If Halle and Queens were 1000 masters series

[Hs0022]

Fed would have 37 total masters crown, more than either Rafa or Djoker now.

This is the “lopsided ness” I was referring to in the other thread.

 

[bksballer89]

I agree that grass season should have at least 1 masters 1000 event.

Grass season is much shorter than clay and hardcourt season so expecting anything else is a bit much

 

[Hs0022]

I agree that grass season should have at least 1 masters 1000 event.

Grass season is much shorter than clay and hardcourt season so expecting anything else is a bit much

Was Halle considered as a 250 before? I am not sure have to look into that. I think they did a switch or upgrade at some point.

I don’t know why this disdain for grass events by the ATP? After tennis started as “ lawn tennis” when the sport was invented.

 

[bksballer89]

Was Halle considered as a 250 before? I am not sure have to look into that. I think they did a switch or upgrade at some point.

I don’t know why this disdain for grass events by the ATP? After tennis started as “ lawn tennis” when the sport was invented.

According to wiki, it was a 250 event from 2009-2014 then changed to a 500 event starting in 2015

 

[nuraman00]

According to wiki, it was a 250 event from 2009-2014 then changed to a 500 event starting in 2015

Yeah, so it's moving on up.

 

[nuraman00]

Fed would have 37 total masters crown, more than either Rafa or Djoker now.

This is the “lopsided ness” I was referring to in the other thread.

FED has trouble returning serves on grass.

He would lose some matches to the Feliciano Lopez types.

He's lost to Tommy Haas 2x on grass, Borna Coric, Thiem, Alexander Zverev, Tsonga, Mario Ancic, Kevin Anderson. He'd beat most of these if they were on hard courts.

Grass used to be his best surface, but sometime after 2007 or 2008, it became hard courts.

He also always picks the grass tourneys with less competition.

 

[nuraman00]

Halle and Queen's Club occur the same week.

Federer has always played Halle, except in 1999, when he played Queen's Club instead.

so FED could never play both.

Halle usually has less top players.

 

[nuraman00]

I agree that grass season should have at least 1 masters 1000 event.

Grass season is much shorter than clay and hardcourt season so expecting anything else is a bit much

I agree with that. With a 3 week break, they could make the middle week the Masters 1000 week.

However, since Queen's Club and Halle occur during the same week, one of those tourneys would lose too much money.

Maybe they need a 4 week break, but they don't want to do that.

So by having two 500 events, neither tourney really has to compete with the other too much. The tourneys also have to figure which way is the best for them to generate revenue, and with only a 3 week break, it's best not to have a Masters 1000, otherwise people would pull out of the others.

A 4 week break would provide a good solution so there's still attendance during the other weeks. However, the FO has its best attendance at the end of May, and Wimbledon has its best at the beginning of July, so not sure they can really move things around.

 

[bksballer89]

Halle and Queen's Club occur the same week.

Federer has always played Halle, except in 1999, when he played Queen's Club instead.

so FED could never play both.

Halle usually has less top players.

More reason why Grass season should be longer than 3 weeks.

2 of the weeks only feature 250 events then they have the 500 events on the same week.

 

[Hs0022]

Make Queens a masters event and have Halle and Queens play in different weeks.
Grass court tennis is usually shorter matches. This is doable and make the grass season a bit longer.

 

[nuraman00]

More reason why Grass season should be longer than 3 weeks.

2 of the weeks only feature 250 events then they have the 500 events on the same week.

Make Queens a masters event and have Halle and Queens play in different weeks.
Grass court tennis is usually shorter matches. This is doable and make the grass season a bit longer.

I agree with trying to make Queen's a Masters 1000.

Let me point out more logistical issues though. I didn't have time to post about it earlier, but now I do.

Here's the typical schedule in between the French Open and Wimbledon:

* June 10 - 16: Mercedes Cup. Stuttgart, Germany (250 event)

* June 10 - 16: Libema Open. s-Hertogenbosch, Netherlands (250 event)

* June 17 - 23: Queen's Club. London, England (500 event)

* June 17 - 23: Gerry Webber. Halle, Germany (500 event)

* June 23 - 29: Turkish Airlines Open. Antalya, Turkey (250 event)

* June 24 - 29: Nature Valley Open. Eastborne, London (250 event)

So you already have 6 events in 3 weeks.

You can't put Halle and Stuggart in the same week, because they're both in Germany. You can't have 2 tournaments in Germany in the same week.

They're also unlikely to remove an event. The tour loses revenue if they kill an event. They lose the sponsorship money, they lose the attendance.

Maybe they can move the Netherlands event to sometime after Wimbledon. I mean, they have some clay events right after Wimbledon.

But, each of those weeks after Wimbledon already have 2 tournaments each. They can't really have 3 tournaments in a week.

Actually, I just checked. These weeks have 3 tournaments during a year:

* Dec. 31st: Doha, Quatar; Brisbane, Australia; Pune, India.

* Feb. 04: Montpellier, France; Cordoba, Argentina; Sofia, Bulgaria

* Feb. 11: New York, USA; Buenos Aires, Argentina; Rotterdam, Netherlands

* Feb. 18: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil; Marseille, France; Delray Beach, USA

* Feb. 25: Dubai, United Arab Emirates; Acapulco, Mexico; Sao Paolo, Brazil

* July 22: Gstaad, Switzerland; Hamburg, Germany; Atlanta, USA

* July 29: Los Cabos, Mexico; Kitzbuhel, Austria; Washington, USA

* Oct. 14: Moscow, Russia; Antwerp, Belgium; Stockholm, Sweden

So if these 8 weeks already have 3 tourneys a week, then it is possible.

I'd say they could move the Mercedes Cup and the Libema Open both to other weeks of the year.

They can't have the Mercedes Cup on July 22nd though, since there's already a tourney in Hamburg.

They could have it on July 15th though. There's only 2 tourneys that week.

And then move the Libema Open to another time during the year too.

Maybe in August.

Then they could have Halle on June 10th. And make Gerry Webber a 1000 event on June 17th.

Is it ideal having a 500 event right after a major? No. But this is the only way I could see the scheduling work.

 

[nuraman00]

FED has trouble returning serves on grass.

He would lose some matches to the Feliciano Lopez types.

He's lost to Tommy Haas 2x on grass, Borna Coric, Thiem, Alexander Zverev, Tsonga, Mario Ancic, Kevin Anderson. He'd beat most of these if they were on hard courts.

Grass used to be his best surface, but sometime after 2007 or 2008, it became hard courts.

He also always picks the grass tourneys with less competition.

I still think this point stands, that even if there was a grass Masters 1000 event, he'd still lose more than some people think.

In a best of 3, which produces more upsets, it's easier to beat him. Most of those guys above fit the big server types where it's hard to produce a break point. Take the Tsonga match at Wimbledon. He had 1 break point in a 5 set match.

If he plays them on a hard court, he then puts pressure on the opposing serve, by getting into their service games. They'll them miss more serves, and he'll have more break chances.

Take FED vs. Roddick for example. During a few of their Wimbledon matches, Roddick would win a set. Or more, in 2009.

During their Australian Open matches, Roddick would lose in straight sets.

 

[Hs0022]

I still think this point stands, that even if there was a grass Masters 1000 event, he'd still lose more than some people think.

In a best of 3, which produces more upsets, it's easier to beat him. Most of those guys above fit the big server types where it's hard to produce a break point. Take the Tsonga match at Wimbledon. He had 1 break point in a 5 set match.

If he plays them on a hard court, he then puts pressure on the opposing serve, by getting into their service games. They'll them miss more serves, and he'll have more break chances.

Take FED vs. Roddick for example. During a few of their Wimbledon matches, Roddick would win a set. Or more, in 2009.

During their Australian Open matches, Roddick would lose in straight sets.

The only thing you are keeping constant is Fed’s game in your argument which is NOT scientific. I think he can change his game according to the surface and situation. My point still stands. If Halle was a 1000 masters he would have 37 masters titles.

 

[bksballer89]

The only thing you are keeping constant is Fed’s game in your argument which is NOT scientific. I think he can change his game according to the surface and situation. My point still stands. If Halle was a 1000 masters he would have 37 masters titles.

Why you making assumptions though?