I hate when fans say a pick was a reach

[gowazzu02]

Why because kiper said so? Or the mockers didnt mention the player enough, or gasp because espn was too busy talking about manziel? Or whoever the cowboys or giants are rumored to get

If you say your team reached,,,you are sayin that kiper and the rest are smarter then your front office.

How many times do i need to point to the seahawks grade that was given a f. If you google russel wilson draft grade tweet, youll see his pic with his f graded draft class celebrating their super bowl win.

 

[fearthepelicans]

As opposed to blind homerism in saying your team killed it with every pick?

 

[Clayton]

I agree that Kiper and many scouts are stuck in a box. If they cant imagine how a guy like Bruce Irvin can't be used on the football field then that they lack imagination.

But tape of these guys playing football means something. Rams had bad drafts for a decade because they almost always got cute and reached on their picks. Seattle has their share of busts but their late round guys have been paying off in major, major ways

 

[Naughtymax]

I hate when you order barbecue at a new place and the meat comes with zero smoke ring and vinegar-based sauces only.

Oh, this isn't a general whining thread? My bad.

 

[gowazzu02]

In one breath the talking heads can say Seattle changed the way people draft then the next criticize the pick they just made.

but thats not what im talking about with this thread. Take Arizona for example, people say they "reached for Bucannon" I don't understand that. Just because Kiper thinks he goes in the 2nd or 3rd. Or some random mocker. Buc was the best SS in the draft. They traded down once already. And took him. But people complain they reached. I just dont get it.

 

[Clayton]

but thats not what im talking about with this thread. Take Arizona for example, people say they "reached for Bucannon" I don't understand that. Just because Kiper thinks he goes in the 2nd or 3rd. Or some random mocker. Buc was the best SS in the draft. They traded down once already. And took him. But people complain they reached. I just dont get it.

If you watch enough of a player, you get an opinion. For example, I think Mike Evans and Calvin Pryor are overhyped. They could also have good careers because Ive never met them and I dont know what they are willing to work on with their game.

 

[Jikkle]

In one breath the talking heads can say Seattle changed the way people draft then the next criticize the pick they just made.

but thats not what im talking about with this thread. Take Arizona for example, people say they "reached for Bucannon" I don't understand that. Just because Kiper thinks he goes in the 2nd or 3rd. Or some random mocker. Buc was the best SS in the draft. They traded down once already. And took him. But people complain they reached. I just dont get it.

I don't think the talking heads were criticizing the players they took but just where they took them at. If you're taking a player that could've been had in the 5th in the 2nd it's really bad value. That doesn't mean the guy you "reached" for won't be a quality player it's just that you could've had that player and another talented player instead.

In general "reach" is far too overused in the draft. If you don't believe a players is still going to be on the board when you pick again then I wouldn't call it a reach. People saying 9ers reached for Jimmie Ward at 30 because they thought he was a 2nd round prospect is splitting hairs.

And ultimately nobody cares where you take a player if he becomes a quality starter. Who says "Well he's an All-Pro but the team really reached for him a couple years back as he could've been had 2 rounds later?"

 

[milker2324]

I feel the same way about this and people saying players were steals (right after the draft). Just because "experts" had a 2nd-3rd round grade on someone and your team got him as a 6/7/UDFA, doesnt mean he was a steal. Also, college performance and stats =/= potential for pro performance and stats.

 

[milker2324]

I don't think the talking heads were criticizing the players they took but just where they took them at. If you're taking a player that could've been had in the 5th in the 2nd it's really bad value. That doesn't mean the guy you "reached" for won't be a quality player it's just that you could've had that player and another talented player instead.

In general "reach" is far too overused in the draft. If you don't believe a players is still going to be on the board when you pick again then I wouldn't call it a reach. People saying 9ers reached for Jimmie Ward at 30 because they thought he was a 2nd round prospect is splitting hairs.

And ultimately nobody cares where you take a player if he becomes a quality starter. Who says "Well he's an All-Pro but the team really reached for him a couple years back as he could've been had 2 rounds later?"

I agree with the thing about reaches. If you do not believe a player will be available by your next pick, that is not a reach. However with the other point, just because someone has a 5th round grade on someone, doesnt mean that there arent multiple teams with a 2nd round grade on them. You want to take that guy. You may not view that equally "talented" player the same as the other. there are too many variables that go into who they want. Talent, production, character, work ethic, leadership, etc.

 

[JDM]

All it takes is one team in front of you grading a guy as a second rounder for a first round spot to be the only chance you have at a guy. If he's your guy, it's not a reach, whether Kiper grades him as a seventh rounder or not.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Strange thread. That Russell is better than expected is hardly evidence that teams don't sometimes reach. Anyone remember a team trading up to draft a guy named Tim Tebow in the first round?

 

[Clayton]

Strange thread. That Russell is better than expected is hardly evidence that teams don't sometimes reach. Anyone remember a team trading up to draft a guy named Tim Tebow in the first round?

Its like a baseball coach getting lucky when he puts a guy in who has bad situational numbers and that player gets the game winning hit. Sometimes the analysis is wrong but a lot of times, the big boards are there for a reason.

 

[JDM]

And Manziel was drafted seven rounds early this draft.


But when there's legitimate talent and potential, the pick isn't a reach if there's a realistic possibility he won't be there the next round.

 

[gowazzu02]

Im glad some of you guys agree.

The thing that is the most maddening is people are taking Kiper and Mcshay and whoevers "value" as gospel. "Deone Bucannon is a reach" Because Kiper had him as a second rounder? Well good for Mel, but Bruce Arians one of the best football minds in the game had a first round value, Kiper was wrong, not Arians.

 

[Clayton]

Well good for Mel, but Bruce Arians one of the best football minds in the game had a first round value, Kiper was wrong, not Arians.

Thats not exactly correct.

Guys like Kiper look at game film and project the overall value of the player.
Guys like Arians are looking at how the player fits in his system and values the player based on that.

 

[melmaan]

Dominique Easley #29 to the New England Patriots has been called a "reach".

I've read 3 articles / 3 papers / 3 authors that Seattle traded out of #32 when Easley was chosen by the Pats.

a reach at #29? and yet a Super Bowl coaches choice at #32?

In Kiper'''s you trust?

 

[JDM]

By most accounts, talent wise he would have been a top pick, and he only even made it to us because of tearing both ACLs, and ACL injuries aren't the risk they used to be. So I'm happy with the pick.

I don't know that it's conclusive that Seattle would have taken him, though.

 

[gowazzu02]

Thats not exactly correct.

Guys like Kiper look at game film and project the overall value of the player.
Guys like Arians are looking at how the player fits in his system and values the player based on that.

Mel Kiper comparing Jamarcus Russell to John Elway

Again IF Kiper thinks someone has a "third round grade" Why do people care? Mel Kiper got what THREE picks right in this years final mock?

 

[Jikkle]

Mel Kiper comparing Jamarcus Russell to John Elway

Again IF Kiper thinks someone has a "third round grade" Why do people care? Mel Kiper got what THREE picks right in this years final mock?

I suppose to be fair Russell didn't turn into a lazy slob until after he was drafted so who knows what he would've been if he was dedicated to his craft.

Analysts like Kiper just provide some talking points for fans to talk about which is why I never obsess with value and look at the GM's history of drafting and base my faith on that. Like in general I trust Baalke when it comes to picking defensive guys but I don't have a lot of faith in his ability to evaluate the WR position.

 

[SonnyCID]

I suppose to be fair Russell didn't turn into a lazy slob until after he was drafted so who knows what he would've been if he was dedicated to his craft.

His dedication and work ethic were highly questionable before that draft.