Hoskins, Kingery Working Toward Promotions

[Frizzle]

Klentak is responsible for shaping the team however, he got the job only in october of 15. He has only had 2 draft classes and has needed to re-build the farm system from what Amaro had left him.

Klentak made those dumpster diving acquisitions mainly to buy himself some time. I think we all thought that the phillies would be better this year.

Williams and Cozens were both drafted in 2012. MLB rules dictate that Once you draft a domestic young player out of school/sign a foreign free agent, you have to call him up to the majors within 5 years, or he's a free agent and can leave to sign with the highest bidder.

Both being brought up later and not on the starting roster gives them 7 years of control of the player.

Hoskins was drafted in 14 so we prob won't see him at the earliest till mid/late june next year.

Overall I understand why the FO is doing what it has been doing. I don't like it but it makes sense contract wise and bringing up guys at this point is hopeless unless they can move players out via trade and then forced to bring up other players.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Hoskins and Kingery are both not on the 40-man roster. So they'd have to make a roster move and either get rid of someone like Stassi or Blanco to make room for Hoskins or Kingery.

I'd like to see them move on from Franco at third, but I guess the real question is, can Cesar play third? There isn't much else that's major league ready, unless they get some scrub back in a trade.

 

[jvett77]

Cesar can't play third, I'm sure. Too early to give up on Franco. Yes, dump Stassi and Blanco and Kelly. Let the hitting beasts rule!

 

[northeastphillyguy]

Klentak is responsible for shaping the team however, he got the job only in october of 15. He has only had 2 draft classes and has needed to re-build the farm system from what Amaro had left him.

Klentak made those dumpster diving acquisitions mainly to buy himself some time. I think we all thought that the phillies would be better this year.

Williams and Cozens were both drafted in 2012. MLB rules dictate that Once you draft a domestic young player out of school/sign a foreign free agent, you have to call him up to the majors within 5 years, or he's a free agent and can leave to sign with the highest bidder.

Both being brought up later and not on the starting roster gives them 7 years of control of the player.

Hoskins was drafted in 14 so we prob won't see him at the earliest till mid/late june next year.

Overall I understand why the FO is doing what it has been doing. I don't like it but it makes sense contract wise and bringing up guys at this point is hopeless unless they can move players out via trade and then forced to bring up other players.

I agree. They are not going to change things just to please impatient fans. It is all about control.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

Hoskins and Kingery are both not on the 40-man roster. So they'd have to make a roster move and either get rid of someone like Stassi or Blanco to make room for Hoskins or Kingery.

I'd like to see them move on from Franco at third, but I guess the real question is, can Cesar play third? There isn't much else that's major league ready, unless they get some scrub back in a trade.

We are stuck with the current scrubs, Kelly, Blanco etc. mostly because of injuries to Hernandez and Kendrick.

 

[Retroram52]

Unfortunately that is probably the reality of the situation, Northeast.

 

[jvett77]

Klentak is responsible for shaping the team however, he got the job only in october of 15. He has only had 2 draft classes and has needed to re-build the farm system from what Amaro had left him.

Klentak made those dumpster diving acquisitions mainly to buy himself some time. I think we all thought that the phillies would be better this year.

Williams and Cozens were both drafted in 2012. MLB rules dictate that Once you draft a domestic young player out of school/sign a foreign free agent, you have to call him up to the majors within 5 years, or he's a free agent and can leave to sign with the highest bidder.

Both being brought up later and not on the starting roster gives them 7 years of control of the player.

Hoskins was drafted in 14 so we prob won't see him at the earliest till mid/late june next year.

Overall I understand why the FO is doing what it has been doing. I don't like it but it makes sense contract wise and bringing up guys at this point is hopeless unless they can move players out via trade and then forced to bring up other players.

5 years or 7 years control should really not matter for any team let alone a team that is desperate for a winner. So much can happen in that time frame. You mean they'd postpone winning more games this year by delaying Hoskins arrival just so that he will be under Phillies control till 2021 rather than 2019? Can you clarify; not sure I understand this total bureaucratic BS. It's a business but something is obviously wrong with Phillies thinking.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

5 years or 7 years control should really not matter for any team let alone a team that is desperate for a winner. So much can happen in that time frame. You mean they'd postpone winning more games this year by delaying Hoskins arrival just so that he will be under Phillies control till 2021 rather than 2019? Can you clarify; not sure I understand this total bureaucratic BS. It's a business but something is obviously wrong with Phillies thinking.

Drink no wine before its time!

 

[jvett77]

Bring up the hitting beasts now! Wait a second, Ty Kelly's coming to the plate. Oh, Great!!

 

[jvett77]

Drink no wine before its time!

Nothing wrong with a little taste. It can always return to the cooler.

 

[Frizzle]

5 years or 7 years control should really not matter for any team let alone a team that is desperate for a winner. So much can happen in that time frame. You mean they'd postpone winning more games this year by delaying Hoskins arrival just so that he will be under Phillies control till 2021 rather than 2019? Can you clarify; not sure I understand this total bureaucratic BS. It's a business but something is obviously wrong with Phillies thinking.

1. It's actually a 7 year contract when a player is drafted to a minor league deal. After that 5 years the player becomes eligible for the rule 5 draft. 4 years for a player drafted from a 4 year college. If not drafted in the rule 5 or added to the 40-man roster to be protected from it, the player is still under contract until that 7 year mark or they are released. After that he becomes a free agent.

2.A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).

3. According to MLB rules, players become eligible for free agency—that is, free to field competitive bids for their services, sign with any team that wants them and (presumably) cash in on their true market value—after six full years of major league play. Those years are measured in "service time," with one year being equal to 172 days out of the approximately 183 days on the MLB season calendar.

Because the gap between total days on the MLB calendar and a full year of service time is between 10 and 15 days, teams that hold down a prospect for the first 10 to 15 games of the big league season generally gain another year of control over that player, who will end their sixth season in the majors with something like five years and 160 days of service time.

For Rhys Hoskins... The Phillies would be forced to bring him to the majors in 2019 (signed his minor league deal in 14... so they have 5 years till he is rule 5 draft eligible which they won't allow to happen). They could bring him up next year in 18... and it will most likely be 10-15 games in... so they get an extra year of control.


Its all rather complex... and I don't understand every nuance of the contract length with MLB minors/rookies.

Either way, this season is totally F'ked we are on pace to lose 100 games and this will mean the manager will lose his job for sure. It appears that we could use a veteran to bring this unruly club house under control (Chase Utley anyone?) and a fresh management staff.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

1. It's actually a 7 year contract when a player is drafted to a minor league deal. After that 5 years the player becomes eligible for the rule 5 draft. 4 years for a player drafted from a 4 year college. If not drafted in the rule 5 or added to the 40-man roster to be protected from it, the player is still under contract until that 7 year mark or they are released. After that he becomes a free agent.

2.A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).

3. According to MLB rules, players become eligible for free agency—that is, free to field competitive bids for their services, sign with any team that wants them and (presumably) cash in on their true market value—after six full years of major league play. Those years are measured in "service time," with one year being equal to 172 days out of the approximately 183 days on the MLB season calendar.

Because the gap between total days on the MLB calendar and a full year of service time is between 10 and 15 days, teams that hold down a prospect for the first 10 to 15 games of the big league season generally gain another year of control over that player, who will end their sixth season in the majors with something like five years and 160 days of service time.

For Rhys Hoskins... The Phillies would be forced to bring him to the majors in 2019 (signed his minor league deal in 14... so they have 5 years till he is rule 5 draft eligible which they won't allow to happen). They could bring him up next year in 18... and it will most likely be 10-15 games in... so they get an extra year of control.


Its all rather complex... and I don't understand every nuance of the contract length with MLB minors/rookies.

Either way, this season is totally F'ked we are on pace to lose 100 games and this will mean the manager will lose his job for sure. It appears that we could use a veteran to bring this unruly club house under control (Chase Utley anyone?) and a fresh management staff.

Changing management works for me!

 

[jvett77]

1. It's actually a 7 year contract when a player is drafted to a minor league deal. After that 5 years the player becomes eligible for the rule 5 draft. 4 years for a player drafted from a 4 year college. If not drafted in the rule 5 or added to the 40-man roster to be protected from it, the player is still under contract until that 7 year mark or they are released. After that he becomes a free agent.

2.A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).

3. According to MLB rules, players become eligible for free agency—that is, free to field competitive bids for their services, sign with any team that wants them and (presumably) cash in on their true market value—after six full years of major league play. Those years are measured in "service time," with one year being equal to 172 days out of the approximately 183 days on the MLB season calendar.

Because the gap between total days on the MLB calendar and a full year of service time is between 10 and 15 days, teams that hold down a prospect for the first 10 to 15 games of the big league season generally gain another year of control over that player, who will end their sixth season in the majors with something like five years and 160 days of service time.

For Rhys Hoskins... The Phillies would be forced to bring him to the majors in 2019 (signed his minor league deal in 14... so they have 5 years till he is rule 5 draft eligible which they won't allow to happen). They could bring him up next year in 18... and it will most likely be 10-15 games in... so they get an extra year of control.


Its all rather complex... and I don't understand every nuance of the contract length with MLB minors/rookies.

Either way, this season is totally F'ked we are on pace to lose 100 games and this will mean the manager will lose his job for sure. It appears that we could use a veteran to bring this unruly club house under control (Chase Utley anyone?) and a fresh management staff.

Frizzle, thanks for taking the time review the MLB rules on contracts and eligibility. I just think the whole situation is a disaster when a team plays by these rules. If Hoskins were brought up now, for example, and he went berserk at the plate, it seems like they should have the right to sign him to long term contract. I don't get it or don't want to get it.

 

[jvett77]

Changing management works for me!

After last night's fiasco with three guys getting thrown out at second, I agree that maybe the Phils do need a new manager. I like the agressiveness on the bases but when you see an outfielder with a proven arm and don't make adjustments in the game, it's like someone's asleep.

 

[jvett77]

Cozens hit two tonight (21). Bring him up and we'll have balls flying out of the Bank along with the strikeouts. Phillies just don't mind strike outs and 3 run games.