still scrambled from the first half of that SB when Willie McGinest spend 30 minutes beating the shit out of him every time he stepped over the line of scrimmage. It was beautiful to watch.

 

[Retroram52]

That is true Rex Racer. The Patriots did the same thing to Warner and the Rams did not make the adjustments to help two of the big three from getting disrupted. You must admit though that the defensive strategy the Patriots employed was pretty good when you know what the offense is doing and what plays they are going to run!

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Well, in the court of public opinion, Faulk is taking it on the chin. A lot of negative comments on Marshall's game performance and sportsmanship.

No sense in doing a poll here on the Rams boards, (And I didn't feel like putting this up on the General NFL boards, because I just didn't have any potato salad to offer) but I thought I could hear from some of you.

2017 Super Bowl: Marshall Faulk says Brady's greatness should have an asterisk

For what it's worth, I recently had a discussion with my work buddy and all his brothers in Yankeeland. And my good buddy (The guy I work with) called Marshall an Ass. For someone as reserved and proper as my buddy is, his comment came as a surprise.

Then I read this article and the comment section listed below the article, and yes, for Marshall stating his beliefs and his opinions, to many he is just a poor sport.

I personally think it's a brave stance because it looks so much like sour grapes, so I applaud Marshall for not cowering to appearances!

BTW - As previously stated in another thread here on the Rams boards, I'm with Marshall, 100%!

I'll share some additional info and maybe we could have a good discussion on some of the 'facts'. I'd certainly like to have some insight from some of you! Important details I may have missed (?)

Thanks in advance, because I'm going to post a lot of reading material, but first read through the short article I've already included.

Great post as usual vitamike. I agree its good to see Faulk speak up without worry of backlash. And I agree with him. That entire play off run was engulfed in controversy.From the tuck rule game.Which was clearly a fumble. And has been analyzed 100 times over.With the consensus that it was indeed a fumble.That by definition would have ended the game and led to the raiders advancing. Down to spygate along with several questionable calls and plays in the Super Bowl. As much as I liked former Trojan McGinest I can't buy his comments on the game.He was a great player but his perrformance in that game.Seemed an awful lot like he knew the plays.Asterisk may actually be an understatement for 2001. Good for Faulk speaking up