Kelchner's words

[WVUDAD]

I have realized one of my problems with Holgorsen coaching our team. He said the biggest difference between his time at ND and WVU was that at ND they went into each game EXPECTING to win, and at WVU they went into games HOPING to win. Under Nehlen and before as well as Fraud's first few years, that was my view as a fan, I HOPED WVU would win, from about 2004 until 2011 I had come to expect a win each week, felt even in games where WVU was trailing, that they would come back and win. Every game in that timeframe was winnable and competative. Since Holgorsen took over, I am back to hoping for wins, and feel that when WVU gets behind, panic sets in, and there is no chance of a win. Just my opinion, any other thoughts are welcome.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

That's not all Holgorsen though. A lot of that comes from moving to the Big 12. Let's face it, the Big East rarely had more than one team that could challenge WVU. When WVU would lose in BE play, it was nearly always an upset. We have gone from playing one or two (sometimes zero) top 25 teams to playing 5 or 6. That's a huge difference in scheduling.

I just ask that we win the games we should win, especially with this team. While this may be Holgorsen's third year, remember that his first year wasn't fully his. DH has had two recruiting classes, and I've always been of the mind that it takes 4 years to really know where a coach is leading a team.

I also saw a stat today that WVU is one of the 10 youngest teams in the country. RR had to rebuild the team in his image when he took over and now DH is doing the same. It's not an instant process, but we'll know in the next two years if DH will lead WVU to anything more than mediocrity.

 

[WVUDAD]

Mac, I really do not see the strength in the B12 that some claim is there (duck and cover for the onslaught) College football is an extremely hard game to win, and the difference between a win and a loss is razor thin. What the other leagues have (had) over the BE was more middle of the pack teams. In the last few years USF, UL, Cinci, and Rutgers have all been ranked in the top ten, even top five. AND, even though WVU was favored more often than not, there were almost always losses in the BE. Considering the HUGE drop off in OOC opponent quality, the strength of the ENTIRE schedule is on par with what WVU played when in the BE.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

In the last few years USF, UL, Cinci, and Rutgers have all been ranked in the top ten, even top five.

USF is about to go to 0-3, losing to Florida Atlantic. They have already been blown out by McNeese State and Michigan State.

UL is highly ranked and has Teddy Bridgewater. They will be gone next year, so had we stayed we wouldn't be playing them anyway. But yes, UL has been pretty good again since hiring Strong.

Cinci blew out Purdue, got blown out by Illinois and is winning big against Northwestern State.

Rutgers us 2-1 losing to Fresno State and beating Norfolk State and Eastern Michigan. Not that it matters, they're gone too.

Now Dad, those are your prize teams, the cream of the crop and only UofL is ranked. Meanwhile we have 3-0 Okie State #12, 2-0 Baylor #23, 3-0 Texas Tech (NR) and just lost to 3-0 Oklahoma #14. TT will be in the top 25 next week. That's the difference, the depth of the league. The Big East had a lot of bottom feeders that can't beat FAU, FIU, and directional Michigan.

 

[jgb]

You two make such a Loving Couple I am realy Happy for both of you

 

[bbwvfan]

Interesting...

You were expecting WVU to win the Sugar, the Fiesta.... as well as road games at AU and LSU.

While I can only speak for myself, I did not expect WVU to win any of those games. Nor did I expect WVU to beat Cincy or USF on the road in Rich's and Bill's tenure.

Those were games I hoped they win... as well as some road games at Pitt.

It is also interesting to look at your timeline. While we all know your feelings about Dana, the move to the Big 12 must factor into your POV without your awareness.

Had WVU stayed in the BE last year, how many games would they have not been favored? If they remained in what is left of the BE this year... the AAC... how many games would they not have been favored?

FSU is the only significant change in the OOC schedule for the past 2 years. It is easy to see how much stronger our SOS was last year than any from the period you presented in your timeframe.... 04-11.

 

[GoldRusher]

Not to be a smart a@@ but there is a HUGE difference between Notre Dame and WVU when you talk football program/history/money and BTW when Holtz was there( the last time they won the MNC) he cheated.

 

[WVUDAD]

OVERALL, the schedule is of similar strength, I DID not say Cinci was Oklahoma. Remember, Luck bought out OOC games with FSU, MSU so we could keep JMU and run out and get GAST and W&M. And YES, I did expect to win those Bowls, WVU could compete with ANYONE in that stretch. Gold, attitude is a great decider of games, when you expect to lose, you usually do, as you are playing against your attitude as well as the other team. Look at how many of the PSU games over the years where WVU had a late lead and lost because they expected to lose.
AND... The B12..... where is all this strength..... Texas, NOPE, KSU, NOPE, Kansas, IA ST?? NOPE as you said OSU is good, but they cheat, so OU is your strength?????

 

[bbwvfan]

It isn't true that the overall SOS is of similar strength today compared to when WVU played in the BE.

Despite WVU having a stronger OOC schedule in 2010 compared to 2012... here are the SOS rankings as determined by Sagarin. As you know, he is one of the computer rankings used in the BCS...

USATODAY.com

USATODAY.com

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

So, as you can see the SOS for the following years was determined to be...

2010 - #60
2011 - #57

2012 - #29

 

[bbwvfan]

As far as I know, the Big 12 has a ranked team in Okie St., OU and Baylor. TCU will certainly drop out.

Clearly, this is going to be a down year for the Big 12, but noone would say the AAC is a stronger conference than the Big 12.

 

[jgb]

BBWV You can't argue wit DAD's opinion. And all them games he expected to lose or win, Dad didn't carry the ball once. Never in my life did I expect WVU to win every game in anyone year. The only way you can win every game in a year is to have the Ball bounce the right way for you in certain games. At West Virginia WE hope that West Virginia will have a good year. We hope there is a chance we go undefeated. We hope to Win a National champion Ship. We Hope that the Program Does well and the Team and State is well respected Nation wide. Take the Good with the Bad. OK don't forget to give me the Thumbs Down

 

[bbwvfan]

OVERALL, the schedule is of similar strength, I DID not say Cinci was Oklahoma. Remember, Luck bought out OOC games with FSU, MSU so we could keep JMU and run out and get GAST and W&M. And YES, I did expect to win those Bowls, WVU could compete with ANYONE in that stretch. Gold, attitude is a great decider of games, when you expect to lose, you usually do, as you are playing against your attitude as well as the other team. Look at how many of the PSU games over the years where WVU had a late lead and lost because they expected to lose.
AND... The B12..... where is all this strength..... Texas, NOPE, KSU, NOPE, Kansas, IA ST?? NOPE as you said OSU is good, but they cheat, so OU is your strength?????

The W&M game was part of Bill Stewart's idea to play FCS schools that are located close to WVU. Since he had been the HC at VMI until he was forced out... he felt a sense of kinship to their plight.

WVU asked to drop FSU and MSU... from future years... as a result of joining the Big 12. The GSU game was a late scramble to fill the FSU void on the home schedule this year.

How did you know WVU could compete with ANYONE in 2005? After the beatdown by VT, they had played only one other ranked team... UofL. They needed the ref's to make a bad call late in the game on an onside kick to even push that one to OT.

 

[WVUDAD]

You are so right BB, we really didnt see a 1AA team knock off the B12 champion, did we???? in 2005 WVU played THREE ranked teams and went 2-1, In 2007 WVU played FIVE ranked teams and went 4-1 against them, LAST year WVU played FOUR ranked teams and went 2-2 in them, Leagues and teams go up and down, The BE, just as every other league ebbs and flows, the B12 is WAYYYY down this year. Look at Texas, look at KSU, and dont try to give value to wins over KU or IAST, Temple would beat either one.

 

[bbwvfan]

You are so right BB, we really didnt see a 1AA team knock off the B12 champion, did we???? in 2005 WVU played THREE ranked teams and went 2-1, In 2007 WVU played FIVE ranked teams and went 4-1 against them, LAST year WVU played FOUR ranked teams and went 2-2 in them, Leagues and teams go up and down, The BE, just as every other league ebbs and flows, the B12 is WAYYYY down this year. Look at Texas, look at KSU, and dont try to give value to wins over KU or IAST, Temple would beat either one.

You mean last year's Big 12 champion... right? KSU replaced a large number of seniors from last year's Big 12 championship team. And, they were not playing just any FCS team either... but the 2-time defending FCS champions.

Of course... it is your opinion that Temple would beat either KU or ISU. Not sure how many would agree with you though.

Temple lost yesterday to a FCS squad.... Fordham.

Not sure why you referenced WVU's record against ranked teams in '05 or '07, it has nothing to do with overall SOS. If you are using them to validate your point that you expected WVU to win their bowl games those years, it is a pretty weak argument on your part. The '05 record you cited against ranked opponents includes the Sugar result.

The '07 team went into the Fiesta not only coming off the loss to a 28 pt dog vs. Pitt to get knocked out of the BCS bowl, they lost their HC as well. There are few... if any... examples of teams playing in a major bowl game with an interim HC and winning.

Only you know if you're being honest... or not...

And, while the Big 12 is way down.... it is still stronger than the AAC.

 

[bbwvfan]

WVU's SOS in 2005 was ranked #63 by Sagarin.

USATODAY.com

The BE had only two other teams that finished the year with a winning record, RU and UofL.

WVU had to have the ref's make a great error... one in which BE admins later wrote to UofL to apologize... to get a chance to take UofL to OT.

 

[bbwvfan]

WVU's 2007 SOS was ranked #40 by Sagarin.

USATODAY.com

Even playing all of the ranked teams you cited Dad, WVU did not earn as high of a SOS ranking in '07 as they did last year in the Big 12.

2007 was one of the strongest years for the BE... as we had all but two teams with at least a .500 record.

 

[bbwvfan]

I have realized one of my problems with Holgorsen coaching our team. He said the biggest difference between his time at ND and WVU was that at ND they went into each game EXPECTING to win, and at WVU they went into games HOPING to win. Under Nehlen and before as well as Fraud's first few years, that was my view as a fan, I HOPED WVU would win, from about 2004 until 2011 I had come to expect a win each week, felt even in games where WVU was trailing, that they would come back and win. Every game in that timeframe was winnable and competative. Since Holgorsen took over, I am back to hoping for wins, and feel that when WVU gets behind, panic sets in, and there is no chance of a win. Just my opinion, any other thoughts are welcome.

In Holgorsen's first year as HC, WVU came from behind to win their last 3 regular season games... as well as the Orange Bowl game.

They overcame a 4th qtr deficit... 21-17 to beat Cincy at Cincy.

They overcame a 20-10 Pitt lead in the 2nd half to beat Pitt 21-10.

They fell behind USF in the 4th qtr 27-20 before coming back to win on the road to secure a tie for the BE championship.

So, I guess I am at a loss to understand your present opinion.

Panic... no chance to win...

 

[WVUDAD]

In Holgorsen's first year as HC, WVU came from behind to win their last 3 regular season games... as well as the Orange Bowl game.

They overcame a 4th qtr deficit... 21-17 to beat Cincy at Cincy.

They overcame a 20-10 Pitt lead in the 2nd half to beat Pitt 21-10.

They fell behind USF in the 4th qtr 27-20 before coming back to win on the road to secure a tie for the BE championship.

So, I guess I am at a loss to understand your present opinion.

Panic... no chance to win...

They had a 17-7 lead on Cinci at the half, and HELD ON to win 24-21
They were up on USF 13-7 at the half and 20-13 after three quarters,

Yes they came back from down 17-7 at the half and down 20-14 after three against sPitt, at no time was the score 20-10, WVU only scored TDs in that game.

I was talking about the LSU game, the 'Cuse game, where there was no chance to win, where time outs were wasted (and continue to be) where play calling became VERY predictable, where you could see on the players faces and see in their body language that they had quit. Come on, BB, you can do better than those games, where WVU held leads and happened to let a team come back on them.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

OVERALL, the schedule is of similar strength, I DID not say Cinci was Oklahoma. Remember, Luck bought out OOC games with FSU, MSU so we could keep JMU and run out and get GAST and W&M. And YES, I did expect to win those Bowls, WVU could compete with ANYONE in that stretch. Gold, attitude is a great decider of games, when you expect to lose, you usually do, as you are playing against your attitude as well as the other team. Look at how many of the PSU games over the years where WVU had a late lead and lost because they expected to lose.
AND... The B12..... where is all this strength..... Texas, NOPE, KSU, NOPE, Kansas, IA ST?? NOPE as you said OSU is good, but they cheat, so OU is your strength?????

I named off the cream of the Big 12 so don't ignore it and then ask where the strength is. I already told you. You would have us play 0-3 Temple, 0-3 USF, 0-2 Memphis, 0-2 UConn. Temple has lost to TWO FCS schools. The rest have each lost to a FCS school and poor Memphis got blown out by DUKE.

BTW, KST is 2-1. North Dakota State may be FCS, but they're also #1 in FCS for the third consecutive year. I'd wager they could win the Big East. Iowa State and Kansas are known to be dredges, no argument there.

So even with your bottom of the barrel argument, you lose. KST, IAST, KS are stronger than Temple, USF, Memphis and UConn.

 

[bbwvfan]

They had a 17-7 lead on Cinci at the half, and HELD ON to win 24-21
They were up on USF 13-7 at the half and 20-13 after three quarters,

Yes they came back from down 17-7 at the half and down 20-14 after three against sPitt, at no time was the score 20-10, WVU only scored TDs in that game.

I was talking about the LSU game, the 'Cuse game, where there was no chance to win, where time outs were wasted (and continue to be) where play calling became VERY predictable, where you could see on the players faces and see in their body language that they had quit. Come on, BB, you can do better than those games, where WVU held leads and happened to let a team come back on them.

So... I had a typo about the Pitt game. There is no way to edit the post I could find.

Why does it matter if WVU was ahead in either of the USF or Cincy games at halftime? You are the one that said they panic when they fall behind.... right?

Do you want to restate your premise?

At what point in the game do you feel WVU hits the panic button under Dana when it falls behind?

This should be good....